Proposal: Tanev + Baerstchi for Marner

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hockey down under

Registered User
Feb 13, 2017
272
45
Vancouver would be ****ing lucky if Horvat ever sniffed 40 goals like Kadri while playing Selke level defense. Horvat is closer to a poor man's Bozak, and even that's overrating a guy who was a -30 two years ago.



Yeah, we really need some better players. The most we should hope for in return for Tanev is a guy like Josh Leivo (instantly would become our top prospect) and a signed Nylander jersey to put in the rafters of Rogers Arena, in the hopes that we too can one day be graced with such talent.

Kadri has never sniffed 40 goals. He got 32 once playing the full 82 games. His highest total other than that is 20. Kadri is a great player now but at Horvat's age he struggled to get in the lineup on a terrible Toronto team.
Horvat at 21 years old lead a terrible team with 52 points. He got 20 goals earlier in his career than Kadri did.

Also using plus minus to discredit players that play on terrible teams is silly. It's a team stat. It's like trying to use goals against per game for goalies. That being said Kadri has been a minus player most of his career. Doesn't really help your Kadri to Horvat comparison

Josh Leivo would be our top prospect? You must be trolling!
 

firstemperor

Registered User
May 25, 2011
8,755
1,445
I can understand your unwillingless to trade Matthews, and I agree... but that would be a fantastic package for him. A core of Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Kapanen, Brown, Gardiner, Tanev, Horvat, Boeser, Juolevi, Liljegren etc would be pretty damn deep. You'd be more likely to win cups with that young core than with your current one imo.

We have the depth to roll probably 4.5-5 NHL lines right now.....but there's a cap, you can only roll one line, and there is no replacement for absolutely elite game-breaking talent. The Leafs have waited a decade for a starting goaltender.....we could spend a lot longer than that for another player as good as Matthews. You can't put a value on players like Matthews. The guy is incredibly good....like trade everyone on a franchise beforehand (including Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Kessel, whatever asset we had before 2014) and sign replacement level players and rebuild good. We are incredibly lucky to have him.

Depth is nice but there is no replacement for elite talent at the end of the day. You can't win with depth.....it's a superstar driven league at the end of the day. I have the same fight with my Raptors, have been a fan of pretty bad Toronto sports all my life, so I know the pain beyond hockey.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clunk

clunk

Registered User
Dec 10, 2015
11,343
5,417
I'm gonna..
We have the depth to roll probably 4.5-5 NHL lines right now.....but there's a cap, you can only roll one line, and there is no replacement for absolutely elite game-breaking talent. The Leafs have waited a decade for a starting goaltender.....we could spend a lot longer than that for another player as good as Matthews. You can't put a value on players like Matthews. The guy is incredibly good....like trade everyone on a franchise beforehand (including Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Kessel, whatever asset we had before 2014) and sign replacement level players and rebuild good. We are incredibly lucky to have him.

Depth is nice but there is no replacement for elite talent at the end of the day. You can't win with depth.....it's a superstar driven league at the end of the day. I have the same fight with my Raptors, have been a fan of pretty bad Toronto sports all my life, so I know the pain beyond hockey.
Oh I completely agree, I'm just saying if you HAD to trade Matthews, that wouldn't be the worst package in the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: firstemperor

Man Bear Pig

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
31,003
13,747
Earth
Lol any neutral fan would take Boeser over Kapenen.

Leafs fans smh
And let me guess, you're the voice of the neutral? Lets not pretend that the reason why Kapanen isnt in the NHL right now is because the Leafs are incredibly deep and he can be sent down. While Boeser is competing with who again?
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
I can understand your unwillingless to trade Matthews, and I agree... but that would be a fantastic package for him. A core of Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Kapanen, Brown, Gardiner, Tanev, Horvat, Boeser, Juolevi, Liljegren etc would be pretty damn deep. You'd be more likely to win cups with that young core than with your current one imo.

I think zona would offer up a better package to be honest. the way things are going there OEL + Strome + Keller wouldn't be out of the question. Auston Matthews can turn a franchise around on his own. Looks like he is gonna be a legit 40g/80+ pts #1C that dominates possession
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
Kadri has never sniffed 40 goals. He got 32 once playing the full 82 games. His highest total other than that is 20. Kadri is a great player now but at Horvat's age he struggled to get in the lineup on a terrible Toronto team.
Horvat at 21 years old lead a terrible team with 52 points. He got 20 goals earlier in his career than Kadri did.

Also using plus minus to discredit players that play on terrible teams is silly. It's a team stat. It's like trying to use goals against per game for goalies. That being said Kadri has been a minus player most of his career. Doesn't really help your Kadri to Horvat comparison

Josh Leivo would be our top prospect? You must be trolling!

He also played more games before he got to 20. Kadris first year where he played more than 30 games he had 18g in 48 games, his first full season he had 20 in 78.

so Horvat now has 51g in his first 236 games...Kadri had 64 in his first 249 games. Lets see if Horvat can get 13 goals in his next 13 to catch naz. I think nucks fans would be very happy to see their guy turn into a 30g/60pt player
 

vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2006
18,561
6,216
Edmonton
Kadri has never sniffed 40 goals. He got 32 once playing the full 82 games. His highest total other than that is 20. Kadri is a great player now but at Horvat's age he struggled to get in the lineup on a terrible Toronto team.
Horvat at 21 years old lead a terrible team with 52 points. He got 20 goals earlier in his career than Kadri did.

Also using plus minus to discredit players that play on terrible teams is silly. It's a team stat. It's like trying to use goals against per game for goalies. That being said Kadri has been a minus player most of his career. Doesn't really help your Kadri to Horvat comparison

Josh Leivo would be our top prospect? You must be trolling!

Another homer Nucks fan smh. Yeah Leivo has spent time with future HHOFers like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly, Kadri, Andersen, and Kapanen. JVR and Bozak have an outside shot at it too. That sort of competition is worth wayyyyyy more than having to beat out the bums on the Canucks roster like Boeser did.

I'm a Canucks fan too but just try to be more neutral :sarcasm:
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,660
30,952
40N 83W (approx)
Tanev is not for sale, thats why we want such an overpayment.
Could've fooled me, given how frequently his name has been coming up here, in offers and in requests.

In general, he's being treated like some sort of franchise-changing all-encompassing badass, and he's not that; he's just the kind of really good that lets you slot all your OTHER defensemen into more manageable places in the depth chart. That's really valuable, but there's limits.
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
14,935
5,263
I can understand your unwillingless to trade Matthews, and I agree... but that would be a fantastic package for him. A core of Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Kapanen, Brown, Gardiner, Tanev, Horvat, Boeser, Juolevi, Liljegren etc would be pretty damn deep. You'd be more likely to win cups with that young core than with your current one imo.

The core with Matthews in it is better. Depth only gets you so far. Matthews has true superstar talent that can drive plays and games. The Leafs already have plenty of depth. In fact, they are struggling to find enough top time for many of their forwards. The fact of the matter is that a player like Matthews is so hard to come by that you simply do not trade him for a package of lesser parts unless you are absolutely forced to.
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
6,582
1,051
I don't see how the winning Leafs would be in any panic to trade Marner. And how could Vancouver trade Horvat,Juolevi and Boeser for one guy? I'm not seeing it.
 

GoodbyeLuongo

Registered User
Jun 8, 2012
1,927
638
Seattle
As opposed to Horvat who has done it several times before :sarcasm:

I'm not gonna bother pointing out the years difference. My entire point is that while Marner had a great year, he's not a star yet. Idk, maybe I'm a little more stingy on who I classify as a star.
 

Atomos2

Registered User
Jun 28, 2012
16,488
2,727
Toronto, Ontario
I'm not gonna bother pointing out the years difference. My entire point is that while Marner had a great year, he's not a star yet. Idk, maybe I'm a little more stingy on who I classify as a star.
I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument. The years difference doesn't mean a thing when you are discussing whose better. Just like you were saying, Marner's isn't a star yet. If Marner isn't a star yet, then Horvat is no better than Bozak yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Steps

GoodbyeLuongo

Registered User
Jun 8, 2012
1,927
638
Seattle
I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument. The years difference doesn't mean a thing when you are discussing whose better. Just like you were saying, Marner's isn't a star yet. If Marner isn't a star yet, then Horvat is no better than Bozak yet.

I see what you're saying, that's a fair point.
 

GoodbyeLuongo

Registered User
Jun 8, 2012
1,927
638
Seattle
Thanks. I'm of the opinion Marner is a clear star and I believe Horvat is way better than Bozak. But a lot of this could be left up to opinion depending on how someone interprets the stats.

Very true. I'm just very picky on who I say is a star. I totally believe Marner will be but in my personal classification he isn't yet. I also don't consider more than 15 players to be stars personally.
 

Hockey down under

Registered User
Feb 13, 2017
272
45
Another homer Nucks fan smh. Yeah Leivo has spent time with future HHOFers like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly, Kadri, Andersen, and Kapanen. JVR and Bozak have an outside shot at it too. That sort of competition is worth wayyyyyy more than having to beat out the bums on the Canucks roster like Boeser did.

I'm a Canucks fan too but just try to be more neutral :sarcasm:

My sarcasm detector has been broken for a while but I think it just came to life a bit there. Good to know
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->