Strange verbiage from Bob McKenzie on TSN

[waltdetroit]

He took a knee on knee, Not sure what his status will be long term. Only that Cooper didn't think it was good.

fromthe Tampa Bay Times
Coach Jon Cooper said the injury’s severity wouldn’t be known until Hedman had tests today. But this one looked bad.
"Obviously, when a guy can’t really put a weight on his leg and doesn’t come back, especially (Hedman), who battles through a lot of stuff, it didn’t look very good," captain Steven Stamkos said. "Obviously we’re hoping and praying for the best news. We’ll have to wait and see."

 

[Winger98]

Gator and Green for Callahan, Brett Howden, 2019 1st?

 

[MikeyDee]

At the TDL, around 75% of Green is paid, so Tampa would be adding around $1.5M. With retention up to 50%, it could be as low as around $750k. A quick glance at CapFriendly shows Tampa has around a hair under $2M to play with.

I guess for Tampa, is having another puck moving Dman and PP QB worth the 1st+ to take the team deep in the playoffs? And maybe they see Green as somebody they could keep in the fold for a reasonable price. Greens made at least $5M in salary the last 10 years, so maybe he focuses on winning a Cup instead of getting a pay day. Tampa's probably going to be a contender for a few seasons and the taxes are better there. Given Sustr and Kunitz come off the books this summer and the cap increase is supposed to be substantial, they have room without hindering their ability to reward Kucherov in the near future. They could probably move Coburn if the need the room.



The only real "bad" deals Tampa has on the books (where they might cough up some assets to get rid of) would be Callahan and Coburn. However, both have a full NMC/NTC until the start of 18-19, so I doubt they'd waive them to leave a Cup favorite to go to a "team that isn't rebuilding and still wants to try to make the playoffs but isn't in the playoffs". I doubt they look to make any cap dump deals until the offseason, if needed.

If I'm Holland I put on my salesman pants and try to work Mrazek in the deal too. "Boy sure would suck to have Vasilevsky go down and face running a Budaj/Domingue tandem down the stretch or in the playoffs." or "Just got off the phone with Garth. He's doing great by the way. Was asking about Mrazek. Boy, wouldn't it be something if they got him, locked down the last wildcard spot and then have a goalie that's got a playoff resume of 1.87GAA and .93SV% in 10 games all against Tampa Bay?"

Green/Mrazek (both at 50% retained)

for

2018 1st/Libor Hajek/Dotchin or Koekkoek or conditionals depending on where Tampa reaches in the POs/Green re-signing/games played by Mrazek/etc.

You're giving Mrazek too much credit in your post. That resume is ancient history. Otherwise, I agree with what you're saying.

 

[Claypool]

You're reading way too much into Bob's ramblings. He's speaking for himself, not anyone in the organization.

 

[Pavels Dog]

That's a pretty loose definition of "dangerously close." It's possible now, but it's still unlikely.

With their games in hand they could get within 1 point of Pittsburgh. It’s unlikely but they’re far from out of the race.

 

[Flowah]

You're reading way too much into Bob's ramblings. He's speaking for himself, not anyone in the organization.

Bob's probably one guy whose ramblings should be listened to.

 

[ShelbyZ]

You're giving Mrazek too much credit in your post. That resume is ancient history. Otherwise, I agree with what you're saying.

That's why I said he has to "put on his salesman pants" to make Mrazek an attractive addition to the deal. His inclusion in my proposed deal likely amounts to a conditional 3rd/4th depending on how much he plays for Tampa before they decline to qualify him.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Only guy I could see is Ryan Callahan. Maybe Tyler Johnson.
But you don't trade a Tyler Johnson away before going for the cup. Probably don't do it with Cally either.
More of an offseason move if you can swing it.

Agree for the most part, except for the maybe Johnson part.

That and the only reason they don't move the Callahan deal before going for the cup is because he's locked in place with a full NMC. He's basically a $5.8M ($6.5M is actual salary) Drew Miller at this point, so I'm sure if he didn't have that NMC and an opportunity to get rid of his deal presented itself, Yzerman wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

For the Red Wings, the return coupled with Callahan would have to be real significant to take on his $5.8M cap hit.

 

[jkutswings]

You're reading way too much into Bob's ramblings. He's speaking for himself, not anyone in the organization.

I never claimed he was speaking for anybody. Just that his vocabulary was bizarre.

 

[waltdetroit]

Hedman out 3-6 weeks, Tampa will bring up a D from AHL

 

[WingedWheel1987]

With their games in hand they could get within 1 point of Pittsburgh. It’s unlikely but they’re far from out of the race.

A 5-6% chance of making the playoffs means they are far out of it. They need to pass five teams for the final WC spot and the five teams ahead of them have more talented rosters and every team would hold the first tiebreaker over Detroit. (ROW wins)

It would literally take an act of 6-7 different gods for this roster to make the playoffs.

 

[Pavels Dog]

A 5-6% chance of making the playoffs means they are far out of it. They need to pass five teams for the final WC spot and the five teams ahead of them have more talented rosters and every team would hold the first tiebreaker over Detroit. (ROW wins)

It would literally take an act of 6-7 different gods for this roster to make the playoffs.

5-6% means nothing when the standings are still close enough that a small winning streak drastically changes things. All I’m saying is it’s easy to see what Bob is saying.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

With their games in hand they could get within 1 point of Pittsburgh. It’s unlikely but they’re far from out of the race.

But by "with their games in hand" you're assuming another statistically unlikely winning streak, and the competition is even stiffer this stretch.

And even so, Pittsburgh is not in a playoff position right now. So it's more like Detroit is on the cusp of being on the cusp of making the playoffs. And that's only if everything goes right.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I never claimed he was speaking for anybody. Just that his vocabulary was bizarre.

It's bizarre because you want so very badly for the Wings to lose enough that they fire Holland. Bob McKenzie is an external party to the Wings and is speaking from the common knowledge that the Wings are rebuilding and therefore want the highest pick they can get. If you were not invested in wanting the Wings to clean house, you'd read it that way.

 

[Marky9er]

I'd be pretty interested in Hajek. They can keep their 1st round pick.

 

[jkutswings]

It's bizarre because you want so very badly for the Wings to lose enough that they fire Holland. Bob McKenzie is an external party to the Wings and is speaking from the common knowledge that the Wings are rebuilding and therefore want the highest pick they can get. If you were not invested in wanting the Wings to clean house, you'd read it that way.

"...they’ve won a little bit more than they want to even lately..."

It's awkward syntax. Feel free to replace 'won' with any other verb, in any other context, and it's still awkward syntax. Yes, it's likely just him speaking for himself, and, as I already replied, I wasn't implying that it was anything more than that. I even stated in my original post that he may have misspoke.

Because, in addition to any debate about the meaning, it's simply broken English.

But feel free to ascribe devious intentions, even where there are none, since can you seem to know what I'm thinking better than i do, apparently. You can even use my...oh, where did that thing go...AHA! My "jump to conclusions mat":

 

[HIFE]

Not a massive revelation but I think a statement like this from McKenzie says something about how common is the knowledge the Red Wings should be rebuilding. And yes Holland knows it too. For being labeled everything from demented to delusional my guess is he and the organization are not that out of touch with reality. Holland is probably the first to grasp that competitive does not imply they're a threat, only that they refuse to tank and ice a roster destined to finish dead last.

“You can say our team isn’t great, but it’s not hopeless,” Holland said. “Most nights we compete hard, we’re structured. We haven’t won enough.”

That News article was riddled with these types of phrases. I wouldn't go as far to call this season a stealth tank but Holland and Devellano may be a little sharper than people imagine.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I'd be pretty interested in Hajek. They can keep their 1st round pick.

Hajek is producing more this year but I'm always afraid of D that can't hit that .5 PPG mark in their draft year. He's a good all around D and I'd happily take him in a trade but I think we could do better with their pick because this draft is so deep for good D. Especially considering we have 2 early seconds and could move up to snipe someone if a player we really like lasts longer than he should.

 

[Go Wings]

Not a massive revelation but I think a statement like this from McKenzie says something about how common is the knowledge the Red Wings should be rebuilding. And yes Holland knows it too. For being labeled everything from demented to delusional my guess is he and the organization are not that out of touch with reality. Holland is probably the first to grasp that competitive does not imply they're a threat, only that they refuse to tank and ice a roster destined to finish dead last.

“You can say our team isn’t great, but it’s not hopeless,” Holland said. “Most nights we compete hard, we’re structured. We haven’t won enough.”

That News article was riddled with these types of phrases. I wouldn't go as far to call this season a stealth tank but Holland and Devellano may be a little sharper than people imagine.

We will find out how sharp they are at the deadline and draft. They could and should move out Green, Mrazek and Nyquist and maybe even Tatar.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

fromthe Tampa Bay Times
Coach Jon Cooper said the injury’s severity wouldn’t be known until Hedman had tests today. But this one looked bad.
"Obviously, when a guy can’t really put a weight on his leg and doesn’t come back, especially (Hedman), who battles through a lot of stuff, it didn’t look very good," captain Steven Stamkos said. "Obviously we’re hoping and praying for the best news. We’ll have to wait and see."

Thanks they just said 3-6 weeks for Hedman so much better then previously thought, It looked much worse then it was.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

We will find out how sharp they are at the deadline and draft. They could and should move out Green, Mrazek and Nyquist and maybe even Tatar.

I'd be for moving both Nyquist and Tatar but other then possibly Svechnikov who do you replace the other with, Detroit doesn't have an abundance of top 6 Wingers within the organization unless we sign either Kane or Van Riemsdyke during the summer and both would cost far more then either Nyquist or Tatar.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Countdown to TradeCentre: Who's a seller? - Article - TSN

It's an article listing the teams likely to sell at the deadline, and what players will likely be available. But here's how he brought up the Wings:

"But Detroit, they’ve won a little bit more than they want to even lately, but Mike Green, he’s going to be available - expiring contract."

Now I don't know what (if any) additional context preceded that statement. But it's a very weird choice of words, hearing, '... they've won a little bit more than they want to...", especially juxtaposed against the extremely consistent narrative from Holland, about being competitive and winning as much as they can.

Maybe Bob misspoke, but strange stuff...

I think you are over analyzing it. McKenzie is giving his opinion on what the Wings want, and Bob assumes the Wings want to rebuild. I don't think his comment is meant to make you think that his opinion is based on something he heard from within the DRW organization.

 

[Marky9er]

Hajek is producing more this year but I'm always afraid of D that can't hit that .5 PPG mark in their draft year. He's a good all around D and I'd happily take him in a trade but I think we could do better with their pick because this draft is so deep for good D. Especially considering we have 2 early seconds and could move up to snipe someone if a player we really like lasts longer than he should.

Fair enough. He stood out at wjc and I was reading about how TB view him with top pair upside and they couldn't believe he was available at 37. I would probably take Yzermans pick at 37 over Holland's pick at 27-31. I doubt we could do better, tbh. Adding Hajek to Hronek and Cholowski would really be a great supporting cast for Dahlin too! ;-)

How about Green 50% retained and Ottawa's 2nd for Hajek and TB 1st. Same deal but we move up a bit.

That feels like robbery to me, but really Green would further lethalize their PP for relatively little money. TB would also be a great team to tie conditions too as they look poised to dominate.

 

[opivy]

The knee on knee was horrid looking, front of one knee into the direct side of Hedmans knee and it buckled badly in a direction knees don't go. Bummer to see, Tampa is having a great run so far.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Adding Hajek to Hronek and Cholowski would really be a great supporting cast for Dahlin too! ;-)

How about Green 50% retained and Ottawa's 2nd for Hajek and TB 1st. Same deal but we move up a bit.

That feels like robbery to me, but really Green would further lethalize their PP for relatively little money. TB would also be a great team to tie conditions too as they look poised to dominate.

I'd be happy with that trade. I do like Hajek. I just think the D available in the late first could have more upside and there are things that worry me about Hajek. I know Tampa is very very high on him which is usually a good sign.

While Tampa's first won't be that much higher than Ottawa's second, I think the optics of a first are better for getting to move up if we have a guy we like. You're right that Hajek would be a good addition to our D prospects. We would still need a true blue chipper but we're building a good stable of D that can fill out our ranks behind a #1.