Tanenbaum criticized at BOG meeting

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Tinordi24*

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CC_Tigers said:
Mayor of MacAppolis said:
Nobody could have predicted the Khristich signing would work out as awful as it did


I hereby nominate as the most ridiculous statement contained in this thread.
Any Caps, Bruins or Kings fans care jump aboard?

I would have never figured that Fishstick would have been worth a penny less and the $3 mil or so the arbitrator awarded him...never...never....

:dunce:
 

MacDaddy TLC*

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CC_Tigers said:
Mayor of MacAppolis said:
You can nominate it, but your post just took the prize. Khristich was a near point/game player before the colossal failure in Toronto. Nice try though, kid.
Mayor of MacAppolis said:
For all your hockey knowledge, I'm surprised you're taking sucjh a narrow view of Kristich's 'value'...the points were always there...but given his well documented history of lacking effort and heart, as well as a rather malignant locker room presence and a poor response to coaching, many would have predicted the poor outcome of his signing...
The Leafs needed offensive help. They had the heart guys, but talent was lacking once you got past Sundin. It isn't the Khrsitich signing that sucked. It was the boneheaded move to let Sullivan go to make room for him. Surely they could have found another guy to cut loose.

BTW, welcome to the board. Funny that your first two posts were an attempt at taking me down. Don't worry though, many others have tried and failed too. :lol
 

wazee

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Mayor of MacAppolis said:
It would be an 8-12 team league featuring all the best talent in the World. It is the other 18-22 teams that aren't viable.

Assuming a new league that would play under the old CBA, I think you could get 4 teams...Leafs, Rangers, Flyers (if they could get over letting Goodenow win) and the Wings.

If you put in a 45M cap, you might get 4-8 others...but a 45M cap is not on the table at this time. And if you can get to a 45M cap, you might as well go for 42.5 and save yourself the 100M per franchise that it is going to cost to buy out the other 18 to 22 franchises.
 

Vaive-Alive

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CC_Tigers said:
Mayor of MacAppolis said:
Nobody could have predicted the Khristich signing would work out as awful as it did


I hereby nominate as the most ridiculous statement contained in this thread.
Any Caps, Bruins or Kings fans care jump aboard?

Hindsight may be 20-20, but at the time no one expected him to perform so poorly. Before coming to the Leafs - he had averaged approximately 0.85 pts per game over his previous 9 seasons. Played very well in Washington and later in Boston. He wasn't even too bad in LA.

I strongly suggest you think before you post.
 

Larionov

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Icey said:
They most certainly aren't alone in their views. Its one thing to be standing their ground and another thing completly to want to play. Teams like Detroit, Philadelphia, Dallas, Colorado, NY Rangers are all pissed off that a deal wasn't done. They want to play. These are all teams that are losing more money by not playing than by playing. TO was the only one who had the balls to stand up and say so. But come this summer if a deal is not on the horizon I can bet you these other teams will be screaming. I doubt Tom Hicks wants to pay another $6M arena fee to an empty arena, and that is what this season cost him in arena fees, $6M.

The "divided owners" theory has been the 'PA's favourite chestnut through this whole dispute. There's only one problem, however -- it's not true.

Would some of the teams named above like to be playing right now? Damn straight -- they would all like to be playing. No one is happy about this dispute. You are ignoring, however, the fact that the first three teams you named -- Dallas, Detroit, and Philly -- have all stood by the Bargaining Committee 100% and been very vocal in their support. 'PA supporters would like to believe that a number of teams were screaming for peace at any price behind closed doors, but it flatly isn't true. If it was, you would have heard about it, just as you heard about Tannenbaum's views and subsequent flogging.

As this thing heads to impasse and replacement players, ask yourself whose shoes you would rather be in -- the billionaire owners, or the 'PA, with the majority of their members without a contract for '05-'06...
 

Vaive-Alive

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CC_Tigers said:
Mayor of MacAppolis said:
You can nominate it, but your post just took the prize. Khristich was a near point/game player before the colossal failure in Toronto. Nice try though, kid.
Mayor of MacAppolis said:
...but given his well documented history of lacking effort and heart, as well as a rather malignant locker room presence and a poor response to coaching, many would have predicted the poor outcome of his signing...

Well, apparently not LA or Boston after WAS - so whats so surprising that the Leafs followed suit? They wanted his production. period.
 

CC_Tigers

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Vaive-Alive said:
Hindsight may be 20-20, but at the time no one expected him to perform so poorly. Before coming to the Leafs - he had averaged approximately 0.85 pts per game over his previous 9 seasons. Played very well in Washington and later in Boston. He wasn't even too bad in LA.

I strongly suggest you think before you post.


See above post regarding Kristich's 'intangibles', or lack thereof. I know many players get traded all over the league, but did you ever stop to wonder why Washington and LA were so glad to ship him off elsewhere, and why Boston walked away from the arbitrator's ruling? (actually I shouldn't be surprised...Boston never wants to pay anyone...other than Martin LaPointe)
 

Kritter471

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Tom Hicks (*cursecursemutter*) is most definitely in support of a linked, hard cap. There's a big rumor down here in Dallas that he lost a lot of his money in the econimic issues around 2001-2002. He came out in the Dallas Morning News today and said something to the effect of "if more people come to the Rangers (MLB's Texas Rangers) games, I'll think about increasing the payroll budget. But we have to bring in more revenue to do that." Ticked a lot of people off.

Yeah, I know he offered/signed Bill Guerin and Pierre Turgeon (and in MLB, Chan Ho Park and Alex Rodriguez) to hefty contracts for well more than the player's were worth, but he's done a big 180.

My guess as to who the second team is? Colorado.
 

YellHockey*

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Mayor of MacAppolis said:
It would be an 8-12 team league featuring all the best talent in the World. It is the other 18-22 teams that aren't viable.

Heck, the Leafs could start small and then work up to a 20+ team league.

As much as a despise them, the Leafs are the most powerful franchise in the league. If they left to start their own league, it's not inconceiveable that they could put the NHL out of business.

Because Bell Globemedia owns a piece of the Leafs that would mean their league would supplant the NHL at TSN. They could also force CBC to make a decision, broadcast the Leafs or the NHL. If the CBC chose the NHL, the Leafs could go head-to-head against them on CTV.

Meanwhile the NHL is missing the best hockey market in the world and their Canadian broadcast revenues go down. The NHL doesn't get their salary cap since they can't afford to with a hungry competitor going after their talent. They'd either have to give in the PA or they'd be offering up scabs while the Leafs' league features games with the best hockey players in the world.
 

djhn579

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BlackRedGold said:
Heck, the Leafs could start small and then work up to a 20+ team league.

As much as a despise them, the Leafs are the most powerful franchise in the league. If they left to start their own league, it's not inconceiveable that they could put the NHL out of business.

Because Bell Globemedia owns a piece of the Leafs that would mean their league would supplant the NHL at TSN. They could also force CBC to make a decision, broadcast the Leafs or the NHL. If the CBC chose the NHL, the Leafs could go head-to-head against them on CTV.

Meanwhile the NHL is missing the best hockey market in the world and their Canadian broadcast revenues go down. The NHL doesn't get their salary cap since they can't afford to with a hungry competitor going after their talent. They'd either have to give in the PA or they'd be offering up scabs while the Leafs' league features games with the best hockey players in the world.

And you don't think that if the Leaf's decided to leave the NHL, The NHL would not immediately move to put an NHL team there, even if they had to build a new arena from the ground up? And the Leaf's would not be taking the cup with them. Isn't that what many players work so hard for?
 

SedinFan*

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arnie said:
The Leafs have continually thumbed their nose at the NHL and tried to undermine their baragining position. They went out and comitted over $40 million on payroll for this year (with stil other players to sign) when the league was saying that they wanted a $33 million salary cap.

The Leafs are the one team that is losing big time from the lockout. With a new CBA containing a low salary cap, they won't be able to go out and cover their mismanagement by simply buying players as they have done over the last 5 years. Its is hardly surprising that they are whining the loudest.

Well said. The core of their team is rather old to say the least.
 

Charge_Seven

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djhn579 said:
And you don't think that if the Leaf's decided to leave the NHL, The NHL would not immediately move to put an NHL team there, even if they had to build a new arena from the ground up? And the Leaf's would not be taking the cup with them. Isn't that what many players work so hard for?

No new team would sell in the market. If the Leafs left the NHL, the WHA would suddenly have a franchise with some history behind it, and it'd get a kick start, and a Toronto franchise.

That being said, the Leafs aren't about to leave the NHL.
 

djhn579

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GregStack said:
No new team would sell in the market. If the Leafs left the NHL, the WHA would suddenly have a franchise with some history behind it, and it'd get a kick start, and a Toronto franchise.

That being said, the Leafs aren't about to leave the NHL.

If it came to a Leafs team that played in a 5 - 10 team league, that could not compete for the cup, tehy would still get everybodies support in Toronto? Even when there would be a team that played in the NHL that did compete for the cup? I don't think support for the new team could be discounted out of hand.

I agree though that it is very unlikely that any teams will leave the NHL any time soon, especially the Leafs.
 

Charge_Seven

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djhn579 said:
If it came to a Leafs team that played in a 5 - 10 team league, that could not compete for the cup, tehy would still get everybodies support in Toronto? Even when there would be a team that played in the NHL that did compete for the cup? I don't think support for the new team could be discounted out of hand.

I agree though that it is very unlikely that any teams will leave the NHL any time soon, especially the Leafs.

I simply mean they wouldn't draw the same crowd.

It'd be very likely they'd still outdraw the AHL Toronto team. They could still expect to get 10-13 thousand attendance, But the Toronto Maple Leafs, the original franchise would have better turnouts.
 

Riggins

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Mayor of MacAppolis said:
The Belfour signing was the most important and necessary of the three. If they didn't sign him, do you think the Senators after trading Lali,e would have been interewsted in a moody, drunk, criminal out of the Czech Republic

Just wanted to point out that you label Hasek as a moody drunk but fail to say the same thing about Belfour.
 

YellHockey*

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djhn579 said:
And you don't think that if the Leaf's decided to leave the NHL, The NHL would not immediately move to put an NHL team there, even if they had to build a new arena from the ground up? And the Leaf's would not be taking the cup with them. Isn't that what many players work so hard for?

Where would the NHL put a team in Toronto? The only option would be Rogers Center and a dome stadium isn't going to cut it for the NHL when baseball starts up.

Do you really think it would be easy to just build a new arena in Toronto? It would take years. And that's assuming they could find land that would make it cost effective to do so.

By the time it got built, the Leafs would have made their league the dominant league in Toronto.
 

Wetcoaster

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BlackRedGold said:
Where would the NHL put a team in Toronto? The only option would be Rogers Center and a dome stadium isn't going to cut it for the NHL when baseball starts up.

Do you really think it would be easy to just build a new arena in Toronto? It would take years. And that's assuming they could find land that would make it cost effective to do so.

By the time it got built, the Leafs would have made their league the dominant league in Toronto.
They could always play their "home games" at Copps in Hamilton :joker:
 

djhn579

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BlackRedGold said:
Where would the NHL put a team in Toronto? The only option would be Rogers Center and a dome stadium isn't going to cut it for the NHL when baseball starts up.

Do you really think it would be easy to just build a new arena in Toronto? It would take years. And that's assuming they could find land that would make it cost effective to do so.

By the time it got built, the Leafs would have made their league the dominant league in Toronto.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but that goes for both sides. Copps might be an option while a new arena is being built, but you can guarantee the NHL would be fighting hard for the Toronto market if the Leafs leave. The market itself is too important to hockey to leave it to a separate league.
 

MacDaddy TLC*

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djhn579 said:
And the Leaf's would not be taking the cup with them. Isn't that what many players work so hard for?
Actually what the players want (and I can't believe I actually have to say this) is MONEY. I can't say they work hard for it, but they would follow the money!
 

YellHockey*

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djhn579 said:
I'm not saying it will be easy, but that goes for both sides. Copps might be an option while a new arena is being built, but you can guarantee the NHL would be fighting hard for the Toronto market if the Leafs leave. The market itself is too important to hockey to leave it to a separate league.

What could the NHL do? Copps isn't an option since it isn't even in Toronto. The corporate fat cats that buy up the prime seats at the ACC aren't going to travel all the way to Hamilton to watch a game.

How can the NHL fight hard? They'll have a salary cap so the Leafs will always be able to afford better players then any new Toronto franchise. Or will they just not have the salary cap apply to Toronto? Or will they give up on the salary cap that cost the fans this season?

What strategy could the NHL possibly utilize that would allow them to defeat the Leafs if they left the NHL? Remember the fans cheer for the logo on the sweater, not the President of the league.
 

monkey_00*

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BlackRedGold said:
What could the NHL do? Copps isn't an option since it isn't even in Toronto. The corporate fat cats that buy up the prime seats at the ACC aren't going to travel all the way to Hamilton to watch a game.

How can the NHL fight hard? They'll have a salary cap so the Leafs will always be able to afford better players then any new Toronto franchise. Or will they just not have the salary cap apply to Toronto? Or will they give up on the salary cap that cost the fans this season?

What strategy could the NHL possibly utilize that would allow them to defeat the Leafs if they left the NHL? Remember the fans cheer for the logo on the sweater, not the President of the league.

BlackRedGold.............

My Gawd BlackRedGold.........."The corporate fat cats that buy up the prime seats at the ACC aren't going to travel all the way to Hamilton to watch a game?".......Hamilton is only 45-minutes south of Toronto.......Ya, It's true............buy yourself a map and check it out yourself........Oh ya......one more thing before I forget, there's plenty of "corporate fat cats" on this side of Southern Ontario as well :lol :lol: :joker:
 

me2

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GregStack said:
No new team would sell in the market. If the Leafs left the NHL, the WHA would suddenly have a franchise with some history behind it, and it'd get a kick start, and a Toronto franchise.

That being said, the Leafs aren't about to leave the NHL.

There would be a new NHL team in Hamilton in the blink of an eye. Leafs compete for WHA cup or whateever, NHL teams compete for the Stanley Cup. Leafs might actually win it all that year.

Would the leafs survive? Yes. Would they prosper, not quite as much as they would under a capped NHL, but they'd do just fine.

In the end though, the Leafs would want back into the NHL and now they have Hamilton as a competitior.
 
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me2

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Mayor of MacAppolis said:
Yes, but if they want revenue sharing, concessions will need to be made. (Revenue sharing is total ******** --- why should the strong have to support the weak? Why not just form their own league and let the weak die?)


Their own league? What other teams? Are they going to play every game in the Toronto? How are the other teams going to match Toronto's spending power? Massive revenue sharing to bleed the leafs and prop up the other teams? $20m caps? :dunno:
 

Mess

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me2 said:
There would be a new NHL team in Hamilton in the blink of an eye. Leafs compete for WHA cup, other team competes for the Stanley Cup.

Would the leafs survive? Yes. Would they prosper, not quite as much as they would under a capped NHL, but they'd do just fine.

In the end though, the Leafs would want back into the NHL and now they have Hamilton as a competitior.
First it will not happen that the leafs would leave ..

but just for fun Isn't Hamilton a possible WHA team NOW ?? SO perhaps the rink is already reserved ..

The Leafs could also take the or Convince the Canadian teams to join its new ALL League

They could have Teams in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec ..

Think about that .. The CBC and TSN and Rogers Sportsnet would fight for the TV rights .. The CHL(OHL, WHL, QMJHL) could be the feeder systems as the Canadian kids stay in their own Countries ..

Many of the Canadian born NHLers playing in the states may return to play near home .. (J. Sakic, P.Kariya, S.Niedermayer for example to Vancouver) ..

Which league would have the biggest following and fan support the remaining 24 US NHL teams or the New Canadian NHL (its own CFL equivalent if you like) ..

In fact some of those non-tradional US markets would have a real tough time surviving IMO without the Canadian Teams IMO .. Soon you might only have a dozen left in the NHL as some fall by the wayside ..

Hey Maybe those guys that wanted the whole NHL would interested in investing some of those billions in this league ... or maybe even by the tv and promotion rights and make millions in return ..

I still find it hard to believe that the 6 Canadian teams are going to let the US courts decide the future of the 6 NHL teams, with different labour laws and Immegration laws ..
 
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