Strachan sets Alberta straight

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oil slick

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DR said:
You mean like OTT has done ?

Why cant CGY and EDM at least be expected to get to OTT's level of production ?

dr

This would be the Ottawa Senators that is projected to be spending almost 39 Million on 18 players this year (if it existed)? If Ottawa didn't have a billionare owner, Daniel Alfredsson would be elsewhere right now.


So why can't the Oilers and Flames expect to keep good players they traded for (and very occasionally drafted)? I don't understand you're argument against this.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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slats432 said:
Because of the years of suckitude required to get top 5 picks.
really ?

Hossa, Havlat, Alfreddson, Fisher, Vermette, and Volchenkov were the results of top 5 picks ?

how come OTT was able to turn their too expensive star (Yashin) into Spezza AND Chara, yet in the same season EDM couldnt get a quarter as much for twice the player in Weight ?

DR
 

mooseOAK*

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DR said:
You mean like OTT has done ?

Why cant CGY and EDM at least be expected to get to OTT's level of production ?

dr
How long is Ottawa going to be able to hold onto all of those players, financially. They already had to trade Yashin and they have hit the wall in terms of what they can afford in payroll.
 

rec28

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DR said:
really ?

Hossa, Havlat, Alfreddson, Fisher, Vermette, and Volchenkov were the results of top 5 picks ?

how come OTT was able to turn their too expensive star (Yashin) into Spezza AND Chara, yet in the same season EDM couldnt get a quarter as much for twice the player in Weight ?

DR

I didn't know Fisher, Vermette, and Volchenkov are considered premiere players.

As far as the Yashin vs. Weight garbage, you have been schooled on this many times before (see below). The situations are not comparable:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=2200431#post2200431
 

syc

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gerbilanium said:
Nice sentiment but it's not going to happen, there will be a cap and you guys will no longer be able to trade for leading scorers at the trade deadline. Doesn't matter if it's wrong or right, YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO IT AGAIN.

I bet it just sucks realizing that although 4 teams make a lot of money 26 others are going to stop it. Sounds like the whining is coming from you realizing your buying days are over. I love it.

Alberta does know how it feels to be the leafs, we rake in the money, hear the whining from the rest of Canada, but the difference is, WE SHARE THE MONEY.

Thanks for saving the rest of Canada, without the superpower known as Alberta we wouldn't have what we have today.
:lol :lol :lol :lol

I also think the Oilers fans and owners are far more whiney the Flames fans. Perhaps that's because its been awhile since the oils were a good team. But hey thats because of the 8 million dollar Holiks not bad managment. Right? :D

If the Oilers went 36 years without a cup like the Leafs, they wouldn't have a hockey team in Edmonton. Thats a fact!
 

Strangelove

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ScottyBowman said:
God bless Strachan.

C'mon Scotty, it's pretty obvious God hates the guy.

I mean, just look at him.

And his ugliness goes beyond skin-deep.....
 

mackdogs*

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DR said:
really ?

Hossa, Havlat, Alfreddson, Fisher, Vermette, and Volchenkov were the results of top 5 picks ?

how come OTT was able to turn their too expensive star (Yashin) into Spezza AND Chara, yet in the same season EDM couldnt get a quarter as much for twice the player in Weight ?

DR
Since you seem keen on asking stupid rhetorical questions - how come Ottawa doesn't win the cup every year with their 'stellar' lineup? The way you are posting about Ottawa makes it sound like they are the reigning dynasty and NHL champs. Too bad such accolades are not given out for the regular season.
 

HF2002

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slats432 said:
Because of the years of suckitude required to get top 5 picks.
Hossa - 12th overall
Havlat - 26th overall
Alfredsson - 133rd overall

Ottawa didn't obtain these players through favourable drafting positions. The only 2 remaining players drafted from the years of "suckitude" are Redden and Phillips. The core of this team has been built from the '97 draft on. Alfredsson is the exception here in that he was drafted in '94.
 

I in the Eye

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I'm torn...

One part of me wants EDM to get the exact CBA that they want - so that they can no longer hide behind the 'money excuse' that some believe explains their mediocrity... If it solves the EDM inferiority complex (so that they can feel like a more productive member of the NHL community), by all means, give it to them... I'm not an animal, and I'm all for helping victims who feel that they are unable to help themselves... Ultimately, we are all here to make a difference - and I support helping those who feel less fortunate than us...

However, Lowe would be exposed for what he is - IMHO, a mediocre GM... And can anything but a mediocre team getting mediocre results be expected from a mediocre GM? Give a mediocre GM more or = money, and he's now a mediocre GM with more or = money... He doesn't magically turn into a prince from a frog - This isn't a fairytale...

The other part of me doesn't want EDM to get the exact CBA that they want... as the cost to get it will likely mean another year+ with no hockey... IMHO, it's not necessary (nice-to-have, not need-to-have feature for the owners), and therefore, the costs to get it are > than the benefits for us fans...

IMO, EDM will be mediocre team regardless of the CBA framework and the economic environment (as long as they still have Lowe and the 'we are inferior' mentality)... The CBA itself doesn't matter nearly as much as how the GMs implement the CBA to the benefit of their respective teams... If EDM can get what they want (feel that they need) at a minimal or low cost (added to the already loss of a season), IMO, get the CBA framework that EDM believes it needs... If EDM can only get what they want (feel that they need) at a high cost (another year+ without hockey), IMO, forget it... I like and respect the EDM franchise (excluding Lowe) but IMO, it's not worth jumping off a cliff in order for EDM to feel better about themselves...
 

Vomiting Kermit*

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syc said:
I also think the Oilers fans and owners are far more whiney the Flames fans. Perhaps that's because its been awhile since the oils were a good team. But hey thats because of the 8 million dollar Holiks not bad managment. Right? :D
Oh yeah, because making the playoffs six times out of the last eight seasons isn't good. Or finishing two points out of a playoff spot in the two years out of the last eight they have missed isn't good.

I remember TSN saying that if the Oilers could re-sign Weight, they would have been a contender in the West.

Edmonton would have kept Weight if it was financially possible.

Bad management? No. Lowe (and before him, Sather) and co. do the best they can with the money they are given to work with. Edmonton has put a competitive team on the ice for the last eight years.

Get your facts straight.

If the Oilers went 36 years without a cup like the Leafs, they wouldn't have a hockey team in Edmonton. Thats a fact!
lmao

Not even going to reply to such a stupid statement.

But hey, good effort. Thanks for coming out, bud! :)
 

hockeytown9321

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NYIsles1 said:
Islander fans stayed home rather than support ownership who iced a 15m dollar product but those owners made no effort at all, that's horrible ownership. In the early 80's were the Wings owners spending significantly less than the avg team?

I think Wirtz does a poor job, not because he will not spend 60m but because he will not spend the league avg and give his team a reasonable chance. There is a difference.

My point is after all these years of expecting to add big name players and ice a high payroll team will Wings fans support a team with a payroll in the middle that cannot absorbe a contract any longer.

Bruce Norris was just like Wirtz. If he still owned the Wings, they'd be in the same position as Chicago.

And you overrate the Red Wings attendance problems. They've avergaed more than 17,000 every year since 84-85, including the 40 point 85-86 season. You also have to remember the Olympia was smaller, and in a very bad neighborhood, and the Detroit economy was terrible in the late 70's\early 80's(due to huge oil prices, people stopped buying cars)
 

Vomiting Kermit*

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I'd like to know why people are blaming just Edmonton for the length of the lockout because their owners have been more outspoken than some others.

As far as mediocre team, IitE, what season are we looking at here? The Oilers have had a competitive team for the last eight years. By no means am I saying they have been a top-10 team, but what exactly do you define 'mediocre' as when the team is in the top half of the league every year?

I don't really understand why you label Lowe as a 'mediocre' GM when he is given a tight budget and can't afford to go out and sign an all-star every summer or trade for a top-5 scorer.
 

Cawz

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I in the Eye said:
I'm torn...

One part of me wants EDM to get the exact CBA that they want - so that they can no longer hide behind the 'money excuse' that some believe explains their mediocrity... If it solves the EDM inferiority complex (so that they can feel like a more productive member of the NHL community), by all means, give it to them... I'm not an animal, and I'm all for helping victims who feel that they are unable to help themselves... Ultimately, we are all here to make a difference - and I support helping those who feel less fortunate than us...

However, Lowe would be exposed for what he is - IMHO, a mediocre GM... And can anything but a mediocre team getting mediocre results be expected from a mediocre GM? Give a mediocre GM more or = money, and he's now a mediocre GM with more or = money... He doesn't magically turn into a prince from a frog - This isn't a fairytale...

The other part of me doesn't want EDM to get the exact CBA that they want... as the cost to get it will likely mean another year+ with no hockey... IMHO, it's not necessary (nice-to-have, not need-to-have feature for the owners), and therefore, the costs to get it are > than the benefits for us fans...

IMO, EDM will be mediocre team regardless of the CBA framework and the economic environment (as long as they still have Lowe and the 'we are inferior' mentality)... The CBA itself doesn't matter nearly as much as how the GMs implement the CBA to the benefit of their respective teams... If EDM can get what they want (feel that they need) at a minimal or low cost (added to the already loss of a season), IMO, get the CBA framework that EDM believes it needs... If EDM can only get what they want (feel that they need) at a high cost (another year+ without hockey), IMO, forget it... I like and respect the EDM franchise (excluding Lowe) but IMO, it's not worth jumping off a cliff in order for EDM to feel better about themselves...
Thats a lot of typing to make no sence. And here I thought there were 29 other teams in the NHL.
 

Quiet Robert

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syc said:
Thanks for saving the rest of Canada, without the superpower known as Alberta we wouldn't have what we have today.
:lol :lol :lol :lol

I don't want to turn this into a political debate, and I'm not Albertan, but it's a fact Alberta pays massively to the equalization payments. That's what he was referring to. Alberta is pretty much the only contributor to the EQ payments. Ontario's contribution is minimal in comparison. I think that's what he was referring to with the sharing reference.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html
 

Other Dave

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mooseOAK said:
How long is Ottawa going to be able to hold onto all of those players, financially. They already had to trade Yashin and they have hit the wall in terms of what they can afford in payroll.

They've hit the wall because, as others have mentioned, they haven't been succeeding to the level of their talent.

If Ottawa can only achieve Edmonton's level of success, they will not generate the revenues necessary to keep together a bunch of star players. What's so special about Ottawa or Edmonton that they should be allowed to keep a bunch of players together who can't get the job done, no matter how skilled they may be?

On the other hand, if Ottawa manages to improve its playoff revenues, there's no reason why they can't retain the players who got them there.
 

Other Dave

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Quiet Robert said:
I don't want to turn this into a political debate, and I'm not Albertan, but it's a fact Alberta pays massively to the equalization payments.

Eastern Canada should have let Alberta starve during the Depression years. That way they wouldn't have to suffer through the whining today about equalization payments.
 

gerbilanium

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syc said:
Thanks for saving the rest of Canada, without the superpower known as Alberta we wouldn't have what we have today.
:lol :lol :lol :lol

I also think the Oilers fans and owners are far more whiney the Flames fans. Perhaps that's because its been awhile since the oils were a good team. But hey thats because of the 8 million dollar Holiks not bad managment. Right? :D

If the Oilers went 36 years without a cup like the Leafs, they wouldn't have a hockey team in Edmonton. Thats a fact!

Lets take Strach up on his offer:

Edmonton and Calgary have now been taken over by oil companies, a 10 cent per litre tax will be placed on every litre of gasoline for all provinces and a 10 percent preimum on natural gas will be added.

Cgy and EDM will 'buy' (oops sorry, 'recruit through sound management') every player in the world who has played more than 5 consecutive years of hockey, but of course the money will not provide a competitive advantage at all, it is all just good management.

These other infererior cities should have decided to set up shop near where dinosaurs used to roam. Just plain old bad scouting and management, I tells ya. They should have known dubya in the white house would send the price of oil through the roof.

Only the strong franchises deserve to survive, the only games that will matter will be the good ole battle of Alberta. No need for a draft, it's a pure competitive marketplace.​
 

copperandblue

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I in the Eye said:
However, Lowe would be exposed for what he is - IMHO, a mediocre GM... And can anything but a mediocre team getting mediocre results be expected from a mediocre GM? Give a mediocre GM more or = money, and he's now a mediocre GM with more or = money... He doesn't magically turn into a prince from a frog - This isn't a fairytale...

Out of curiosity have you looked at the GM's of, say, the top 10 spenders in the league and tried to form a prediction on how they would do under similar circumstances?

I would be interested in hearing some opinions on what could be expected from the "excellent" GM's if/when a cap (say 40 mil) is implimented.
 

Cawz

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Hootchie Cootchie said:
Scotty, they couldnt draft worth squat under Sather, true, and yes it still hurts - but the last few years since new management took over has seen a vast improvement in drafting. Why does that part always get ignored?
Exactly.
Oilers prospects are 4th in the NHL (according to this website), and that’s without a 1st overall pick that #1 and #2 had. But bias and hatred are much more useful to form arguments than actual facts (for some boneheads who write articles and post opinions).
 

itsmagic

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What is often lost in these dicussions is the fact the Flames and the Oilers, among a few other teams, have essentially been working with a salary cap for years, self-imposed by budget constraints.

These aren't strictly independent businesses we are talking about; they could perhaps best be described as symbiotic entities within a single economic organism. The health of the whole depends upon the health of each entity.
 

kruezer

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Quiet Robert said:
I don't want to turn this into a political debate, and I'm not Albertan, but it's a fact Alberta pays massively to the equalization payments. That's what he was referring to. Alberta is pretty much the only contributor to the EQ payments. Ontario's contribution is minimal in comparison. I think that's what he was referring to with the sharing reference.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html
Yeah, its not even close, as much as people may not want to admit it, Alberta does prop up the rest of the country.
 

mackdogs*

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I wish I could figure out where Strachan and some of the other award winning journalists were coming from with these articles about folding the teams that don't deserve to be in the league. He says the Alberta teams should look into using lottery money to help out. They were and as far as I know still are doing that through scratch & win tickets. He thinks that oil tycoons should step up and run the team at a horrible loss just to show that they have the cojones to do so. He expects the majority (teams unable to spew forth money to players) to be propped up to the status of the big teams or they should go away.

I just don't get it... my only reasoning is that he wants to make it easier for the Leafs to win the cup. Less teams = less competition. Do we really want to regress into a 16 team league with a 50 game sked at the expense of storied franchises? I really question this guys commitment to the game of hockey. He's just a glorified sore loser.
 

Matty

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mackdogs said:
I wish I could figure out where Strachan and some of the other award winning journalists were coming from with these articles about folding the teams that don't deserve to be in the league. He says the Alberta teams should look into using lottery money to help out. They were and as far as I know still are doing that through scratch & win tickets. He thinks that oil tycoons should step up and run the team at a horrible loss just to show that they have the cojones to do so. He expects the majority (teams unable to spew forth money to players) to be propped up to the status of the big teams or they should go away.

I just don't get it... my only reasoning is that he wants to make it easier for the Leafs to win the cup. Less teams = less competition. Do we really want to regress into a 16 team league with a 50 game sked at the expense of storied franchises? I really question this guys commitment to the game of hockey. He's just a glorified sore loser.

He's not really advocating the teams folding - but that the NHL shouldn't cater to these teams.

That said, his arguement isn't that well though out.

He uses the NFL and Green Bay as an example of a situation where a small market team has learned to compete without the 'help' of the league. Excuse me Al, doesn't the NFL have a fairly restrictive salary cap? And isn't that what small market NHL teams are looking for? And doesn't the NFL also receive large amounts of cash from TV deals - far larger than the NHL can even dream of?

And the salary cap isn't just for the Alberta teams - if it was, you can bet the league would be up and running with a new CBA without a salary cap. 28 owners aren't gonna absorb huge losses so that two 'whiners' can compete. Fact is, many teams obviously feel that a salary cap would be hugely beneficial. They wouldn't have sacrificed this much if they felt otherwise.

So wake up Strachan. This isn't about Calgary and Edmonton - it's about the majority of teams in the league.
 
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