team rankings

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by arrbez, Jun 2, 2004.

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  1. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    hey, new here, and pretty excited to find a message board with people who know what they're talking about. moving on...

    this has probably been posted somewhere before, but i was wondering what everyone's rating of the teams would be, from 1 to 8. of course, it has to be on paper because there's no way to predict the outcome ofa single-game elimination.

    1. Canada
    Canada definitly has the deepest roster in the world (they probably could have made 2 teams). Like most of the other countries, they can put together 3 dangerous offensive lines. But unlike the other countries, they can put an absolute all star team on defense and in net as well. there's been a lot of complaining about the roster choices around the country, but i dont mind it (although i would have lecavalier in place of Gagne in a heartbeat). the roster would have been different if this were the olympics. but for an NHL ice surface, i think it's a great idea to bring guys like morrow, draper, doan and yzerman. it would have been nice to see primeau in place of maltby on the checking line, but they wanted to keep the chemestry of the doan-draper-maltby line from the world championships 2 years ago. I'm predicting Dany Heatly to be tournament MVP. I'm pretty dissapointed that they chickened out and didn't take bertuzzi. i would have loved to see him on a line with thornton and iginla over on the left. but oh well.

    2. Czech Republic
    The Czechs, I've noticed, aren't getting the respect they deserve. They have a good balance of offense and defense in their forward lines. A lot of people write off guys like jagr and havlat as headcases and whatever, but you've got to believe they'll show up in full force when they're playing for their country. with havlat, lang, jagr, hejduk, elias, straka, rucinsky, etc, they should be able to equal any team in the world for offense. And unlike Slovakia (which seems to be the sexy upset pick this year) they have a solid (although a little soft) defense corps, and a very good goaltender in Vokoun. I wouldn't trust Cechmanek or Prusek under pressure though. And as i said before, i think their defense can be exploited by a hard forecheck. Especially Tomas Kaberle. As a Leafs fan, he drives me nuts

    3. Sweden
    The Swedes have a good group of veteran stars to carry a lineup with a lot of younger players on it. But unlike Russia and the USA, the swedish stars are still very much in their prime. I think any country in the world should be scared of a team that can put alfredsson/sundin, forsberg, naslund, lidstrom and ohlund on the ice to start a game. And since the olympics 2 years ago, they've been able to get some scoring depth they never had before. the sedins have become decent NHL players, and freddy modin has looked awsome all year. They have some good very defensive-forwards (axelsson and holmstrom), and are very good at the top end of their defense. their weakness IMO is in their lower end defensemen, and especially in net. Tommy Salo is not the goaltender he used to be, and the other two are fairly unproven (i saw telqvist play in toronto this year, and he still needs a lot of work before he can win at this level). also, how is nylander not on the team? c'mon now...

    4. Russia
    Russia reminds me of the USA team in a lot of ways. they still have a lot of big names and bigtime talent, but much of the team was better 5 years ago. But unlike the USA, russia decided to include some young talent. obviously kovalchuk would be there, but it was nice to see them include ovechkin. so now we can all see what this kid can do before he gets the life sucked out of him as a washington capital. The defense is a little suspect at the bottom half, but should be solid enough, with a few guys who can really hit as well (kasparaitis, markov). They should have a fantastic powerplay, as fancy passing and big point shots seem to be a russian specialty. In net they look very solid (assuming they never have to play whoever their #3 is). Khabibulin and Nabokov are both top NHL goaltenders and have been playing pretty well under pressure these playoffs. In the end though, i dont think they'll have enough of a contribution from their 3rd and 4th lines to win it all

    5. USA
    The American roster was a bit of a head-scratcher to me, because i think they could have been a lot better off for now and the future by putting some young(er) talent on the team (scott gomez, mike york, mark parrish, John-Michael Liles, maybe even zach parise). Other than in net, it looks like leopold is the only player under 28 or whatever. This team can still score in bunches, but might a little slower than some of the other teams (brett hull is offically a stationary one-timer machine at this point of his career. seriously. all he does is take one timers.) it's nice to see my buddy craig conroy make it. i love that guy. they did bring a bunch of very good defensive forwards, so they look like a team that could sit on a lead very well. They have a solid defense corps, but some of those guys are absolutely too old (hatcher, chelios) to play against iginla, forsberg, jagr, sundin, hossa, and other strong, quick forwards (I can't wait for Iginla-Hatcher: round 2). the goaltending has potential, as conklin looked good at the worlds this year, but is innexperienced. Esche may or may not be playing because of injury, so i figure they'll bring dunham or maybe even john graham if he doesnt. I can't see them doing particularily well, because they're relying too heavily on thier veterans to keep up with the speedy young players of the world

    6. Slovakia
    This team will be the biggest mystery of the tournament, as they have the potential to score a ton of goals, and to have a ton scored on them at the same time. over the last few years slovakia has been producing some top NHL talent, but this is the first time they can put a contending team together. I think a lot of people are getting over-excited about the fact that another country has finally joined the ranks of the "contenders" in international play, and everyone is forgetting that there are some massive holes in this lineup. up front they look extremely well off, and should have no problems scoring goals. On defense they would be OK if they could program Chara to play all game. but they cant. and at some point, they're going to have some sub par talent on the ice against the best in the world. apart from Chara, they have nobody i would trust to play smart defensively in their own zone under pressure (although visnovsky will be great on the power play). As for the goaltending, the only one ive heard of is stana ( i think he plays in the AHL somewhere, but i cant be sure). this team should give everyone a run for their money, but isn't deep enough yet to win it all. but they're extremely young and will be a force for years to come

    7. Finland
    the Fins are always the hardest team to predict because they upset good teams like it's going out of style. on paper, they are lacking in offense like they are every year. But they always manage to keep games close with their tough checking style and solid defense. and with kiprusoff in net, i can see them giving Canada a bigger scare than usual. Up front they can only really put together one or maybe 2 strong offensive lines. but the finnish teams always have heart, and look for them to get big performances out of guys like ville nieminen and tuomo ruutu. On defense they have a decent core of NHL talent, but not nearly as good as the other teams. But i expect their defense to get a lot of support from backchecking forwards to even out the load. So on paper, they're the weakest of the "contenders", but i would actually bet on them in a game against slovakia or sweden. especially since finland has finally started to produce quality goaltenders in the last few years.

    8. Germany
    I'm not going to pretend to know anything about this team. the only players i've heard of are Sturm, Hecht, Marcel Goc, Christian Erhoff, Seidenberg, and Kolzig. and sturm and kolzig are the only ones who arent marginal NHL players at this point. what's annoying about the germans is that they always trap like crazy in international hockey, so we never beat them by as much as everyone thinks we should. But unless Kolzig plays out of his mind, i cant see them coming anywhere higher than 7th or 8th. they're the only team with no real shot at getting a medal.

    so that's my take on it, and i'm interested to see what everyone else thinks
     
  2. I would put Hecht with Sturm and Kolzig as succcesful NHL players.
     
  3. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    good eye, my mistake
     
  4. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    Fair assessment of the U.S. team, although I think you're mixing up slow and old. Derian Hatcher is not old, he is however not fleet of foot, and is coming off some severe injuries. That being said, he was a Norris Trophy finalist in the 2002/03 season season, and should be fully recovered by the time the World Cup starts, so on NHL sized ice, he could be an asset. Other than Hatcher, Miller and Hull are the only average skaters on the team. Chelios can still skate, and everyone else is above average to great.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  5. Sputnik

    Sputnik Registered User

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    one addl comment on team germany: the coach has changed, so may the system!

    but even that won´t change the fact, germany will finish 8th in the standings. that´s ok... :)
     
  6. ZBORNAJA

    ZBORNAJA Registered User

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    U didnt watch any russian games lately had u ? :rolleyes:
     
  7. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    haha, i think they'll be great. even valeri bure, who has milked so much money and fame out of that last name, is good on the PP
     
  8. wilka91*

    wilka91* Registered User

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    1.Sweden
    2.Russia
    3.Canada
    4.Czech Republic
    5.USA
    6.Finland
    7.Slovakia
    8.Germany
     
  9. Weltall

    Weltall Registered User

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    I rated each team's forwards, defenseman, and goalies on a scale of 1-8. the lower the better. too lazy to elaborate, but disagree if you wish.

    (Forward Rank + Defenseman Rank + Goalie Rank = Composite Score)
    1. Canada - 3 + 1 + 1 = 5
    2. Sweden - 1 + 2 + 6 = 9
    3. Russia - 4 + 5 + 2 = 11
    4. Czech Republic - 6 + 3 + 3 = 12
    5. United States - 5 + 4 + 5 = 14
    T-6. Finland - 7 + 6 + 4 = 17
    T-6. Slovakia - 2 + 7 + 8 = 17
    8. Germany - 8 + 8 + 7 = 23
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  10. Evgeny Oliker

    Evgeny Oliker Registered User

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    sorry, but i dont see sweden being better than russia. salo is not in the same category even as khabibulin and nabokov. as for defense they are equal. but i also dont see how you can say that sweden's offense is better than that of russia ? the swede forwards are in their prime and the russian forwards are not ? so basically kovalchuk(41 goals,best year), samsonov(see playoffs), kovalev(see playoffs), zhamnov(see playoffs), datsyuk(best season) are all not in their prime??? give me a break here, the russian forwards are as good if not better than the swedes. edge here is in goal so russia is better.
    then you also put czechs in front of the russians? again, i disagree because of goaltending...vokoun is great but he's no khabibulin yet. khaby has edge in experience and in recenty play.
    my rankings:
    1. CANADA
    2. RUSSIA
    3. CZECHS
    4. FINLAND(great goalie)
    5. U.S.
    6. SWEDEN
    7. SLOVAKIA
    8. GERMANY
     
  11. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    wow, sweden at #6 eh? i can see the swedes making a lot of noise this year, and i wouldnt have them any lower than 4th. and i would happily take the swedish forwards over the russian forwards. the russians might have a little more depth in scoring, but i think the swedes have better defensive forwards. but yeah, salo is nowhere near the level of khabibulin or nabokov anymore. that Belarussian head-shot 2 years ago sent him in a downward spiral
     
  12. Evgeny Oliker

    Evgeny Oliker Registered User

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    dont get me wrong, FORSBERG is my favorite player and i think the swedish forwards are as good as the russian forwards, maybe even a bit better in some aspects...but goaltending is key in hockey and so i see russia having the edge. FINLAND is very underestimated because they have a great goalie and their forwards although not the most talented, are tough and good on defense(nieminen, kapanen1,kapanen2, lehtinen, etc)
     
  13. stockwizard*

    stockwizard* Guest

    Sweden is soft and the Sedins are losers. If Sweden wins I will resign from this forum forever.
    Slovakia forwards>Canadian Forwards :huh: :shakehead
     
  14. SChan*

    SChan* Guest

    The thing is that the Swedes ALWAYS play great as a team. There's the difference with the Russian team. Russian star players are not known to play as a team, therefor Sweden gets my edge.
     
  15. mach777

    mach777 Registered User

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    aint no forsberg on the russian roster ;)
     
  16. mach777

    mach777 Registered User

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    I don't think sweden has the goaltending to win this.
     
  17. Evgeny Oliker

    Evgeny Oliker Registered User

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    yes,there is no FORSBERG on the russian team...but u know something, there is no KHABIBULIN on the SWEDEN team and goaltending is more key than forwards!
     
  18. sharkyz15

    sharkyz15 Registered User

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    Dont forget about Nabby.

    I think Russia has the best goelies with Canada a close second.

    Dont overlook the fins goelies. Both Kipper and Toskala have the ability to steale a game or two.
     
  19. HF2002

    HF2002 Registered User

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    OK. What have they won? Olympics pre-NHL players doesn't count.

    Sweden is the most over rated hockey nation. They're on the down side of their best generation of players ever. Where's the next generation? Even their best still isn't good enough.
     
  20. Macman

    Macman Registered User

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    If they get the goaltending, Sweden IS good enough everywhere else to win this thing. But you're right about their future. This is Sweden's last chance for a while because they've got nobody coming up. It might be just the incentive they need to finally put it together.

    1. Canada. No weaknesses on paper. A lack of chemistry, too much pressure or bad bounces could be their only downfall.
    2. Sweden. Excellent forwards and defence. Suspect goaltending and a history of folding when it counts could hurt.
    3. Russia. Excellent goaltending and offence. Defence not as good as Canada or Sweden. Yashin is the X factor. Will he show up or disappear like he often does?
    4. USA. Questionable goaltending. Core players getting long in the tooth, but still very dangerous. Will be highly motivated to defend their title.
    5. Czech Republic. Highly skilled but enigmatic lineup. Which Jagr will we see? Ditto for Havlat? Goaltending, defence suspect.
    6. Slovakia. As good as anybody up front, but weaknesses on defence and especially in goal.
    7. Finland. The real darkhorse for me. Kiprusoff capable of carrying these guys a long way. Tough, gritty lineup.
    8. Germany. No hope.

    Without a doubt, this should be the most competive international hockey event ever with seven teams capable of winning it all in a one-game, sudden-death playoff format.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2004
  21. Le Golie

    Le Golie ...

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    Canada's goalies include the two best in the world and a top-5. I don't see how anyone can build a solid arguement against Broduer and Luongo not being the two current best goalies in the world.
     
  22. Epsilon

    Epsilon #TeamHolland

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    1. Canada

    Their lineup has no weak points, and is higher quality than the other squads who can also lay claim to being strong at all three positions. Defensive depth is clearly a strong point as only Sweden boasts a similar back unit.

    2. Russia

    A far better squad on paper than I was expecting, they have good balance through their whole lineup and two excellent goaltenders to choose from.

    3. Sweden

    Goaltending is obviously the question mark for this team which is knee deep in star position players and boasts the NHL's best forward and best defenseman.

    4. Czech Republic

    Similar to Canada in balance, but the defense is definitely inferior. They have the forwards and goaltending to hang with any of the top teams, and always come together well in international competitions.

    5. Finland

    Routinely my favorite team in international competitions because of their "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" attitude, Finland will rarely get embarassed and can beat any team in the tournament if they play their simple, team-oriented game.

    6. Slovakia

    Tons and tons of firepower should allow this team to take some games, even if their defensive depth is light.

    7. United States of America

    I'm not particularly impressed with this team. They are solid but unspectacular at all positions, and I feel they will continue their recent pattern of boom or bust finishes (great in 1996 and 2002, horrid in 1998).

    8. Germany

    Not much to say here. Some nice players but they are clearly overmatched by the other teams. If they play a determined defensive game they might be able to take a game or at least tie some of them.
     
  23. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    Is anyone making that claim? I don't think so. IMO Brodeur gets the nod as the best because of his track record, after that's it's a crapshoot. There's really not alot of differance in the next ten or so goaltenders. You can see that by who made it to the final four in the NHL playoffs this year.
     
  24. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but there's no way the U.S. finishes seventh. Compared to several of the other teams in this competition, and with certain other factors at work (such as chemistry and work ethic), I just don't see the U.S. faring that poorly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2004
  25. Leo Naphta

    Leo Naphta Registered User

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    Don't count out the Swedish netminders just yet. While Sweden is obviously going into this tournament with a question mark hanging over their goaltending, they are not so bad that it is out of the question that one of them goes hot during the tournament. Goaltenders are different than skaters, in some cases they can develop rapidly, in other cases they can go red-hot and play far above their normal ability. Who would have thought a year ago that Kiprusoff would carry Calgary to the Stanley Cup finals this spring?
    In the case of Sweden, Tellqvist, our likely starter, isn't an established NHL:er yet, but from what I understand, that had more to do with Kidd's contract than Tellqvist's performance. And Tellqvist has always been solid when playing for Sweden. Last year he went .940 during the World Championships. Tellqvist looks better than Salo did before the last World Cup, and that time Canada needed two OT-periods - that Sweden dominated - to squeeze past us to the finals.
     
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