Thanks For Nothing, Hhof
- Thread starter Bring Back Bucky
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While Don Cherry was exaggerating a little bit Saturday night, he was right to a certain extent when he said there hasn't been a goal scorer who could hit like him, and there hasn't been a hitter who could score like him. While I could list many players from yesteryear who could (Howe, Lindsay and Richard come to mind) over the last 25-30 years, there hasn't been a player who combined goal scoring and hitting. He could carry his team on his back. He was clutch in the playoffs. (Witness his play in 1991). His play in 1994 is one of the finest displays of skill and sheer determination I've ever seen. He's a four-time second team all-star, one of the most respected and feared players over the last 20 years, and a defining player in his generation.JaymzB said:
Anderson deserves to be there, too. A perennial clutch performer. Played a key role on six Stanley Cup champions. But Cam deserves it more.
Anderson definitely should be in the HHOF. His regular season stats are borderline... or were before they induction of Gilles, Neely, etc... although he did put up a respectable number of GWG (~80, I believe). His playoff stats are what make his exclusion, so far, a joke. Going partly from memory, he is 4th all-time in points (214) and 5th in goals (93 including 17 game winners with 5 of those in OT). I know he also received some serious Conn Smythe consideration during one of the Cup wins.
Bernie Federko as a Hall of Famer still makes no sense.
He's the Bill Mazeroski of the Hockey Hall.
He's the Bill Mazeroski of the Hockey Hall.
If you go by precedent, then Anderson deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
He is more deserving than guys like Neely, Federko, and Gillies.
He is more deserving than guys like Neely, Federko, and Gillies.
arrbez said:
How about Orr?
This begs the question - which skater is in the Hall with the lowest number of seasons played?
JCD
Registered User
I would say no.
I would go a step further and say that a lot of the players currently in the Hall don't really belong there.
IMO, the Hall of Fame should be reserved for those players that you look back and say "remember when he was playing", the guys you tell your kids you had a chance to see play live. Guys who changed the game and defined eras.
Just saying you need "X" number of points/goals to get in doesn't cut it for me. I never looked back and said "wow, I am glad I got to see Gartner play". I did say that about Bure though, even though Bure's career numbers are not as impressive.
Bottom line, I view the Hall of Fame as a highly subjective item that can't be quantified. Everybody's list of Hall of Famers is a bit different, but I know who I think are worthy and guys I wouldn't consider. That is why you put it to a vote. If a majority of people agree with me that so-and-so is a HOFer, then he should go in. If people disagree, I can't really be pissed because there is their own subjective opinion.
To me, Glenn doesn't make it. I see him as Messier's sidekick more than a HOFer. Messier is without a doubt in.
I would go a step further and say that a lot of the players currently in the Hall don't really belong there.
IMO, the Hall of Fame should be reserved for those players that you look back and say "remember when he was playing", the guys you tell your kids you had a chance to see play live. Guys who changed the game and defined eras.
Just saying you need "X" number of points/goals to get in doesn't cut it for me. I never looked back and said "wow, I am glad I got to see Gartner play". I did say that about Bure though, even though Bure's career numbers are not as impressive.
Bottom line, I view the Hall of Fame as a highly subjective item that can't be quantified. Everybody's list of Hall of Famers is a bit different, but I know who I think are worthy and guys I wouldn't consider. That is why you put it to a vote. If a majority of people agree with me that so-and-so is a HOFer, then he should go in. If people disagree, I can't really be pissed because there is their own subjective opinion.
To me, Glenn doesn't make it. I see him as Messier's sidekick more than a HOFer. Messier is without a doubt in.
That's a pretty poor appraisal of his talents. Anderson and Messier had a lot of chemistry (probably more so than even Gretzky and Kurri) and made each other better, Anderson wasn't along for the ride as you seem to be implying.JCD said:
Also, you have to remember that earlier in his career, Messier was prone to being somewhat inconsistent and spending undue amounts of time in the penalty box. Anderson was still able to do his thing even when Messier wasn't playing well / on the ice.
Darz
Registered User
arrbez said:
Neely didn't open any doors - players with short, dominant careers have always been inducted. Dickie Moore, Bobby Bauer, Ace Bailey, Hobey Baker, Ken Dryden, etc. - the HHOF has always recognized players like this.
As an aside, Bernie Federko is becoming the most under-rated player ever. People talk about the guy like he was some 70-point hack/average player who never did much of anything. He was top-10 in scoring 5 times, one of the top 5 or so playmakers in the league for the better part of a decade, and one of only a few players to score 1000 points with the same team. Top-15 in all-time NHL scoring when he retired, and he could have played a couple more seasons had he wanted to - he was only 33 and scored nearly 60 points the previous season.
Compare Federko's career with a guy like Darryl Sittler, who had the good fortune to spend most of his career in a glamour market as opposed to St. Louis, and there isn't much difference at all. But no-one criticizes Sittler's induction while Federko has become some sort of joke. He's not the greatest selection ever, but he's far from the worst.
MS said:
You cant compare Federenko to Sittler. Federenko played in the run and gun West in the 80's where 1000 points wont win you the Dino Chicarello award much less status as a real NHL star. He was the equivalent of a 600 point guy in the east ie Mats Naslund maybe.
Sittler was in a handful of top centers for 10 years. Did Federnko ever play for Team Canada in a Canada Cup (in fact the greatest Team Canada ever)?
reckoning
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- Jan 4, 2005
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chooch said:
If Sittler played the exact same career in St. Louis instead of Toronto, I`m not sure he`d be in the Hall. I also felt that Lanny McDonald was the Leafs best player in the 70s while Sittler and Salming got most of the credit. Sure enough the team started to fall apart after he was traded, even though the other two were still there.
Sittler playing on Team Canada in `76 shouldn`t be much of a factor. Rogie Vachon played on that same team and was arguably their MVP after Orr. Rogie`s not in the Hall.
Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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Anderson has gotten the shaft for sure. I dont understand but IMO I think a lot of it has to do with his off ice behaviour. But hey a lot of guys were terrible off ice people and are in there. Anderson is the poster boy for clutch goals. Even his stint with the Leafs he was still pretty good. Yes he was overshadowed by a very great cast of Oilers but he was one of those great guys. He played on two Canada Cups 6 Stanley Cup winners and has 498 career goals. All I can say is who's daughter did he sleep with on the HOF Commitee that's keeping him off?
And Sittler is a HOFer no doubt. Very good player for more than a decade. Rogie Vachon to me is arguably the best player not in the Hall along with Sergei Makarov. Neely couldnt hold Makarov's jock!
And Sittler is a HOFer no doubt. Very good player for more than a decade. Rogie Vachon to me is arguably the best player not in the Hall along with Sergei Makarov. Neely couldnt hold Makarov's jock!
MS said:
True, perhaps it didn't come out right
Before the Neely induction, there were threads and threads on here about which current players were HOF worthy, and whatever. I'd say about 50% of people felt that Lindros shouldn't be in the hall when he retires (I use Lindros because I think he's the best parallel to Neely). With Neely now in, I don't see how anyone can justify Lindros's exclusion, if we're simply going by a low-water mark. By the same token, I think you can make a strong case for Bure's inclusion as well now that Neely is in, although I doubt many would have said Bure was a HOF'er 2 years ago
I think it has more to do with his contentious relationship with the media during his career than with anything relating to his 'extracurricular activities' (which are likely not as bad as some others in the Hall, just things like unpaid child support are more public).Big Phil said:
chooch said:
Jeez.
We've been through this before. Here were my posts at the time:
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=2904680#post2904680
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=2906930#post2906930
AGAIN, hopefully for the last time, the league played a balanced schedule pre-1981. Federko and Sittler played in the same division, not that it mattered.
In 1981-82, Campbell Conference teams (excluding Edmonton) averaged 306 goals. Wales Conference teams averaged 327.
In 1982-83, Campbell Conference teams averaged 304 goals. Wales teams averaged 302.
In 1983-84, Campbell Conference teams averaged 308 goals. Wales teams averaged 309.
In 1984-85, Campbell Conference teams averaged 309 goals. Wales teams averaged 304.
In 1985-86, Campbell Conference teams averaged 308 goals. Wales teams averaged 315.
And so on.
If anything, the Wales Conference was higher-scoring than the Campbell when you take Edmonton out of the picture and just look at the other 20 teams. To suggest an 1100-point player in the West is a 600 point player in the East is completely Pejorative Slured. Give it a rest.
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