Tanenbaum criticized at BOG meeting

[Ziggy Stardust]

Not that I want to prevent anyone from fantasizing, but I believe ALL NHL team names and logos are sole property of the National Hockey League. So no, the "Maple Leafs" cannot disband from the NHL and form their own league. The current Leafs owner can sell the team if he'd like and start up whatever league he wants that hardly anybody will notice.

 

[me2]

First it will not happen that the leafs would leave ..

but just for fun Isn't Hamilton a possible WHA team NOW ?? SO perhaps the rink is already reserved ..

The Leafs could also take the or Convince the Canadian teams to join its new ALL League

They could have Teams in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec ..

Think about that .. The CBC and TSN and Rogers Sportsnet would fight for the TV rights .. The CHL(OHL, WHL, QMJHL) could be the feeder systems as the Canadian kids stay in their own Countries ..

Many of the Canadian born NHLers playing in the states may return to play near home .. (J. Sakic, P.Kariya, S.Niedermayer for example to Vancouver) ..

Which league would have the biggest following and fan support the remaining 24 US NHL teams or the New Canadian NHL (its own CFL equivalent if you like) ..

I presume the Canadian teams are the existing NHL teams? If they are WHA startups they have a snowball's chance in hell of being successful in NHL team markets if they are going up against the existing Habs, Nucks etc.

So Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton and Quebec are going to try to spend at Toronto's salary level. I'd like to know how. So are the Leafs, Ottawa, Habs & Nucks going to share revenue at 75% just so the other teams can compete? Can't say the Teachers fund would be happy about giving up $30m-40m per year in revenue sharing.

Or is this league going to set a $30m payroll cap?

So how does this help the majority of the union? Even the Canadian players are jammed onto teams and won't make a great lot of money because of the sheer numbers of stars on each team.

In fact some of those non-tradional US markets would have a real tough time surviving IMO without the Canadian Teams IMO .. Soon you might only have a dozen left in the NHL as some fall by the wayside ..

I can't believe Goodenow would sell out 33-66% of his union just for the sake of "not losing". No, actually I can.

I still find it hard to believe that the 6 Canadian teams are going to let the US courts decide the future of the 6 NHL teams, with different labour laws and Immegration laws ..

I guess they could leave, but there wouldn't be any Stanley Cup for them to aspire to.

 

[Mess]

I presume the Canadian teams are the existing NHL teams? If they are WHA startups they have a snowball's chance in hell of being successful in NHL team markets if they are going up against the existing Habs, Nucks etc.

So Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton and Quebec are going to try to spend at Toronto's salary level. I'd like to know how. So are the Leafs, Ottawa, Habs & Nucks going to share revenue at 75% just so the other teams can compete? Can't say the Teachers fund would be happy about giving up $30m-40m per year in revenue sharing.

Or is this league going to set a $30m payroll cap?

So how does this help the majority of the union? Even the Canadian players are jammed onto teams and won't make a great lot of money because of the sheer numbers of stars on each team.

I can't believe Goodenow would sell out 33-66% of his union just for the sake of "not losing". No, actually I can.

I guess they could leave, but there wouldn't be any Stanley Cup for them to aspire to.

What would happen in The Leafs spearhead and by leaving the NHL and taking the other Canadian Owners to form its own league ..

They could have Teams in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec ..

Think about that .. The CBC and TSN and Rogers Sportsnet would fight for the TV rights ..

The CHL(OHL, WHL, QMJHL) could be the feeder systems as the Canadian kids stay in their own Countries ..

Many of the Canadian born NHLers playing in the states may return to play near home ..

Could welcome Euro's freely or limit them per team to promote Canadian opportunities for young hockey Players ..

Which league would have the biggest following and fan support the remaining 24 US NHL teams or the New Canadian NHL (its own CFL equivalent if you like) ..

Teams could even agree to play 10 games in other Areana's throughout Canada .. St. Johns, Victoria, Regina, Kelowna, Brandon, Halifax, Saskatoon etc etc .. to create excitment ..

Hey Maybe those guys that wanted the whole NHL would be interested in investing some of those billions in this league ... or maybe even by the TV and promotion rights and make millions in return .

Bain Capital Partners and Game Plan International - both based in Boston - could Partner with MLSE and run the league.

If they could offer the other 8 franchises a guaranteed profit ..

Lucarative endorsments and Sponsoships and Advetising could bring in the $$$

Bring on the Canadian NHL .. Would it work ?

 

[wazee]

What would happen in The Leafs spearhead and by leaving the NHL and taking the other Canadian Owners to form its own league ..

They could have Teams in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec ..

Think about that .. The CBC and TSN and Rogers Sportsnet would fight for the TV rights ..

The CHL(OHL, WHL, QMJHL) could be the feeder systems as the Canadian kids stay in their own Countries ..

Many of the Canadian born NHLers playing in the states may return to play near home ..

Could welcome Euro's freely or limit them per team to promote Canadian opportunities for young hockey Players ..

Which league would have the biggest following and fan support the remaining 24 US NHL teams or the New Canadian NHL (its own CFL equivalent if you like) ..

Teams could even agree to play 10 games in other Areana's throughout Canada .. St. Johns, Victoria, Regina, Kelowna, Brandon, Halifax, Saskatoon etc etc .. to create excitment ..

Hey Maybe those guys that wanted the whole NHL would be interested in investing some of those billions in this league ... or maybe even by the TV and promotion rights and make millions in return .

Bain Capital Partners and Game Plan International - both based in Boston - could Partner with MLSE and run the league.

If they could offer the other 8 franchises a guaranteed profit ..

Lucarative endorsments and Sponsoships and Advetising could bring in the $$$

Bring on the Canadian NHL .. Would it work ?

Why would the 5 other Canadian teams follow the Leafs' lead and leave the NHL?

Why would the Canadian networks pay more for TV rights than they did in the past? Canadian TV revenue is not shared with US teams anyway, so it is not like the pool of money is going to be greater than it was last year.

This idea is even more far-fetched that the European league...

 

[me2]

What would happen in The Leafs spearhead and by leaving the NHL and taking the other Canadian Owners to form its own league ..

They could have Teams in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec ..

Think about that .. The CBC and TSN and Rogers Sportsnet would fight for the TV rights ..

The CHL(OHL, WHL, QMJHL) could be the feeder systems as the Canadian kids stay in their own Countries ..

Many of the Canadian born NHLers playing in the states may return to play near home ..

Could welcome Euro's freely or limit them per team to promote Canadian opportunities for young hockey Players ..

Teams could even agree to play 10 games in other Areana's throughout Canada .. St. Johns, Victoria, Regina, Kelowna, Brandon, Halifax, Saskatoon etc etc .. to create excitment ..

If they could offer the other 8 franchises a guaranteed profit ..

Lucarative endorsments and Sponsoships and Advetising could bring in the $$$

Bring on the Canadian NHL .. Would it work ?

Only if they bleed $40-60m from the leafs to make it viable. If they don't bleed money then the poorer teams would need $20m-25m caps.

Hey Maybe those guys that wanted the whole NHL would be interested in investing some of those billions in this league ... or maybe even by the TV and promotion rights and make millions in return .

Bain Capital Partners and Game Plan International - both based in Boston - could Partner with MLSE and run the league.

Or the NHL could cave in to the players offer of $49m cap. The NHL tell the Leafs they are a WHA team and are not welcome back into the NHL. The WHA folds under financial pressure because the NHL is back. The Leafs apply to the AHL for somewhere to play. The NHL asks for bids to start a team in TO.

 

[djhn579]

Only if they bleed $40-60m from the leafs to make it viable. If they don't bleed money then the poorer teams would need $20m-25m caps.



Or the NHL could cave in to the players offer of $49m cap. The WHA folds under financial pressure. The NHL tell the Leafs they are a WHA team and are not welcome back into the NHL.

Or tell the Leafs that the entrance fee is now $500M and they must share 20% of team revenues if they want back in the NHL...

(okay, a little bit extreme, but they could make it expensive just to make a point...)

 

[YellHockey*]

.....

My Gawd BlackRedGold.........."The corporate fat cats that buy up the prime seats at the ACC aren't going to travel all the way to Hamilton to watch a game?".......Hamilton is only 45-minutes south of Toronto.......Ya, It's true............buy yourself a map and check it out yourself........Oh ya......one more thing before I forget, there's plenty of "corporate fat cats" on this side of Southern Ontario as well :lol

Look it up on Mapquest. It's an hour drive and that's without factoring in rush hour traffic.

Hamilton full of corporate fat cats? That's a good one. Everyone knows its a steel town that's seen better days. It would be in major decline if it weren't for it proximity to Toronto.

 

[Habs Icing]

Where would the NHL put a team in Toronto? The only option would be Rogers Center and a dome stadium isn't going to cut it for the NHL when baseball starts up.

Do you really think it would be easy to just build a new arena in Toronto? It would take years. And that's assuming they could find land that would make it cost effective to do so.

By the time it got built, the Leafs would have made their league the dominant league in Toronto.

I can not believe the bravado of Toronto fans.

 

[YellHockey*]

Why would the 5 other Canadian teams follow the Leafs' lead and leave the NHL?

Why would the Canadian networks pay more for TV rights than they did in the past? Canadian TV revenue is not shared with US teams anyway, so it is not like the pool of money is going to be greater than it was last year.

Yes it is shared with the US teams. All national tv deals are shared equally among all 30 franchises. The Canadian national tv deals are higher in proportion to the number of Canadian teams then the US deal is to the number of US teams. And the disparity is growing.

By only having Canadian teams, CBC and TSN would no longer have to feature games with American teams. This would improve ratings and increased ratings mean more $$$.

 

[YellHockey*]

I can not believe the bravado of Toronto fans.

I can't believe you can't understand something that's pretty simple coming from an avowed Leaf hater.

 

[Habs Icing]

I can't believe you can't understand something that's pretty simple coming from an avowed Leaf hater.

Look if Toronto leaves the NHL, which they won't, who are they gonna play? The Sudbury Owls, the London Muskrats or are you pinning your hopes on the Winnipeg Jets II and the Quebec Nordiques II?

If Toronto leaves the NHL, they'll leave alone. No one will follow them. And who will the Maple Leafs play with? Themselves? There's a name for that but I don't think I'm allowed to use it on this board.

 

[YellHockey*]

Look if Toronto leaves the NHL, which they won't, who are they gonna play? The Sudbury Owls, the London Muskrats or are you pinning your hopes on the Winnipeg Jets II and the Quebec Nordiques II?

There are facilities in Hamilton, Quebec City, Winnipeg, and Vancouver that are viable and not under NHL control. There are also facilities in Ottawa, London, and Halifax that could work short term that are not under NHL control. And that's if they're just thinking about Canada only. In the US, there are plenty of viable facilities to use.

If Toronto leaves the NHL, they'll leave alone. No one will follow them. And who will the Maple Leafs play with? Themselves? There's a name for that but I don't think I'm allowed to use it on this board.

How do you know they'll go alone? Do you think every other owner believes that Bettman leading is the best thing for them? If so, who leaked the article to the Sun? If the owners, except for MLSE, are united, and it is in their best interest to present a united front, who leaked the article and who are the multiple sources that confirmed it? After all, it was an owners only meeting.

And the Leafs might have the best thing of all follow them - the players. Without the players, the NHL is nothing. With the players and the Leafs, a new league is VERY viable.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

If Toronto left the new league would have teams in all major centres, not just a league based in Canada (that would be dumb!). If the owners of teams in Chicago, Boston, etc weren't going to follow, teams that want to compete in the real league but are in weak US markets could move their franchises into major US centres and go head to head with the teams in the tattered remains of the NHL. I have no doubt that the spending league would put the remnants of the NHL out of business.

And if you think it couldn't happen, look at it this way: if the NHL doesn't have their backyard cleaned up by September, do you think the teams that can actually generate revenue are going to want to piss away another years of making money to try and help idiots like Peter Karmanos who thought he could make a go of it in Nascar country? I highly doubt it.

 

[Lowetide]

If Toronto left the new league would have teams in all major centres, not just a league based in Canada (that would be dumb!). If the owners of teams in Chicago, Boston, etc weren't going to follow, teams that want to compete in the real league but are in weak US markets could move their franchises into major US centres and go head to head with the teams in the tattered remains of the NHL. I have no doubt that the spending league would put the remnants of the NHL out of business.

And if you think it couldn't happen, look at it this way: if the NHL doesn't have their backyard cleaned up by September, do you think the teams that can actually generate revenue are going to want to piss away another years of making money to try and help idiots like Peter Karmanos who thought he could make a go of it in Nascar country? I highly doubt it.

I really don't think it's such a bad idea. Toronto clearly is not happy having their ability to spend money as they see fit curtailed and who can blame them? They have the dollars to be the New York Yankees and someday they'll get the management that understands the Yankees procure talent through the draft and scouting as well as free agents.

I don't think a Superleague of 12 teams is a terrible idea. Toronto, Montreal, New York times two, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Colorado, Los Angeles, who have I missed? Could Vancouver compete in that league? You'd need six teams in the west, so that's Detroit, Chicago, Colorado, LA, Vancouver and who? Dallas? St. Louis? Another team in LA?

St. Louis I'd guess.

It is not a bad idea, and imo the split between Toronto and the other NHL owners is at least as large as the split between owners and players. The Leafs need to find 11 billionaires who don't mind seeing them win the championship every year, and that should be easier than getting these small marker owners to lose millions.

 

[Habs Icing]

With the players and the Leafs, a new league is VERY viable.

This kinda of nonsense may pass in Canada where Toronto thinks it's the centre of the world. But it's downright laughable when you look at it from a North American perspective.

Philly, Colorado, Boston, Montreal, Dallas, Rangers, N.J., Chicago, Detroit are all shaking in their boots worried that Toronto might leave. Please. If T.O. does go crazy and leave, the NHL will have two or three franchises in the Ontario market quicker than you can say make believes.

 

[YellHockey*]

If Toronto left the new league would have teams in all major centres, not just a league based in Canada (that would be dumb!). If the owners of teams in Chicago, Boston, etc weren't going to follow, teams that want to compete in the real league but are in weak US markets could move their franchises into major US centres and go head to head with the teams in the tattered remains of the NHL. I have no doubt that the spending league would put the remnants of the NHL out of business.

The main reason why I think it would be based in Canada is because Canada has shown a willingness to watch hockey nationwide. In the US, the number of centers willing to watch hockey isn't high enough to get a serious national tv deal.

That being said, you could see small market teams moving to bigger markets to oppose the NHL. Since Bill Davidson already owns the Pistons, what's to stop him from moving his Lightning to the Palace in Detroit? Either the Red Wings would have to join the Leafs in a new league or fight off a serious competitor.

In Minnesota a team could move into the Target Centre and go after the Wild. And I can't imagine that this lockout is doing much good for the Wild considering they're one of the most profitable teams in the league.

Unfortunately, some of the other good hockey markets, like Denver, Boston and Philly, would have the viable rinks secured.

I don't know what the building the AHL Chicago Wolves play in is like but if there was ever a city that would embrace a franchise in a startup league, it would be Chicago.

 

[YellHockey*]

This kinda of nonsense may pass in Canada where Toronto thinks it's the centre of the world. But it's downright laughable when you look at it from a North American perspective.

Philly, Colorado, Boston, Montreal, Dallas, Rangers, N.J., Chicago, Detroit are all shaking in their boots worried that Toronto might leave. Please. If T.O. does go crazy and leave, the NHL will have two or three franchises in the Ontario market quicker than you can say make believes.

Who has the biggest broadcast deals with the NHL? TSN and CBC. Who does TSN own a part of? Who does CBC broadcast every Saturday night?

And where does the NHL put these two or three franchises in Ontario? Where do they play out of? How do they compete with a team that doesn't have a cap on how much it can pay its players?

And how does the league get a CBA deal done when there's suddenly a viable alternate league for players to play in? The Leafs forming their own league just increases the players' bargaining power.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

Philly, Colorado, Boston, Montreal, Dallas, Rangers, N.J., Chicago, Detroit are all shaking in their boots worried that Toronto might leave. Please. If T.O. does go crazy and leave, the NHL will have two or three franchises in the Ontario market quicker than you can say make believes.

They wouldn't be shaking in their boots, they would be asking where do we sign up? Like it or not, Toronto is the Centre of the NHL universe. The NHL can stick 2 or 3 franchises wherever the hell they want, but their credibility and their foundation would crumble without their cornerstone franchise and those that would follow them. It isn't those franchises that created the mess; it is the small market teams that couldn't keep up with the Jones' and the cheap bastards running chicago and Boston into the ground (BTW, Boston was responsible for 25% of the contracts that ruined the NHL economic climate according to one article.)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Maybe I have to repeat myself again... THE MAPLE LEAFS CANNOT DISBAND FROM THE NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE!
They have their own ownership group, but they cannot decide to disband from the NHL and form their own league. The Leafs logo and name is property of the National Hockey League. I hope this puts an end to this silly debate of the Leafs starting a super league.

 

[Wetcoaster]

The Leafs logo and name is property of the National Hockey League. I hope this puts an end to this silly debate of the Leafs starting a super league.

No they are not - they are owned by MLSE. Do a trademark search - it is free.

 

[ScottyBowman]

I acknowledge that Toronto is the best market for hockey but to say that they can just get up and leave is ridiculous. Who the heck would they play? I can't see other teams disbanding from hockey because Toronto left and it is likely that the NHL would just throw in another franchise.

 

[JKP]

A moron who paid Yashin $10 million.

I could go on about other teams whos signings are much worse then any deal the TMLs have made. If I were Larry I would've told certain members to **** and run their businesses better.

Oh how it pains me to try to do this, but I'll attempt to defend the Yashin signing...

The owner bought the team out of civic pride (he was an admitted non-hockey fan) to keep them on the Island and bring stability to a once Dynasty that had fallen on a series of very s****y owners in the 90s.

To prove to fans he was serious about rebuilding our nearly AHL franchise, he authorized deals for Peca, Yashin and Osgood. He signed Yashin to a 10-yr $85M deal that he himself apparently came up with the term and number to make a commitment to fans to have a franchise player they could build the team around for the next 10 years.

For a variety of reasons, in hindsight it doesn't look too good. But at the time, as a fan, it was a ray of hope after years of abuse by absentee, crooked and only-looking-for-the-development-deal owners. But, the way salaries were going, locking in a once and potentially future superstar in for an average of 8.5M wasn't a bad idea.

New owner trying to make good for the long-suffering fans of a once glorious franchise. And it did work that first year. Made the playoffs after a long drought, got off to the hot start , had great attendance and resurrected a franchise on life-support. So I'll say, well-done Mr. Wang and thanks for saving our franchise (and for writing the $20M cheques each year while the league tries to get sorted out and you try to get a better lease)!

 

[AM]

this should tell the players something

That doesn't really have anything to do with it. The Leafs are ticked off they're not playing this year and just want this solved. I don't think they really care how it gets solved, because unlike all the other "stupidly" controlled teams, each cancelled game/season is profit that they will not see again.

If the NHL were making money the deal woulda been done along time ago.

 

[Steve L*]

Your team is in worse cap shape than ours at the moment.

How so? We have two very good young goalies and 3 prospects Leaf fans can only dream of in Pitkanen, Carter and Richards.

The funny thing is the over priced vets on the Flyers (Amonte, LeClair, Burke) are some of the worst players on the team whereas the overpriced vets on the Leafs make up the core of their squad.

Take out the vets and put in the young guys and the Flyers improve and the Leafs get a lot worse. :lol

 

[mooseOAK*]

How so? We have two very good young goalies and 3 prospects Leaf fans can only dream of in Pitkanen, Carter and Richards.

The funny thing is the over priced vets on the Flyers (Amonte, LeClair, Burke) are some of the worst players on the team whereas the overpriced vets on the Leafs make up the core of their squad.

Take out the vets and put in the young guys and the Flyers improve and the Leafs get a lot worse. :lol

Four out of the five top scorers for the Flyers last season were overpaid veterans. I love how Philly fans think that Carter and Richards are going to step into the league and automatically be stars. They aren't.