Tavares vs. Crosby

[Dipsy Doodle]

Again, too many flaws in your comment.

If your saying a generational talent wins multiple scoring titles, and Crosby hasnt, then that must mean he isnt a generational talent.

Both Ovechkin and Crosby and super-humans on the ice, and they make defensemen look silly, ask hockey players, and please, watch Ovechkin play, as I think you have only watched Crosby play.

Ovechkin is probably top 3 in making the opposing defensemen look silly, and he is hard to contain. Ask Pronger and Beauchemin.

What DONT YOU UNDERSTAND? Both Ovechkin and Crosby are generational talents.

Generational player or Generational talent is when a majority of groups of people feel that from the performance of a certain player in previous years can be translated well into the future, but even better. In this case, hockey analysts, people, and players feel from the 1st season both of Crosby and Ovechkin they are generational talents, because both had seasons that only great ones had in their beginnings. Again this points to Crosby and Ovechkin.

Exceptional players are Malkin, Sakic, Sundin, etc, because they did not have as amazing or as outstanding as the first seasons both Ovechkin and Crosby had, and thus, would always be thought of as "exceptional players," which Ovechkin and Crosby arnt.

For the Bure arguement, HOW THE ****ING HELL do you know if Ovechkin might win the Art Ross or not, thats like me saying Wade Belak would be a Norris Trophy winner 6 times in his career.

Also, tell me what your "extraterrestial" crystal ball says of the future of Nintendo.

And for you to not agree with these statements, it must mean that you are a homer and have personal issues with Ovechkin.

Sigged.

 

[vancityluongo]

OT (again)- If you need some entertaining (especially if you're a guy) light reading for the summer. I suggest Phil Esposito's Semi-autobiography 'Thunder and Lightning'. Basically spans his whole life from a child-hood in the Italian neighborhood of Sault-Ste. Marie until after he opened and lost the Lightning. Involving all the on and off ice stuff. Very good and very entertaining (a 70'sh year old alchoholic Italian... What's better )

Nothing to do with this thread, but that was actually a pretty good read.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Ovechkin is perhaps better than Crosby imo. Ovechkin and Crosby are pretty similar, at the beginning of 2006-07 season Ovechkin and Crosby were like similar in pt totals, until Malkin and Stall came along. Ovechkin has nobody to play with, he's all by himself. Ovechkin is playing with like teammates that havent even scored 5 goals in the whole season.

 

[STA]

I think the big difference between Crosby and Tavares is Crosby makes his teammates better, and Tavares doesn't.

 

[HABSMANIA21*]

I'm pretty sure that the Pens will tank to make sure that they get Tavares, whatever year he ends up getting drafted.

they are not going to tank it when they have a team that could win the stanley cup.

 

[HABSMANIA21*]

ya ive seen tavares get 6 goals one game.

 

[slade]

sid set the standard of all these hyped types giong forward.


hopefully JT has a good head on his shoulders- and will want to continue to improve through juniors. by all accounts it looks like he definitely will.

so far- at the same age he is not on sids level in terms on natural talent and future projections- but he is most definitely a stud pick, and will likely be the the consensus #1 for '09.

he is as solid as malkin/ovechkin at the same age.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Crosby's career has started out as generational.....in fact there isn't anything else he could have done so far.

Besides win the Calder... make the all-star team his first year... etc...

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Besides win the Calder... make the all-star team his first year... etc...

there was no all star game.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

there was no all star game.

No but there was a team. Ovechkin made it.

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

No but there was a team. Ovechkin made it.

This I thought was an arguement between Crosby and Tavares... at least that's what the thread says.

If we're gonna argue those two AGAIN, then you don't just look at their rookie seasons. Ovechkin didn't have the season of a generational talent this past year... Crosby, at 19 years old quite frankly blew him out of the water, and nearly everyone else in the league at that. Ovechkin had the better rookie season admittedly so, he wouldn't have won the Calder had he not. Of course there's always the "Crosby was 18 Ovechkin was 20" debate, which a lot of development occurs from 18-20 as we witnessed first hand with Crosby's game from just 18 to 19. As for the four-year-old up above bringing up the age-old "Malkin and Staal were his support beams" arguement... well I won't even address it because if you weren't a little child, you would have seen other threads that have argued this over and over and over and over and over...

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

I wasn't bringing that up. He said Crosby has done everything he could have. Which he didn't, and this thread has been about Crosby's competition... titles mean nothing. I was pointing out the obvious.

 

[leafmon]

I wasn't bringing that up. He said Crosby has done everything he could have. Which he didn't, and this thread has been about Crosby's competition... titles mean nothing. I was pointing out the obvious.

Guess I just didn't place too much importance to finishing second to a great 20 year old rookie.

The all-star game .....is that the one where they send a guy from every team?

 

[Brandinho]

No but there was a team. Ovechkin made it.

When their careers are over, hockey experts the world over will point to Crosby not making the non-existant All Star game as the reason Ovechkin is better.

 

[slade]

When their careers are over, hockey experts the world over will point to Crosby not making the non-existant All Star game as the reason Ovechkin is better.

hahaha- seriously. what will ovy fans think of next. now that he has a better supporting cast- what will the excuse be when crosby outscores him by 30 points?

 

[Deflectrick]

They will revert back to, "Crosby Whines". "Crosby Dives."

"We're whining about Crosby whining and we don't even realize it."

It's funny, really.

 

[WADEugottaBELAKthat]

File Under: Esposito v. Crosby & Other Unforgivable Overhypes

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It is deja vu all over again . . .


American hockey talent pipeline is solid

As excited as the hockey world is about Pittsburgh Penguins rookie Sidney Crosby, it should be remembered that some scouts would have rated American Phil Kessel ahead of Crosby had Kessel been eligible for the 2005 NHL draft.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/allen/2005-11-03-american-talent_x.htm

Is this one the next Next One?
He's just 16, but Esposito has already made a name for himself
Cam Cole, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, December 13, 2005
Angelo Esposito said he has watched the world junior hockey tournament every Christmas "since I was young."

He is 16.

Some would call that young.

Ian Smith, Vancouver Sun

But at 16 years, 10 months, Esposito is fifth in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League in scoring, with 24 goals and 58 points in 30 games. Those are old numbers, the kind that have already caused him to be mentioned in the same breath as Sidney Crosby, who preceded him at Shattuck-St. Mary's prep school in Minnesota ... and as a 16-year-old in the 'Q.'

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=e1644c56-3939-4366-826d-b72cf5989c4b

 

[Diamond Joe]

It is deja vu all over again . . .


American hockey talent pipeline is solid

As excited as the hockey world is about Pittsburgh Penguins rookie Sidney Crosby, it should be remembered that some scouts would have rated American Phil Kessel ahead of Crosby had Kessel been eligible for the 2005 NHL draft.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/allen/2005-11-03-american-talent_x.htm

Is this one the next Next One?
He's just 16, but Esposito has already made a name for himself
Cam Cole, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, December 13, 2005
Angelo Esposito said he has watched the world junior hockey tournament every Christmas "since I was young."

He is 16.

Some would call that young.

Ian Smith, Vancouver Sun

But at 16 years, 10 months, Esposito is fifth in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League in scoring, with 24 goals and 58 points in 30 games. Those are old numbers, the kind that have already caused him to be mentioned in the same breath as Sidney Crosby, who preceded him at Shattuck-St. Mary's prep school in Minnesota ... and as a 16-year-old in the 'Q.'

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=e1644c56-3939-4366-826d-b72cf5989c4b

Those are both ridiculous comparisons...Kessel will be good, but will consistently be at least 30-40 pts behind Crosby once he gets better than 90 pts behind him. Next.

edit: that was not a personal attack on Jaded-fan.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Those are both ridiculous comparisons...Kessel will be good, but will consistently be at least 30-40 pts behind Crosby once he gets better than 90 pts behind him. Next.

edit: that was not a personal attack on Jaded-fan.

Point is that we have heard this all before, almost every year. Look, Tavares may turn out to be better than Crosby, but until he laces up skates in the NHL, hell until he even makes it to his draft year, to put up these comparisons now is as grossly unfair to him as it was to Kessel and Esposito.

Crosby looks at this moment like his chances are good to become one of the all-time greats. To mention him potentially in the same breath of some of the names like Gretzky and Mario is not laughable even though he has a long way to go to get there. That is an awfully high bar for Tavares to live up to. Frankly his chances are small of doing it going by how few of the hyped ones ever actually achieve the hype. Crosby has exceeded expectations his first two years. That is rare given the expectations.

 

[whatthef]

It is deja vu all over again . . .


American hockey talent pipeline is solid

As excited as the hockey world is about Pittsburgh Penguins rookie Sidney Crosby, it should be remembered that some scouts would have rated American Phil Kessel ahead of Crosby had Kessel been eligible for the 2005 NHL draft.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/allen/2005-11-03-american-talent_x.htm

Is this one the next Next One?
He's just 16, but Esposito has already made a name for himself
Cam Cole, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, December 13, 2005
Angelo Esposito said he has watched the world junior hockey tournament every Christmas "since I was young."

He is 16.

Some would call that young.

Ian Smith, Vancouver Sun

But at 16 years, 10 months, Esposito is fifth in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League in scoring, with 24 goals and 58 points in 30 games. Those are old numbers, the kind that have already caused him to be mentioned in the same breath as Sidney Crosby, who preceded him at Shattuck-St. Mary's prep school in Minnesota ... and as a 16-year-old in the 'Q.'

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=e1644c56-3939-4366-826d-b72cf5989c4b

That might be true but can you think of another player in the junior leagues that looks as good or has much skill as Tavares? I can't. He might not live up to the hype, but what he's done so far he does deserve that hype so far.

 

[hawksfan50]

The one big difference between Crosby and Tavares is that Crosby is a good skater
--he has speed --Tavares is not that good of a skater...Crosby also has a burning desire on almost every shift--I don't see that in Tavares...Crosby is exciting even on shifts that do not results in a Pens goal...I would not call Tavares electrifying.
Tavares is more a combo of power and a Gretzky-like ability that the puck seems to follow him around and he finishes his chances...I think he is more end result of plays rather than the cause that leads to a score...

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

sid set the standard of all these hyped types giong forward.


hopefully JT has a good head on his shoulders- and will want to continue to improve through juniors. by all accounts it looks like he definitely will.

so far- at the same age he is not on sids level in terms on natural talent and future projections- but he is most definitely a stud pick, and will likely be the the consensus #1 for '09.

he is as solid as malkin/ovechkin at the same age.

I disagree, Ovechkin is another level, that Malkin is not.

Also, Ovechkin was very much hyped just like Sidney in Canada, but in Russia.

Nevertheless, Tavares first needs to play in the NHL, before even mentioning him in a sentence with Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.

For the Ovechkin vs. Crosby thing, time will tell........

 

[kakemono]

For the Ovechkin vs. Crosby thing, time will tell........

this is probably the most intelligent word spoken on this issue

 

[Cliff O Malley]

Ovechkin is perhaps better than Crosby imo. Ovechkin and Crosby are pretty similar, at the beginning of 2006-07 season Ovechkin and Crosby were like similar in pt totals, until Malkin and Stall came along. Ovechkin has nobody to play with, he's all by himself. Ovechkin is playing with like teammates that havent even scored 5 goals in the whole season.

I bolded the parts that made me laugh. I'm sorry, that made me like laugh.