Tank season 2017-2018

weastern bias

worst team in the league
Feb 3, 2012
10,298
5,374
SJ
I'm not the one hysterically overreacting to 2 (two) losses.

I never claimed you were, I only pointed out your assumed superiority to these 'fake "fans"' because it's hilarious

I'm better at supporting an entertainment product than you are, how dare you have a differing opinion, you're fake, your support is fake, only people who agree with me are real fans, we are the best and way betterer than fake fans
 
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Bizz

2023 LTIR Loophole* Cup Champions
Oct 17, 2007
10,931
6,571
San Jose
I never claimed you were, I only pointed out your assumed superiority to these 'fake "fans"' because it's hilarious

I'm better at supporting an entertainment product than you are, how dare you have a differing opinion, you're fake, your support is fake, only people who agree with me are real fans, we are the best and way betterer than fake fans

Having an opinion and having an agenda are two different things. I'm calling out the ones with an agenda.
 

weastern bias

worst team in the league
Feb 3, 2012
10,298
5,374
SJ
Having an opinion and having an agenda are two different things. I'm calling out the ones with an agenda.

A fan's "agenda" is largely irrelevant, it's not like they run the team or make any decisions about the future of the franchise

They have opinions, those options are different from yours, and that's fine, it doesn't make them lesser (or fake) fans, if you care about the team even a little then you're a fan

If everyone here agreed all the time the board would be super boring, differing opinions make this place fun
 
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Bizz

2023 LTIR Loophole* Cup Champions
Oct 17, 2007
10,931
6,571
San Jose
A fan's "agenda" is largely irrelevant, it's not like they run the team or make any decisions about the future of the franchise

They have opinions, those options are different from yours, and that's fine, it doesn't make them lesser (or fake) fans, if you care about the team even a little then you're a fan

If everyone here agreed all the time the board would be super boring, differing opinions make this place fun

You're right. Calling out people is half the fun, actually. In the end none of us have any say in what happens to the Sharks so it's pointless anyhow.
 

Led Zappa

Tomorrow Today
Jan 8, 2007
50,344
872
Silicon Valley
I have a hard time believing that when they extended guys like Jones and Vlasic. A rebuilding team doesn't extend them to that extent when that's the plan.

It is if you don't want to have to resign players like that in 3 or 4 years and you want Vets around to help build the team.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,238
13,611
Folsom
It is if you don't want to have to resign players like that in 3 or 4 years and you want Vets around to help build the team.

If it were vets that weren't players in those specific positions at that level, I'd probably agree with you. You don't re-sign players of that stature to those contracts if you've decided to rebuild. This is especially true for guys like Vlasic and Jones when they had another year on their current deals. A rebuilding team is going to very likely trade those assets for futures and, at least in the case of Jones, not tie themselves into a trade clause to limit their value. Those are moves for a team that plans on competing, I feel.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
47,387
15,718
Bay Area
It is if you don't want to have to resign players like that in 3 or 4 years and you want Vets around to help build the team.

Vlasic, I can deal with. Jones? That contract is awful. We probably could get Mrazek for a 6th and I’m not convinced he’s worse than Jones. Getting a goaltender is easy. I get keeping Vlasic even if I don’t like the contract but there is literally no excuse for the Jones contract.
 

StanleyCup2035

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
1,210
1,427
1. Fire DW
2. Fire Burke
3. Hire Juxtaposer to replace Burke
4. Trade veterans for 1st Round picks and top prospects
5. Pray, pray, pray for a Top 2 pick for Dahlin or Svechnikov
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,205
8,923
Whidbey Island, WA
I never thought I would say this after Jones first year but he has been a pretty average goaltender for us overall. I defended him extensively last year given the long run the year before but if he continues playing the way he has started off this season it will be hard to defend that contract he got.

We are largely dependent on 3 players to drive us: Jumbo, Jones and Burns. If 2 of the 3 do not have a good year, we are not making the playoffs.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
47,387
15,718
Bay Area
I never thought I would say this after Jones first year but he has been a pretty average goaltender for us overall. I defended him extensively last year given the long run the year before but if he continues playing the way he has started off this season it will be hard to defend that contract he got.

We are largely dependent on 3 players to drive us: Jumbo, Jones and Burns. If 2 of the 3 do not have a good year, we are not making the playoffs.

I really wanted to like Jones but it’s getting harder to defend him.
 

BaileyMacTavish

Hockey lovin' wolf
Nov 8, 2010
14,025
1,361
San Jose
Jones at the start of this season so far has stunk it up. It's really hard to justify that extension right now. I really hope he bounces back to form
 

209

Registered User
Mar 12, 2008
2,058
388
SF Bay Area
I wouldnt blame Jones for Saturday's debacle. The Sharks played like crap in front of him. That lazy ass pass by Burns at end of 1st period? WTF was that?!?!
 

bigwillie

Registered User
Jul 14, 2006
7,031
10
Portland, OR
This has been discussed quite a bit by the board in the past, but I haven't seen it in this thread (at least after a cursory glance and a quick CTRL+F on this page): Why the flying f*** does Roy Sommer have a job? He actually seems like a decent enough hockey coach, but he's done absolutely jack shit to help develop young talent, which. as a head coach at the minor league (read: developmental) level, is his primary job over simply coaching games to be competitive. Someone took a look a while ago on all the players that spent significant developmental time under Sommer, and it wasn't pretty. The org doesn't send players to the AHL affiliate to develop at this point - it sends them there to wither on the vine and die.

Honestly, you can't look at the Sharks draft history in a vacuum and judge the scouting staff and/or Doug Wilson without taking a long, hard look at the guy who acted as the intermediary for a lot of players between their journey from amateur hockey to the NHL. Might Mueller have been a purely shitty pick? Sure. Probably was. But he's another defenseman to play under Sommer who have gone down the shitter, and especially if he finds his game in New Jersey, you have to wonder if the Sharks can't do better developing.
 

Coily

Gettin' Jiggy with it
Oct 8, 2008
34,622
2,233
Redlands
Jones was probably a top 5 player in the playoffs for SJ, but right now it's hard to justify him starting let alone his contract extension. It's been two games, lets see how he does after 10-11.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
47,387
15,718
Bay Area
Jones at the start of this season so far has stunk it up. It's really hard to justify that extension right now. I really hope he bounces back to form

The problem is “back to form” is that it isn’t that good to begin with. Jones played awesome in our SCF run and he was pretty okay in last year’s playoffs too IIRC, but other than that he’s been pretty mediocre. I doubt he’ll be as bad this year as he has been these first two games, but “bouncing back” could just mean a .910 sv%, which is also bad.
 

Vaasa

Registered User
Aug 23, 2006
8,937
23
Sacramento, CA
This has been discussed quite a bit by the board in the past, but I haven't seen it in this thread (at least after a cursory glance and a quick CTRL+F on this page): Why the flying **** does Roy Sommer have a job? He actually seems like a decent enough hockey coach, but he's done absolutely jack **** to help develop young talent, which. as a head coach at the minor league (read: developmental) level, is his primary job over simply coaching games to be competitive. Someone took a look a while ago on all the players that spent significant developmental time under Sommer, and it wasn't pretty. The org doesn't send players to the AHL affiliate to develop at this point - it sends them there to wither on the vine and die.

Honestly, you can't look at the Sharks draft history in a vacuum and judge the scouting staff and/or Doug Wilson without taking a long, hard look at the guy who acted as the intermediary for a lot of players between their journey from amateur hockey to the NHL. Might Mueller have been a purely ****ty pick? Sure. Probably was. But he's another defenseman to play under Sommer who have gone down the ****ter, and especially if he finds his game in New Jersey, you have to wonder if the Sharks can't do better developing.

I've been wondering this since 2012. And heck, SJEasy was making this point even before I was. :)
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,942
55,952
The problem with the Jones extension is that we needed to find out more about him before giving him that kind of an extension. If he had played well up to January or February, that extension might look better than how it looks now. And I don't even wanna have to hear ''If you let him go to February without a contract, he tests UFA''. Brent Burns went until February and let's be serious here. It's much more riskier to let Brent Burns get close to approaching UFA than Martin Jones. Brent Burns would have been the best UFA in quite some time. Martin Jones would not have.

And Jones hasn't had two good seasons in a row in his entire career, at least not in the NHL, he hasn't.

I think it's reasonable to think that maybe his over-usage (which was COMPLETELY UNNECCESSARY in 16-17) last year, combined with the long playoff run in 2016 and having to play as much as he did in 15-16 (it was necessary that year with Stalock being a complete liability), caused him to play at a caliber below what he otherwise could have played. We just needed more time to see that this season, hopefully with a bit more rest, on the way to it.
 
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Led Zappa

Tomorrow Today
Jan 8, 2007
50,344
872
Silicon Valley
I did this to get feel of Goalie Cap hits compared to performance. It reminded me that Jones contract may end up bad, but we've had him for 2 years and get another year at 3M. Averaged out it's an excellent contract and I think that was mentioned many times when the contract was signed.

I sorted it by Win%, but it isn't meant to be what everything is to be compared against. I did it for 2016 and 2017.

Jones was the 24th (16) and 26th (17) lowest paid goalie for respective years.

2016 - Goalie Stats vs CAP

PLAYERTEAMAGEGPWLSOWin%GAASv%SALARYCAP HITGAASv%CAPWin%
Braden HoltbyCaps2866489372.73%2.200.922$6,500,000$6,100,0005661
Marc-Andre FleuryPens32583517560.34%2.290.921$5,750,000$5,750,00089142
Corey CrawfordHawks32583518760.34%2.370.924$6,500,000$6,000,00018583
Jonathan QuickKings31684023558.82%2.220.918$7,000,000$5,800,000617134
Kari LehtonenStars33432510258.14%2.760.906$6,000,000$5,900,0003031125
Ben BishopBolts30613521657.38%2.060.926$5,950,000$5,950,00012106
Martin JonesSharks27653723656.92%2.270.918$3,000,000$3,000,000720237
Roberto LuongoPanthers38623519456.45%2.350.922$6,714,000$5,333,333147158
Thomas GreissIslanders31412311156.10%2.360.925$1,000,000$1,500,000163279
Jake AllenBlues27472615655.32%2.350.92$2,200,000$2,350,00015122510
Brian ElliottBlues3242238454.76%2.070.93$2,500,000$2,500,000212411
Henrik LundqvistRangers35653521453.85%2.480.92$10,000,000$8,500,0002011112
John GibsonDucks24402113452.50%2.070.92$787,500$752,5003143213
Antti NiemiStars34482513352.08%2.670.905$4,500,000$4,500,00025331714
Craig AndersonSens36603123451.67%2.780.916$4,750,000$4,200,00031232015
Pekka RinnePreds34663421451.52%2.480.908$7,000,000$7,000,0002129316
Frederik AndersenDucks2843229351.16%2.300.919$1,300,000$1,150,00010163017
Jaroslav HalakIslanders32361813350.00%2.300.919$4,750,000$4,500,0009151818
Petr MrázekWings25542716450.00%2.330.921$737,500$737,50012103319
Chad JohnsonSabres31452216148.89%2.360.92$1,600,000$1,300,00017132920
Tuukka RaskBruins30643122448.44%2.560.915$7,500,000$7,000,0002424421
Devan DubnykWild31673226547.76%2.330.918$5,000,000$4,333,33313181922
Semyon VarlamovAvs29572725247.37%2.810.914$6,000,000$5,900,00033251123
Cory SchneiderDevils31582725446.55%2.150.924$6,000,000$6,000,00044724
Cam WardCanes33522317144.23%2.410.909$6,800,000$6,300,0001927525
Steve MasonFlyers29542319442.59%2.510.918$4,100,000$4,100,00022192226
James ReimerLeafs29401714342.50%2.310.922$2,000,000$2,300,0001182627
Sergei BobrovskyJackets29371519140.54%2.750.908$8,500,000$7,425,0002928228
Louis DomingueYotes25391518238.46%2.750.912$605,000$605,00028263429
Mike CondonHabs27552125138.18%2.710.903$575,000$575,00027343530
Jimmy HowardWings33371414237.84%2.800.906$5,500,000$5,291,66732321631
Cam TalbotOilers30562127337.50%2.550.917$1,450,000$1,450,00023212832
Eddie LäckCanes29341214235.29%2.810.901$1,300,000$1,150,00034353133
Ryan MillerNucks37511724133.33%2.700.916$6,000,000$6,000,0002622934
Jonathan BernierLeafs29381221331.58%2.880.908$4,150,000$4,150,00035302135


2017 - Goalie Stats vs CAP

PLAYERAgeTeamGPWLSOWin%GAASv%SALARYCAP HITGGASv%CAPWin%
Braden Holtby28Caps634213966.67%2.070.925$7,000,000$6,100,0002361
Matt Murray23Pens493210465.31%2.410.923$575,000$628,333117342
Sergei Bobrovsky29Jackets634117765.08%2.060.931$8,500,000$7,425,0001123
Craig Anderson36Sens402511562.50%2.280.926$4,750,000$4,200,00082194
Devan Dubnyk31Wild654019561.54%2.250.923$5,000,000$4,333,33376185
Carey Price30Habs623720359.68%2.230.923$7,000,000$6,500,0006556
Corey Crawford32Hawks553218258.18%2.550.918$6,000,000$6,000,000181277
Cam Talbot30Oilers734222757.53%2.390.919$4,150,000$4,166,667910208
Tuukka Rask30Bruins653720856.92%2.230.915$7,500,000$7,000,00051639
Henrik Lundqvist35Rangers573120254.39%2.740.91$9,500,000$8,500,0002727110
Jake Allen27Blues613320454.10%2.420.915$2,500,000$2,350,00013172711
Martin Jones27Sharks653523253.85%2.400.912$3,000,000$3,000,00010241212
Jonathan Bernier29Ducks39217253.85%2.500.915$4,150,000$4,150,00015182113
Brian Elliott32Flames492618253.06%2.550.91$2,700,000$2,500,00019262614
Thomas Greiss31Islanders512618350.98%2.690.913$2,000,000$1,500,00026233015
Pekka Rinne34Preds613119350.82%2.420.918$7,000,000$7,000,0001211416
Frederik Andersen28Leafs663316450.00%2.670.918$5,000,000$5,000,00022131617
Peter Budaj35Kings603021750.00%2.180.915$600,000$600,0003153518
John Gibson24Ducks522516648.08%2.220.924$1,500,000$2,300,000442819
Marc-Andre Fleury32Pens381810147.37%3.020.909$5,750,000$5,750,00034281320
Connor Hellebuyck24Jets562619446.43%2.890.907$692,500$667,50031313321
Mike Condon27Sens411914546.34%2.480.914$575,000$575,00014203622
Ben Bishop30Bolts391815146.15%2.540.91$5,950,000$5,950,00017251023
Andrei Vasilevskiy23Bolts502317246.00%2.610.917$925,000$925,00020143224
Steve Mason29Flyers582621344.83%2.660.908$4,100,000$4,100,00021292225
Cam Ward33Canes612622242.62%2.690.905$3,500,000$3,300,00025322526
Roberto Luongo38Panthers401715142.50%2.680.915$6,714,000$5,333,33323191527
James Reimer29Panthers431816341.86%2.530.92$4,500,000$3,400,0001682428
Robin Lehner26Sabres592326238.98%2.680.92$3,150,000$2,225,0002492929
Kari Lehtonen33Stars592225337.29%2.850.902$6,000,000$5,900,00030341130
Petr Mrázek25Wings501821136.00%3.040.901$3,850,000$4,000,00035352331
Mike Smith35Yotes551926334.55%2.920.914$6,500,000$5,666,66732221432
Ryan Miller37Nucks541829333.33%2.800.914$6,000,000$6,000,0002821833
Cory Schneider31Devils602027233.33%2.820.908$6,000,000$6,000,0002930934
Antti Niemi34Stars371212032.43%3.300.892$4,500,000$4,500,00036361735
Calvin Pickard25Leafs501531230.00%2.980.904$925,000$1,000,00033333136
 
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