Swingstein Breaks Off Negotiations with Flames

Discussion in 'HFNHL Talk' started by Dr.Sens(e), Dec 29, 2005.

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  1. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    (AP) Calgary: Reggie Swingstein, the high profile super agent for youngster Jason Williams, has broken off contract negotiations regarding the young forward before they seemingly even started with the Calgary Flames.

    "We will not be listening to any more offers from Calgary until free agency arrives", stated Swingstein.

    The Flames submitted a number of offers to Swingstein’s clients, mostly pending restricted free agents, and the offer to Williams was deemed insulting enough that Swingstein no longer wants to deal with Calgary when it comes to the young winger.

    “We’ll let Jason focus on hockey for the remainder of the year, and his contract will get taken care of in the summerâ€.

    “And you can be sure he’ll make a hell of a lot more money next year than what they offered. It’s up to Calgary to decide whether they will be paying Williams or another teamâ€

    Williams is having a break out year averaging close to a point per game, and it is believed the Flames proposed long-term deal was barely above the league minimum.

    “Let this be a message to all General Managers out there – you can’t simply pay the elite young player peanuts any moreâ€, boomed Swingstein in an ad hoc press gathering in the bar of the Calgary Airport.

    “This is a kid who has given everything to make the NHL and has now proven he is an impact player. If they won’t pay him what he’s worth, well I’m sure there a few GM’s out East who will.â€

    The Flames were pilfered during free agency last year, ultimately losing restricted free agents Ilya Kovalchuk to New Jersey, and Roberto Luongo to the Ottawa Senators, as the team was without the funds to match the lucrative signing bonuses offered by General Managers Rich Epstein and Keith Fernandes, respectively.

    Asked if this was the beginning of a new negotiating ploy on behalf of his agency, Swingstein quickly defended the stance as his only recourse.

    “If other General Managers try the same bottom-of-the-barrel first offer tactic, I’ll do the same thing to protect my clients interests. We simply can’t consider such a low market value for impact playersâ€

    There was no immediate response from the Flames front office, although it is expected they will address the media on this issue at some point.
     
  2. Dryden

    Dryden Registered User

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    I see another lockout coming
     
  3. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    since when ?
     
  4. Ohio Jones

    Ohio Jones Game on...

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    Hmm. Just spit-balling here, but maybe because he's playing so well this season?

    38 gp, 10 g, 24 a, 34 p, 0 +/-, 14 pim, 4 ppg, 2 gwg, 81 shots
     
  5. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    eh, i dont consider that an "impact" player. surely a good supporting cast guy though, but point a game doesnt mean as much as it used to and really, he only has 10 goals, he isnt making that much of an impact if you ask me. Most of those points came at the beginning of the season too I bet.
     
  6. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    All depends on how you want to define impact player, but he has more points than Justin Williams this year, and Brad Richards only has 2 more goals. All three are about the same age, but Jason Williams has just been brought along slower.

    I'm not saying he is in Richards class, but would you consider either of those other guys impact players? Can't fault Reggie for whining about his client getting a league minimum offer when he is on pace for 70-80 points, even if he is propping him up a bit. After all, that's what agents are for.
     
  7. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    fair enough ... i wouldnt want to pay him anything more than between 1 and 1.2m. Although, I admit I dont know the range they are discussing.

    fun times! who wants to trade?
     
  8. Dryden

    Dryden Registered User

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    now that its happened to me...

    I've got one bone to pick...we should be allowed to make at least one more offer to players making a counter offer befoer breaking off negotiations. It shouldn't be one offer and done.
     
  9. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    isnt that the agent/players perogative though? if your first offer is deemed insulting, they may decide to break off talks. its not like a computer game, i guess reggie is trying to incorporate emotions into the negotations?
     
  10. Dryden

    Dryden Registered User

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    yeah but my point is yu should be able to come back with something...it shouldn't just be done like that....unless the randomizer that he's using is like a 5 or a 6 and the chances of him coming back to the team are unlikely. just my two sense...especially since i felt i was fair in my offers and sent reggie a message about it today.

    thats ok...most of my core will be resigned by the end of the month anyhow
     
  11. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    The main issue is that General Managers consistently submit bottom of the barrel offers, and then start negotiating from there. This turns the whole negotiation into an incredibly lengthy affair, especially when you are getting offers from 30 General Managers (ok, 25), and all of them are looking to sign a half dozen players. The rule is there to ensure more General Managers think their offers through before submitting them.

    And keep in mind, this is only used in the most extreme cases. Dyden, in your case, you offered well below what the player was already making on your team, when the player is having a career break through year AND poised to become a UFA. I mean, how often is player approached during the season in which they are having a great year, and offered an extension for less money than they are making?

    Dryden, if you feel the offer really was fair (or any other General Manager who feels they have been treated unfairly), the issue can be forwarded to other Admin Team members on appeal.
     
  12. Dryden

    Dryden Registered User

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    ok...point taken....I've already emailed you about it....and i'll wait for your response
     
  13. Ohio Jones

    Ohio Jones Game on...

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    Just wanted one point of clarification on this, as it affects one of my offers as well. We have indicated that Reggie would use the benchmark of what players are earning in the NHL as a means of determining market value for HFNHL offers. I have a player who is a pending UFA - Brendan Shanahan - who is earning over $5M in the HFNHL, but less than half that in the NHL. I have made an offer that splits the difference, feeling that was a fair way to balance the NHL and HFNHL salaries. The offer is considerably more than the player is earning in the NHL, so based on the above benchmark decision I would not expect to see Reggie call off talks, even though the offer is less than the player is currently earning in the HFNHL.

    What would be considered market value in cases like this?
     
  14. kasper11

    kasper11 Registered User

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    I thought when we said use NHL salaries, that it would be based on players with similar ratings and stats, not individual players. Shanahan is a good example, he accepted his player option with the Wings because he wanted to stay there, not because it was market value.
     
  15. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    Actually, in the case of Chicago's player, negotiations have been re-opened because Reggie mis-read the offer - and what the player was making in the HFNHL. The offer was still rejected, but Chicago can make two more offers to the player.

    As to Doug's point, the players market value is the main consideration (how is he doing in the NHL this year, what will his rating be like next year and what will his likely market value be as a UFA in the HFNHL this summer), but his salary in the NHL will at least be taken into consideration when deciding whether to break off talks altogether. I'm not sure Reggie is real excited by your offer, but he won't break off talks because of it. It's usually for offers less than 50% of what the likely market value is, and while your offer might straddle that line, the fact he makes less in the NHL at least gives you some justification as to why you offered what you did. Most negotiation breakers are for simple one-line offers with no justification or rationalization.
     
  16. Ohio Jones

    Ohio Jones Game on...

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    Makes sense. We'll be pleased to discuss the details with Reggie going forward.
     
  17. kasper11

    kasper11 Registered User

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    I think that is a good thing for most people to keep in mind. I've done this before and I can tell from the way that Reggie handles offers that there is a decent amount of work involved in this. Reggie tries his best to be accurate on the market value for each player instead of just coming up with a number off the top of his head. If GMs aren't willing to put the same work into their offers, don't expect him to keep negotiating with you.
     
  18. Mandaou

    Mandaou Registered User

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    Reggie

    I agree with you. Reggie does an excellent job.

    Reggie's responses are not absurd as I'm sure some of our offers are (I know I may have had one or two in the past :innocent: ). They're all within the reasonable scope of what an NHLer may expect and he gives you the reasons he declined and the expectations. Of course I've disagreed with him many times (especially when I give good comparisons :madfire: ) but that's expected.

    Good thing is that Reggie's ego is big enough to take some criticism and then some. In fact, many say he thrives on it. ;)
     
  19. MatthewFlames

    MatthewFlames Registered User

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    Flames Sign Two

    CALGARY (CP): Head coach Brian Sutter will have two of his most important offensive puzzle pieces back for next season, after Milan Hejduk and Dan Boyle signed two year contract extensions today. Details of those contracts were not released by the Flames, per club policy.

    "I am happy to hear that we won't be going through another loss of our top level talent this off-season. There is still a lot of work to be done by the General Manager to secure the long term services of a few other players." the coach commented on FAN 960 today.

    The obvious reference to the Jason Williams saga and the difficulty in signing rookie Michael Ryder to a long term contract. "I think that Mr. Swingstein does the best for his clients - but I think he has placed a slightly different value on that particular client than this club does. Which is not to say that we don't believe that client is an integral part of this team going forward.

    We believe that his client is a top six forward, without doubt, but he has yet to prove that he can be consistent at this level. As part of that growing process, we moved him up from the farm for the remainder of this season, to show our dedication to getting him under contract long term and not letting him test the RFA waters." Kershaw commented. When asked who he was referring to, the GM refused to say Williams' name, although it was obvious that is who the conversation was about.

    "Presently that player has a ten game goalless streak going, and only three points in that time frame in the NHL, and I think we were right to wait and see how the remainder of the season pans out, but we will be making another offer, a much improved one for that player to Reggie in the near future." the GM commented. "I know that Reggie is refusing to consider any offers for that player, but I also know that the offers we have put in now are fair and that the player and his agent will reconsider."

    Asked about whether the team will be trying to sign long term agreements with UFA's Thornton and Axelsson, the GM refused to comment. Asked about his defence and goaltending, and whether the GM was planning on moving one of his many young defenceman the GM called an end to the press conference.

    Kershaw had initially refused to respond at all to Swingsteins outbursts and many in the media thought that this spelt doom for the other Flames negotiations. This has been the managers first comments about the situation in the media.
     
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