Team toughness

eco's bones

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If either one of these slackers are on the team this year JG needs to be launched into the sun..

It's up to the Rangers whether they want to give either or even one of them another shot.....but yeah they found themselves in the AHL because they were playing shit hockey....and if they don't fix that then there's no point them being on the team. My remark was made because I'm skeptical. In Smith's case I think a lot of posters here believe he's paid the price and learned his lesson and there is problem I have with that. First off it's too easy of a judgement to make--we won't know if he's learned any lesson at all until improved play shows that he has. His play in Hartford after his demotion suggests to me that he didn't learn anything--at least not right away. One would think that he would have been very useful to Wolfpack but -11 in 11 games with 2 assists and a fight with a rookie teammate in which he broke his hand comes across to me like he wasn't or didn't get the message. Maybe he has the message now and the Rangers will give him a second chance--I don't know....but I'm not counting on him.

The other thing is the Rangers always hit the free agent market in July and they will again this year and they will pick up at least one NHL vet d-man--you can almost count on it. Brendan Smith if he's serious cannot f*** around this time around. He makes the team on merit--not because he's got a bit cap hit--this year.

Beleskey's had two shit years in a row. That's always bad. I actually liked the way he played in the final game of the season against the Flyers but he's going to have to do better---a lot better.

A new coaching regime will come in giving player's a clean slate but almost always it means you have to earn your place.
 
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NYR

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While Beleskey may deserve a shot only because he's new to the team, Smith is just more egg on JG's face and anyone else who is expecting him to turn into any kind of asset for this team moving FWD..
I like my eggs fried in olive oil with a crispy bottom.

This isn't a fkn rehab.

Smith is a rotten eggs ;)
 

Mikos87

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While Beleskey may deserve a shot only because he's new to the team, Smith is just more egg on JG's face and anyone else who is expecting him to turn into any kind of asset for this team moving FWD..
I like my eggs fried in olive oil with a crispy bottom.

This isn't a fkn rehab.

Smith is a rotten eggs ;)

I don't know bro, I agree Smith egged himself and the organization last off-season... but if Andy McDonald can turn it around... Smith has a decent chance to. Dude's gotta drop like 30 pounds... and you hope he started a month ago because it takes a while to lose that kind of weight.
 

egelband

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Sep 6, 2008
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It's up to the Rangers whether they want to give either or even one of them another shot.....but yeah they found themselves in the AHL because they were playing **** hockey....and if they don't fix that then there's no point them being on the team. My remark was made because I'm skeptical. In Smith's case I think a lot of posters here believe he's paid the price and learned his lesson and there is problem I have with that. First off it's too easy of a judgement to make--we won't know if he's learned any lesson at all until improved play shows that he has. His play in Hartford after his demotion suggests to me that he didn't learn anything--at least not right away. One would think that he would have been very useful to Wolfpack but -11 in 11 games with 2 assists and a fight with a rookie teammate in which he broke his hand comes across to me like he wasn't or didn't get the message. Maybe he has the message now and the Rangers will give him a second chance--I don't know....but I'm not counting on him.

The other thing is the Rangers always hit the free agent market in July and they will again this year and they will pick up at least one NHL vet d-man--you can almost count on it. Brendan Smith if he's serious cannot **** around this time around. He makes the team on merit--not because he's got a bit cap hit--this year.

Beleskey's had two **** years in a row. That's always bad. I actually liked the way he played in the final game of the season against the Flyers but he's going to have to do better---a lot better.

A new coaching regime will come in giving player's a clean slate but almost always it means you have to earn your place.
Smith has used up his mulligan. Beleskey has no history and the Rangers aren’t even paying him so he’s found money if he does anything. Anyhow hopefully they appreciate their shot and provide value. Otherwise i suspect JG will have no problem dumping either. Though smith could be booger-hard to get rid of.
 
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East Coast Bias

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Feb 28, 2014
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While Beleskey may deserve a shot only because he's new to the team, Smith is just more egg on JG's face and anyone else who is expecting him to turn into any kind of asset for this team moving FWD..
I like my eggs fried in olive oil with a crispy bottom.

This isn't a fkn rehab.

Smith is a rotten eggs ;)

There is no benefit in holding a grudge the length of his contract. It’s stupid.

It’s a new season. If Smith shows up in good shape and ready, you play him. If you get a chance to move him, you move him.
 
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If Beleskey actually becomes something, that's fine. But adding Beleskey and even if they manage to salvage something from Smith won't make this team tough. It's like suggesting that adding Hagelin to a team doesn't make that team all the sudden fast.

For this team to be tough would require a change in mindset and attitude—as well as some adjustment in personnel.
 

True Blue

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For this team to be tough would require a change in mindset and attitude—as well as some adjustment in personnel.
A combination of all 3, Singin'. It all starts with the tone from the top and the choice for the next coach that comes on. That coach will then need to establish the mentality and the expectations. Then it becomes a combination of drafting such players and importing such players via trades & free agency.

But the tone from the top sets it all up. Look at the way the Rangers played under Torts and how relatively quickly that identity was dismantled under the guidance of AV.
 
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But the tone from the top sets it all up. Look at the way the Rangers played under Torts and how relatively quickly that identity was dismantled under the guidance of AV.

Exactly, this hire will go a long way in seeing where this team is heading and what it will be. JG mentioned the need to be harder to play against and a lack of leadership, a lot remains to be seen.
 

NYR

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I don't know bro, I agree Smith egged himself and the organization last off-season... but if Andy McDonald can turn it around... Smith has a decent chance to. Dude's gotta drop like 30 pounds... and you hope he started a month ago because it takes a while to lose that kind of weight.

All due respect Ad but this isn't Byfuglien we're talking about here where he used to show up out of shape and overweight but still got the job done.

This is Brendan Smith who has scored all of 17 goals and hasn't played a single noteworthy season in 8 years.

Now he shows up a complete train wreck before the ink is even dry on the contract.

How many years does it take to call a spade a spade?
I'm just not as forgivng for complete incompetence.
 
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Bleed Ranger Blue

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Jul 18, 2006
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All due respect Ad but this isn't Byfuglien we're talking about here where he used to show up out of shape and overweight but still got the job done.

This is Brendan Smith who has scored all of 17 goals and hasn't played a single noteworthy season in 8 years.

Now he shows up a complete train wreck before the ink is even dry on the contract.

How many years does it take to call a spade a spade?
I'm just not as forgivng for complete incompetence.

You're also making stuff up about the totality of his career. Not very fair to cast his entire NHL career as a failure in light of the disaster he provided last season.

Look, I am skeptical of any player that sacrifices their commitment as soon as they get some sort of payday. But the reality is this team is short on defensemen with NHL experience. Smith will be given a chance and rightfully so. The season he just had can either serve as a big-time wake up call, or not. Either way, the Rangers are in a position where they almost have to give him another shot.
 

Bleed Ranger Blue

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Exactly, this hire will go a long way in seeing where this team is heading and what it will be. JG mentioned the need to be harder to play against and a lack of leadership, a lot remains to be seen.

The mindset element is perhaps the most important thing. The argument that bringing in a player or two with a history of physicality will go a long way in fixing the problem is a flimsy one. Theres a long way to go before we get a feel of what the roster will even look like next season, but a silver lining is you're going to have a ton of players with a lot to prove.

You could write an entire thesis of what has gone wrong since 2015 - but one of the things near the top of the list was the leadership group/coach/overall message getting stale over the years. New blood changes mindsets.
 
Feb 27, 2002
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The mindset element is perhaps the most important thing. The argument that bringing in a player or two with a history of physicality will go a long way in fixing the problem is a flimsy one. Theres a long way to go before we get a feel of what the roster will even look like next season, but a silver lining is you're going to have a ton of players with a lot to prove.

You could write an entire thesis of what has gone wrong since 2015 - but one of the things near the top of the list was the leadership group/coach/overall message getting stale over the years. New blood changes mindsets.

A lot of it will depend on the kind of coach they hire and the philosophy he brings with him. Right now there seems to be two balls in the air—the next coach and the beginning trying to build a framework for what this roster will be next year and moving forward. Ideally, there would only be one ball in the air and that is building roster that can be most successful playing the coach's system and reflect the coach's vision for how his team plays.
 

NYR

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You're also making stuff up about the totality of his career. Not very fair to cast his entire NHL career as a failure in light of the disaster he provided last season.

Look, I am skeptical of any player that sacrifices their commitment as soon as they get some sort of payday. But the reality is this team is short on defensemen with NHL experience. Smith will be given a chance and rightfully so. The season he just had can either serve as a big-time wake up call, or not. Either way, the Rangers are in a position where they almost have to give him another shot.

Not really sure what stands out at you during his career but he could barely crack the Wings line up and become a regular over 8 years and they had a terrible D.

Admit it or not.
This is one of the worst signings of all time..
 

GeorgeKaplan

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Not really sure what stands out at you during his career but he could barely crack the Wings line up and become a regular over 8 years and they had a terrible D.

Admit it or not.
This is one of the worst signings of all time..
Barely crack the Wings lineup? What?
 

NYR

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Barely crack the Wings lineup? What?

Correct!

Here's a little example of what I'm talking about.
It's a little dated but nothing has changed.


hi-res-183985548-mikkel-boedker-of-the-phoenix-coyotes-controls-the-puck_crop_north.jpg

Gregory Shamus/Getty Images

Brendan Smith: Breaking Down Why the Detroit Red Wings' D-Man Is Odd Man out

ISAAC SMITH
OCTOBER 20, 2013
Brendan Smith is just the latest Detroit Red Wings defenseman to struggle to become accustomed to the NHL. But in those struggles, Smith is proving why he is the odd man out when the Red Wings are healthy on defense.
The Red Wings have a had a tradition, it seems, among their defensemen on the roster now. Struggle for a year or two and then start coming into their own in terms of potential.
Brendan Smith has certainly fulfilled the first part of that paradigm in his struggles over the first 53 regular-season games, but he has yet to come into his own, potential-wise.
Smith's lack of on-ice production has been exhibited to no end this season. He is now a minus-seven in five games with no points scored after his minus-three performance on Saturday night against the Phoenix Coyotes.
But it isn't just statistics that are keeping Smith on the bench for four out of the first nine games this season, but how he is getting beaten defensively.
Smith is beating himself by his lack of defensive awareness and his poor positioning.
Lack of Defensive Awareness
Simply put, defensive awareness separates an average defenseman from a good one.
sddefault.jpg

In the case of Smith, his defensive awareness was solid for the first part of the play shown above, as he was able to get the puck out of his zone. Smith took the hit to make a play to Henrik Zetterberg. But Zetterberg's dump-in was blocked by the skate of the linesman and Lauri Korpikoski picked the puck up and sent Martin Hanzal in on a breakaway.
Hanzal scored, but the goal is irrelevant because the pass should have never gotten to him.
Freezing the frame right as Zetterberg goes to dump the puck into the zone, one can see that there are four Red Wings and four Coyotes in the picture.
The other two players—Smith and Hanzal—are back toward the Red Wings blue line. Smith is not actively engaged in the play going over the Phoenix line, so why not shadow Hanzal to prevent the stretch pass?
Smith does no such thing and Hanzal has a walk-in goal.
While it would be tempting to blame the goal on Kyle Quincey, who jumped into the play, the onus is usually on the other defenseman to cover any stretch passes that would come up the ice.
Instead, Smith has no idea where his man is.
Lack of Defensive Positioning
While that goal by Hanzal could have classified as poor awareness and poor positioning, Smith's positioning (or lack thereof) on the fourth goal—the insurance goal for all intents and purposes—was even worse than it was on Hanzal's game-winner.
sddefault.jpg

David Moss circled out from behind the net with the puck, with Smith following him all the way to the blue line. This came about because Smith had switched positions with Johan Franzen when Franzen went with his man to the corner, but the young defenseman never made an effort to get back toward the goal.
Smith's primary job is to help out his goaltender by clearing rebounds from the front of the net. It isn't to follow a man out to the point and stay there with him.
What Smith didn't do initially wasn't going to be a problem until he didn't move back toward the front of the net.
Moss let the shot go from the point and Mikkel Boedker got the rebound and shot it at the net. Jimmy Howard made that save, but no one cleared the rebound and Mike Ribeiro potted the rebound.
This wasn't the first or second time Smith was out of position, as he followed his man to the point on the second Phoenix goal as well.
Conclusion
Brendan Smith has a lot of growing to do. That much is certain.
But what isn't certain is how he will continue to grow once Niklas Kronwall gets back from injury. This is because Smith has played himself out of the starting defense pairings and into the healthy scratch role.
If he can't start contributing in his own end—let alone the offensive end, where he has no points either—he cannot play in the NHL on any pairing.
Not to say that fans should give up support on Smith—they shouldn't because he has a lot of growing to do—but it will be a time-sensitive issue for the former first-round pick.
Smith is just the next of many Red Wings defensemen like Jonathan Ericsson and Jakub Kindl to struggle in his first couple seasons at the NHL level.
 
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GeorgeKaplan

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Dec 19, 2011
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Correct!

Here's a little example of what I'm talking about.
It's a little dated but nothing has changed.


hi-res-183985548-mikkel-boedker-of-the-phoenix-coyotes-controls-the-puck_crop_north.jpg

Gregory Shamus/Getty Images

Brendan Smith: Breaking Down Why the Detroit Red Wings' D-Man Is Odd Man out

ISAAC SMITH
OCTOBER 20, 2013
Brendan Smith is just the latest Detroit Red Wings defenseman to struggle to become accustomed to the NHL. But in those struggles, Smith is proving why he is the odd man out when the Red Wings are healthy on defense.
The Red Wings have a had a tradition, it seems, among their defensemen on the roster now. Struggle for a year or two and then start coming into their own in terms of potential.
Brendan Smith has certainly fulfilled the first part of that paradigm in his struggles over the first 53 regular-season games, but he has yet to come into his own, potential-wise.
Smith's lack of on-ice production has been exhibited to no end this season. He is now a minus-seven in five games with no points scored after his minus-three performance on Saturday night against the Phoenix Coyotes.
But it isn't just statistics that are keeping Smith on the bench for four out of the first nine games this season, but how he is getting beaten defensively.
Smith is beating himself by his lack of defensive awareness and his poor positioning.
Lack of Defensive Awareness
Simply put, defensive awareness separates an average defenseman from a good one.
sddefault.jpg

In the case of Smith, his defensive awareness was solid for the first part of the play shown above, as he was able to get the puck out of his zone. Smith took the hit to make a play to Henrik Zetterberg. But Zetterberg's dump-in was blocked by the skate of the linesman and Lauri Korpikoski picked the puck up and sent Martin Hanzal in on a breakaway.
Hanzal scored, but the goal is irrelevant because the pass should have never gotten to him.
Freezing the frame right as Zetterberg goes to dump the puck into the zone, one can see that there are four Red Wings and four Coyotes in the picture.
The other two players—Smith and Hanzal—are back toward the Red Wings blue line. Smith is not actively engaged in the play going over the Phoenix line, so why not shadow Hanzal to prevent the stretch pass?
Smith does no such thing and Hanzal has a walk-in goal.
While it would be tempting to blame the goal on Kyle Quincey, who jumped into the play, the onus is usually on the other defenseman to cover any stretch passes that would come up the ice.
Instead, Smith has no idea where his man is.
Lack of Defensive Positioning
While that goal by Hanzal could have classified as poor awareness and poor positioning, Smith's positioning (or lack thereof) on the fourth goal—the insurance goal for all intents and purposes—was even worse than it was on Hanzal's game-winner.
sddefault.jpg

David Moss circled out from behind the net with the puck, with Smith following him all the way to the blue line. This came about because Smith had switched positions with Johan Franzen when Franzen went with his man to the corner, but the young defenseman never made an effort to get back toward the goal.
Smith's primary job is to help out his goaltender by clearing rebounds from the front of the net. It isn't to follow a man out to the point and stay there with him.
What Smith didn't do initially wasn't going to be a problem until he didn't move back toward the front of the net.
Moss let the shot go from the point and Mikkel Boedker got the rebound and shot it at the net. Jimmy Howard made that save, but no one cleared the rebound and Mike Ribeiro potted the rebound.
This wasn't the first or second time Smith was out of position, as he followed his man to the point on the second Phoenix goal as well.
Conclusion
Brendan Smith has a lot of growing to do. That much is certain.
But what isn't certain is how he will continue to grow once Niklas Kronwall gets back from injury. This is because Smith has played himself out of the starting defense pairings and into the healthy scratch role.
If he can't start contributing in his own end—let alone the offensive end, where he has no points either—he cannot play in the NHL on any pairing.
Not to say that fans should give up support on Smith—they shouldn't because he has a lot of growing to do—but it will be a time-sensitive issue for the former first-round pick.
Smith is just the next of many Red Wings defensemen like Jonathan Ericsson and Jakub Kindl to struggle in his first couple seasons at the NHL level.
So he was being scratched occasionally when he was 53 games into his NHL career? Once he established himself he was a second pairing guy for them a lot more often than not
 

NYR

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So he was being scratched occasionally when he was 53 games into his NHL career? Once he established himself he was a second pairing guy for them a lot more often than not

George
He was a HS regularly right before he was traded!
 

Mikos87

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All due respect Ad but this isn't Byfuglien we're talking about here where he used to show up out of shape and overweight but still got the job done.

This is Brendan Smith who has scored all of 17 goals and hasn't played a single noteworthy season in 8 years.

Now he shows up a complete train wreck before the ink is even dry on the contract.

How many years does it take to call a spade a spade?
I'm just not as forgivng for complete incompetence.

I get you dude, but look at the alternatives. He's got a fair a shot as some of the scrubs that they've iced out there at the end. Kampfer, Sproul, Gilmour, O'Gara.

He's not the brightest guy, but when he's played a hard game, he was good. To your point, never for a season... but if he shows up in shape, and can skate like he used to then he's got a good of a shot as any bottom pair D in the org right now.
 

NYR

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I get what you're saying also but at the end of the day we need to bring in some competent "all business" type players, cut the dead weight out and get this team moving FWD..

Enough of the experiments already
 
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GeorgeKaplan

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Dec 19, 2011
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George
He was a HS regularly right before he was traded!
And he was one of the better defensemen here after we traded for him, which is why he got an extension. An extension I wasn’t thrilled with at the time and I’m still not thrilled with, but I get why he got a contract.
 

NYR

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And he was one of the better defensemen here after we traded for him, which is why he got an extension. An extension I wasn’t thrilled with at the time and I’m still not thrilled with, but I get why he got a contract.

Bro. He got a ridiculous contract based on 2 weeks of good play.
He wasn't anything special before that.

Eh. We'll see what happens come TC but if it were me, I'd bounce him.
 

Nopuckluck

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Dec 29, 2017
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Guys like Tom Wilson have no place in this league. I don’t want anyone like him on my team. :laugh::laugh::laugh: Hahahahaha
 

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