Speculation: Tavares or Carlson, why not both?

[tmlms13]

1) Carlson - 7.5
2) Rielly - 5
3) Zaitsev - 4.5
4) Dermott - 0.9
5) Liljegren - 0.9

That D is almost as bad as the one they currently have. Liljegren's ETA is 2019-20 at the earliest and probably 2021-22 to be a solid contributor at the NHL level.

 

[Fogelhund]

The Leafs have been down the Tanev road before with Lupul and Colaiacovo. Expecting these guys to suddenly be healthy is a fool's errand. They are what the are... made of glass, and for that reason, cannot be counted on as anything more than a support piece for a greater core. In other words... if a guy like Tanev plays... great, your team is that much better. But you can't count on him. You need the depth to offset his absence and the Leafs don't have that.

Then acquire it.

 

[Kurtz]

The Leafs have been down the Tanev road before with Lupul and Colaiacovo. Expecting these guys to suddenly be healthy is a fool's errand. They are what the are... made of glass, and for that reason, cannot be counted on as anything more than a support piece for a greater core. In other words... if a guy like Tanev plays... great, your team is that much better. But you can't count on him. You need the depth to offset his absence and the Leafs don't have that.

I think we have depth (Borgman, Carrick, Rosen, Holl, etc), what we lack the most is a guy who we can pair with Morgan, with the pair playing an effective 25 min/night. That's where Tanev comes in.

 

[htpwn]

Then acquire it.

I think we have depth (Borgman, Carrick, Rosen, Holl, etc), what we lack the most is a guy who we can pair with Morgan, with the pair playing an effective 25 min/night. That's where Tanev comes in.

He can't be that guy, though. That's my point. Tanev has played a combined 95 games over the past two seasons (/164). His career high is 76GP including playoffs... and he was 25 that year. He's unlikely healthier as he gets older.

When he inevitably misses games, what then? A team like Nashville, with an already deep defense, can absorb the loss of Tanev for ~40% of the season and hope he's healthy enough to boost their team in the playoffs. Josi or Ellis can step up. For the Leafs? The loss of Tanev would put us back to square one: A first pairing of Rielly-Zaitsev or Rielly-Hainsey. That's what I mean by the Leafs not having the depth. He's injured too often to be a reliable #1RHD, and that's what Vancouver values him at.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Why can't 2018/19 be another year of development....,with maybe a better ending in April or May. Grunstrom, Aaltonen, maybe Nylander at centre. Borgman, Dermot and Sparks. Why go crazy getting a bad value in a trade? Anyone really believe Tanev is a difference maker?

 

[robertmac43]

If this happens I will smile, but thats a crap ton of money

 

[robertmac43]

Yes it's bad. No he hasn't matured. Hard pass.

After his play with the Sharks I would take him, also I have not heard much about his attitude for a while

 

[Kurtz]

He can't be that guy, though. That's my point. Tanev has played a combined 95 games over the past two seasons (/164). His career high is 76GP including playoffs... and he was 25 that year. He's unlikely healthier as he gets older.

When he inevitably misses games, what then? A team like Nashville, with an already deep defense, can absorb the loss of Tanev for ~40% of the season and hope he's healthy enough to boost their team in the playoffs. Josi or Ellis can step up. For the Leafs? The loss of Tanev would put us back to square one: A first pairing of Rielly-Zaitsev or Rielly-Hainsey. That's what I mean by the Leafs not having the depth. He's injured too often to be a reliable #1RHD, and that's what Vancouver values him at.

Your concern is 100% justified; it'd definitely be a risky move...I just can't see us adding a healthy, affordable, first-pairing RHD without parting with something incredibly significant, but perhaps Dubas will surprise.

 

[Fogelhund]

He can't be that guy, though. That's my point. Tanev has played a combined 95 games over the past two seasons (/164). His career high is 76GP including playoffs... and he was 25 that year. He's unlikely healthier as he gets older.

When he inevitably misses games, what then? A team like Nashville, with an already deep defense, can absorb the loss of Tanev for ~40% of the season and hope he's healthy enough to boost their team in the playoffs. Josi or Ellis can step up. For the Leafs? The loss of Tanev would put us back to square one: A first pairing of Rielly-Zaitsev or Rielly-Hainsey. That's what I mean by the Leafs not having the depth. He's injured too often to be a reliable #1RHD, and that's what Vancouver values him at.

Dermott Carlson
Rielly Tanev
Borgman/Rosen/Hainsey Zaitsev

 

[Stephen]

I think we have depth (Borgman, Carrick, Rosen, Holl, etc), what we lack the most is a guy who we can pair with Morgan, with the pair playing an effective 25 min/night. That's where Tanev comes in.

They need to pursue all avenues, which includes the big ticket acquisitions, the BPA's at the draft, European and College RFA's and hope some of the guys they added the past couple of years can just mature into solid NHL defensemen. Guys like Johnny Boychuk, Adam McQuaid, the Miller's, Torey Krug, they all came out of nothing acquisitions for the Bruins.

 

[Battle Lin]

lol we sure are greedy

just give me tavares, and im ok with top free agents not picking us for a decade, might even take 2 decades

 

[DowntownConnorBrown]

cap space if we sign both we have to let one of the big 3 go because of no cap space

 

[613Leafer]

We have I'm assuming the highest paid scouting + management staff in the league. We shouldn't be the team trading 1st rounder+ for the aging injury prone declining assets around the league like Tanev, crossing our fingers, and hoping for the best.

We should be the team that's able to target undervalued players on other teams, bring them here and have them flourish. Vegas did it with Schmidt, Miller, Karlsson, Haula, etc. We've seen other good value trades done by Calgary/NYI/Winnipeg to acquire youngish Hamilton/Leddy/Myers, etc. Justin Schultz looks a lot better in Pittsburgh than he did in Edmonton, etc.

I don't know what the solution is, but with all the money we're pouring into management/scouting, I hope they can come up with something better than trading a bunch of valuable assets for Tanev.

 

[LeafFever]

Carlson is Gardiner 2.0.

 

[Buds17]

Carlson is Gardiner 2.0.

Not to say I'd definitely want to sign Carlson, but I'd disagree in the sense that Carlson is a right side D (not easy to acquire, more of a team need) that plays on the PK. I think they're both currently on great contracts. Might be interesting to see what the next ones look like though.

 

[glucker]

Is it bad that I want Evander Kane?

Kane-Kadri anyone?

He's more mature now. Sharks love him. And won't cost Tavares money

Throw Kapanen on the right wing, and you’ve got the south of the mason Dixon line.

 

[HC7]

Is it bad that I want Evander Kane?

Kane-Kadri anyone?

He's more mature now. Sharks love him. And won't cost Tavares money

Yeah no f***ing duh he'd cost less than Tavares. He's not even half as good.

 

[Machinae]

Andersen (5m)
Sparks (1.2m)
---
Rielly (5m) - Carlson (8m)
Dermott (863k) - Zaitsev (4.5m)
xxxxx (925k) - Holl (1.4m)
Liljegren (925k)
---
Hyman (2.25m) - Matthews (11.25m) - Nylander (6m)
Grundstrom (925k) - Kadri (4.5m) - Marner (8.5m)
Johnsson (1.2m) - Tavares (12m) - Kapanen (2m)
xxxxx (925k) - xxxxx (925k) - xxxxx (925k)
xxxxx (925k), xxxxx (925k), Kessel (1.2m)

xxxxx = Player developed internally (Moore, Marchment, Bracco, etc.) or cheap "moneypuck" signings.
Marleau + Martin + 1st to bottom feeder looking to reach salary floor
Brown could theoretically be kept if some money is shaved elsewhere or cap goes up even further than 82 but I tried to keep it under.
Gardiner and Hainsey out as free agents.
23 man roster + Kessel buyout coming under 82m. This would be the roster we 'settle' for after losing Marleau, Martin, Brown at forward and Gardiner, Hainsey at defense from the Stanley cup team the year before..

 

[Tak7]

i don't bloody care, you can't get one

stop hoping for santa clause and the easter bunny, it's just childish and silly

There's literally one about to sit in free agency that you can get for free - not sure how childish or silly that is, tbh

Do you know how free agency works? Fairly certain neither Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny are involved

 

[Brock Radunske]

Worst case we pay picks to get rid of Martin and even Brown. Replace them with elc and now you have another 3.5 to work with. Very doable.

If we got jt I would bet doughty would come. He is even attainable at 10 million

Pay picks to get rid of Brown?
Seriously?
I'm hoping that's just awkward phrasing...

 

[Tak7]

Why can't 2018/19 be another year of development....,with maybe a better ending in April or May. Grunstrom, Aaltonen, maybe Nylander at centre. Borgman, Dermot and Sparks. Why go crazy getting a bad value in a trade? Anyone really believe Tanev is a difference maker?

This would be my off-season approach.

Stay the course, look for cheap stop gaps on the blue line (de Haan), and then reassess at this time next summer.

I think that will be the time to try and make a big move. Not right now.

 

[ToneDog]

This would be my off-season approach.

Stay the course, look for cheap stop gaps on the blue line (de Haan), and then reassess at this time next summer.

I think that will be the time to try and make a big move. Not right now.

Does that mean you would not open the door if Tavares came knocking ?

 

[Tak7]

Does that mean you would not open the door if Tavares came knocking ?

Of course - I was focusing more on the blueline however.

I don't think Tavares comes knocking however. I'm convinced he stays on Long Island

 

[ToneDog]

Of course - I was focusing more on the blueline however.

I don't think Tavares comes knocking however. I'm convinced he stays on Long Island

Convinced is a pretty strong word. What made you convinced he stays on the Island ?

 

[member 157595]

On the surface, you'd think a top-pairing RHD would be a perfect fit on this team since it is by far their greatest need. The problem is that Carlson isn't the minute-munching defensive/possession horse the Leafs really need in that spot (Doughty would be a dream scenario but he's almost certainly not an option) and due to supply and demand he's going to be massively paid this offseason. He makes the team better in the short-term but may be a Cap problem in the long term. I'm only interested if he signs a Cap-friendly deal and there's no way that's going to happen with all the possible suitors he'll have.

Tavares...I don't think he comes here. I don't think he wants the media attention. He does want to win though, so I'm definitely not convinced he stays with the Islanders yet.