Teams not granted expansion

Cropduster

Registered User
Aug 22, 2004
1,154
1
California
does anyone remember or have a link to which cities were bidding for teams back when Minnesota, Atlanta, Columbus, and Nashville got their awarded franchises? The city's who tried but didnt get them?
 

Jets4Life

Registered User
Dec 25, 2003
7,191
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Westward Ho, Alberta
I wouldn't mind seeing a team in Houston. The WHA Aeros were relatively sucessful in the 70's, and they have a good history of supporting minor league hockey.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
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I wouldn't mind seeing a team in Houston. The WHA Aeros were relatively sucessful in the 70's, and they have a good history of supporting minor league hockey.
Houston would almost certainly have gotten a team in the last round of expansion if they had had an appropriate venue at the time - the Summit (later the Compaq Center, and now home to the Lakewood Church mega church) was built in 1975 and only seated 15K for hockey. The Toyota Center (new home of the NBA Rockets) was not even in the planning stages back then, and didn't open until late 2003.

That apparently was not a factor in the rejection of Houston, the nation's fourth-largest city with the 11th-largest TV market.
"Houston has the demographics and the television market, all the ingredients that are so essential," McMullen said. "But I think the league just did not wish to commit themselves to play in the Summit."
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,841
Durham, NC
Wha..? Who....? Where....? :dunno:

Hampton Roads has a decent minor league hockey tradition - they lasted some 11 years in the ECHL as the Hampton Roads Admirals from 1989 until 2000 when they bolted for the AHL and changed names to the Norfolk Admirals. Prior to that, the Hampton/Norfolk area has been home to several teams - in roughly chronological order:

Tidewater Wings (AHL) 1971-1972
Virginia Wings (AHL) 1972-1975
Hampton Gulls (SHL) 1974-1977
Tidewater Sharks (SHL) 1975-1977
Hampton Gulls (AHL) 1977-1978
Hampton Aces (NEHL) 1978-1979
Hampton Aces (EHL) 1979-1981
Hampton Roads Gulls (ACHL) 1982-1983
Hampton Roads Admirals (ECHL) 1989-2000
Norfolk Admirals (AHL) 2000-present
 

EbencoyE

Registered User
Nov 26, 2006
1,958
5
Hampton Roads has a decent minor league hockey tradition - they lasted some 11 years in the ECHL as the Hampton Roads Admirals from 1989 until 2000 when they bolted for the AHL and changed names to the Norfolk Admirals. Prior to that, the Hampton/Norfolk area has been home to several teams - in roughly chronological order:

Tidewater Wings (AHL) 1971-1972
Virginia Wings (AHL) 1972-1975
Hampton Gulls (SHL) 1974-1977
Tidewater Sharks (SHL) 1975-1977
Hampton Gulls (AHL) 1977-1978
Hampton Aces (NEHL) 1978-1979
Hampton Aces (EHL) 1979-1981
Hampton Roads Gulls (ACHL) 1982-1983
Hampton Roads Admirals (ECHL) 1989-2000
Norfolk Admirals (AHL) 2000-present

Did they have an arena in the planning stages when they put in the bid? I assume the league probably thought they were too close to Washington or the market wasn't big enough.

Wasn't Hampton Roads vying for the Washington Nationals' new stadium to be built there too? Thought I they were one of the choices along with Alexandria.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,841
Durham, NC
Did they have an arena in the planning stages when they put in the bid? I assume the league probably thought they were too close to Washington or the market wasn't big enough.

Wasn't Hampton Roads vying for the Washington Nationals' new stadium to be built there too? Thought I they were one of the choices along with Alexandria.

I believe they did - a 20,000 seat arena in downtown Norfolk just north of the current Norfolk Scope where the Admirals currently play. If memory serves, the team (but not the arena) was to be owned by George Shinn and would have been called the Hampton Roads Rhinos.

Edit: Found this link which discusses the arena - looks like it would have seated 18,500 for hockey and would have cost around $143 million. Some interesting stuff in general in here.

http://www.facilityplanners.com/news/pdf/Rhinos 101.pdf
 
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Gnashville

HFBoards Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2003
13,684
3,510
Crossville
http://www.canoe.ca/97NHLExpansion/zexex5.html

Houston (3 bids; only one got to the final round)
Oklahoma City (got to the final round)
Hampton Roads, VA
Hamilton, Ontario
Raleigh-Durham, NC (offer rescinded when Karamanos announced the Hurricanes would move to Raleigh)

Interesting Winnipeg, Hartford, and Quebec DID NOT put in Bids and did not get teams. Funny how everyone thinks they should have been granted teams without even applying for franchises. Bettman just hates them I guess
 
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Weary

Registered User
Jul 1, 2003
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0
Interesting Winnipeg, Hartford, and Quebec DID NOT put in Bids and did not get teams. Funny how everyone thinks they should have been granted teams without even applying for franchises. Bettman just hates them I guess
The call for expansion bids went out in June of 1996. The Nordiques left Quebec in 1995. The Jets left Winnipeg in 1996. The Whalers left Hartford in 1997.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
The call for expansion bids went out in June of 1996. The Nordiques left Quebec in 1995. The Jets left Winnipeg in 1996. The Whalers left Hartford in 1997.
Nothing was stopping Winnipeg or Quebec.
 

Weary

Registered User
Jul 1, 2003
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0
Nothing was stopping Winnipeg or Quebec.
No. But given the timing, I think it's easy to understand why they did not (and obvious to understand why Hartford could not). The fact that none of the three submitted an expansion bid is, when you get down to it, not that interesting.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
No. But given the timing, I think it's easy to understand why they did not (and obvious to understand why Hartford could not). The fact that none of the three submitted an expansion bid is, when you get down to it, not that interesting.
Even if any of them had, it would have been a complete non-starter. None of them had an acceptable arena and none of them had any plans in place to build one.

Houston was nixed because of the Summit - Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hartford would have been likewise because of the Winnipeg Arena, Le Colisée, and the Hartford Shopping Center.
 

HF_Rangers

Registered User
Jan 16, 2004
762
8
Winston-Salem, NC
If you check Google Groups, you can find some old articles on expansion. I'll dig a few up right now.

EDIT: Here's some discussions from over 10 years ago:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....98d3ecdaa2615c6?q=NHL+Expansion&lnk=ol&hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....=NHL+Expansion&rnum=21&hl=en#d1fcc089da823367
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....nsion+Milwaukee&rnum=1&hl=en#6265ef256e0315ae
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....nsion+Milwaukee&rnum=4&hl=en#0ffd58bcbc0ea334

As an added bonus for someone who asked about Cleveland, here's a rant from 1985.http://groups.google.com/group/net....sion+Cleveland&rnum=10&hl=en#cea17886e781d710

Cleveland never applied for expansion as far as I know, even in the early stages of the 1990's. The Gunds took their share of the North Stars and created the San Jose Sharks, even though they owned the Cleveland Cavaliers and were building a new arena. After the Barons debacle of the 1970's, I don't think Cleveland would ever get a sniff of the NHL, quite sadly. At least Columbus has a team to call their own, I think that was the best choice for pro hockey in the Buckeye State.
 
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Hawker14

Registered User
Oct 27, 2004
3,084
0
Interesting Winnipeg, Hartford, and Quebec DID NOT put in Bids and did not get teams. Funny how everyone thinks they should have been granted teams without even applying for franchises. Bettman just hates them I guess

Yeah that is interesting.

It's also interesting Bettman didn't go a full year of a lockout in '94 to get a salary cap and revenue sharing to help Winnipeg, Hartford or Quebec.

He sure as heck did ten years later to keep bottom feeders like Nashville around though. Pretty pathetic that even with a $ 12 million revenue sharing cheque bumping up the payroll, paid attend can't even reach 14,000 per game at the Nashville Arena, with prices among the lowest in the league. Now, due to lack of fan support, the team can leave in 2008.

No wonder no company will risk putting their name on the arena.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
Yeah that is interesting.

It's also interesting Bettman didn't go a full year of a lockout in '94 to get a salary cap and revenue sharing to help Winnipeg, Hartford or Quebec.
Actually Bettman wanted a salary cap in '94 and very well might have led the lockout for a full year, but the Big Market owners cut a deal over Bettman's objections in 1995. That was why GB got the supermajority clause put into his contract when it was renewed - to prevent the same thing from happening again.

But why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good anti-GB rant.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
28,858
8,112
Actually Bettman wanted a salary cap in '94 and very well might have led the lockout for a full year, but the Big Market owners cut a deal over Bettman's objections in 1995. That was why GB got the supermajority clause put into his contract when it was renewed - to prevent the same thing from happening again.

But why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good anti-GB rant.
You forgot to include, "and a chance to bash Nashville/Carolina/Phoenix while touting how Winnipeg would allegedly do better."
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
185,662
37,457
Could you imagine these boards if Hampton Roads, Virginia got an NHL team?
 

Foy

Registered User
Jun 6, 2006
20,876
0
Wha..? Who....? Where....? :dunno:
It's the largest metropolitan area in the United States without a top-level professional sports team.

It's the cities of Newport News, Virginia Beach, Hampton, Norfolk, and Portsmouth all blended together.
 

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