Status of The Florida Panthers

[BKIslandersFan]

There is a lot of things to do besides watching sports down there. In a beautiful weather most of the year.

 

[NJDevils7]

Is there any way the Panthers could either

1) Play at American Airlines
2) Get a new arena in Miami

Its hard for a team like the Panthers with not many casual fans to get good attendance at an arena so far outside the city.

 

[MNNumbers]

Is there any way the Panthers could either

1) Play at American Airlines
2) Get a new arena in Miami

Its hard for a team like the Panthers with not many casual fans to get good attendance at an arena so far outside the city.

Looking up thread, they are locked into Broward until at least 2023, and have heavy lease breakage fees for more years after that.

So, no. That's not the solution for them.

 

[Mightygoose]

Does American Airlines Arena even have an place plant?

 

[willy702]

Is there any way the Panthers could either

1) Play at American Airlines
2) Get a new arena in Miami

Its hard for a team like the Panthers with not many casual fans to get good attendance at an arena so far outside the city.

Have you been to Miami? Lets just say if you speak only Spanish you'll have no problems there. I have done plenty of business down there over the years and I find more accented English and even having to have translators around more and more each year. Not to say Latinos and foreign born fans can't enjoy the NHL, but they generally don't. They love the NBA and a hockey team can't compete well with that. Go to Ft Lauderdale and its a completely different story, but unfortunately Ft. Lauderdale is a long way from Sunrise when its rush hour. Broward County is demographically very close to Tampa.

 

[bluedevil58]

I will simply say the Panthers made a huge mistake a year ago when this happened in Raleigh.

A year later who is laughing now.

I will state again that South Florida has terrible demographics for hockey and the location of the arena in Sunrise has hurt them. Wayne Huizenga wanted no part of Dade County and bet heavily on Broward and then walked away from sports and hockey was given to Alan Cohen.

Panthers are now entering the snowbird part of the schedule and attendance will be fine through February.

2 years ago I thought the Panthers were ready to claim a spot at the adult table of South Florida sports but miscues by ownership have them back at the kiddie table.

Wasn't this the guy that took y'all yo The post season in what seemed like forever??

 

[Hoek]

Why does attendance seem to be an issue for most Florida sports teams, when it's a state that has 20 million people in it (i.e. over half the population of Canada in an area that's about 1/5 the size of Ontario). I'd get if it was just hockey, but it doesn't seem to matter what sport it is, attendance is routinely an issue.

Tampa + Miami were last and third last in attendance last year in the MLB.
2017 MLB Attendance - Major League Baseball - ESPN

Jacksonville + Tampa were 26 & 27 last year for attendance in the NFL (21 and 28 if you go by % of stadium full)
2016 NFL Football Attendance - National Football League - ESPN

Miami + Orlando were 17th + 28th last year for attendance in the NBA
2016-2017 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Now to be fair, Tampa Bay Lightning in the NHL actually do seem to be doing pretty well for attendance these days, but Florida is still consistently near the bottom (5th worst last year), and when they made the playoffs with a very exciting young core of Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barkov, etc they were still 5th last.
List of National Hockey League attendance figures - Wikipedia

To be fair, the Lightning are also the only team that hasn't stunk out loud regularly or had a fire sale immediately after their success.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Does American Airlines Arena even have an place plant?

From their calendar, yes - they had Disney on Ice there in September.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Looking up thread, they are locked into Broward until at least 2023, and have heavy lease breakage fees for more years after that.

So, no. That's not the solution for them.

Just as well. Heat probably aren't gonna need another arena soon.

And only way they are moving downtown is to share one with them.

 

[Last Rat Standing]

The Heat aren't interested in sharing an arena with the Panthers. Hence why they play in two separate buildings less than an hour apart. I live about 75-80 minutes north of the arena. I go when I can but even on a Saturday night 7 pm game, by the time it's over and getting out of the parking lot, I'm not home until midnight. Definitely not doable during the week. But for the Lauderdale/Miami crowd, it's a nightmare to get out there during the week. My wife used to live near north Miami and it took us an hour and a half to get there for a Friday night game and only 20 minutes to get home. It's not convienent for the regular working person during the week, especially in an area with no public transportation. With the exception of Ottawa and Arizona, from my understanding most nhl arenas are smack in the middle of their host cities downtown area. Easy for public transportation and regular traffic.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The Heat aren't interested in sharing an arena with the Panthers. Hence why they play in two separate buildings less than an hour apart. I live about 75-80 minutes north of the arena. I go when I can but even on a Saturday night 7 pm game, by the time it's over and getting out of the parking lot, I'm not home until midnight. Definitely not doable during the week. But for the Lauderdale/Miami crowd, it's a nightmare to get out there during the week. My wife used to live near north Miami and it took us an hour and a half to get there for a Friday night game and only 20 minutes to get home. It's not convienent for the regular working person during the week, especially in an area with no public transportation. With the exception of Ottawa and Arizona, from my understanding most nhl arenas are smack in the middle of their host cities downtown area. Easy for public transportation and regular traffic.

I wouldn't be either, Alison doesn't own them. If he did this would be a different story.

 

[Gnashville]

That was freaking hilarious

One, the team started in Miami and Miami-Dade is by far the most populous county in South Florida. To try and build away that population center to focus on Broward and Palm Beach is a mistake. Especially since West Palm Beach is further away from the arena than Miami is.

Second and most, most importantly though the arena is in an incovienant location for all three areas. It literally sits on the edge of the Everglades. You miss the exit to the arena and you are on Alligator Alley on the way to Naples.

If the arena was more central to the downtown Ft. Lauderdale, I would by you argument. Especially with the Tri-Rail and Brightline trains coming in better connecting the theee counties.

Having been to the arena area many times, and it is shocking they built it in the middle of nowhere. It's not in Miami, it is not in Ft Lauderdale, but the Everglades. I get they had a mall being built there, but it's an awful location for both cities.

Why does attendance seem to be an issue for most Florida sports teams, when it's a state that has 20 million people in it (i.e. over half the population of Canada in an area that's about 1/5 the size of Ontario). I'd get if it was just hockey, but it doesn't seem to matter what sport it is, attendance is routinely an issue.

Tampa + Miami were last and third last in attendance last year in the MLB.
2017 MLB Attendance - Major League Baseball - ESPN

Jacksonville + Tampa were 26 & 27 last year for attendance in the NFL (21 and 28 if you go by % of stadium full)
2016 NFL Football Attendance - National Football League - ESPN

Miami + Orlando were 17th + 28th last year for attendance in the NBA
2016-2017 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Now to be fair, Tampa Bay Lightning in the NHL actually do seem to be doing pretty well for attendance these days, but Florida is still consistently near the bottom (5th worst last year), and when they made the playoffs with a very exciting young core of Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barkov, etc they were still 5th last.
List of National Hockey League attendance figures - Wikipedia

The demographics of Florida are different. Most of South Florida is transplants from other cities. Almost all of the "native" population is in the North.
There was a funny video I saw where someone was asking people where they were from and all of them named places other than Florida. When he asked them where they lived they all said somewhere in the state. When he asked them "why not tell everyone you are from Florida?" they looked dumbfounded even though most had lived there over 2 decades.

Also every pro team in Florida except the Dolphins and Bucs are less than 30 years old. The older college teams in the northern part of the state do have a huge following especially amongst the native population (people who sound like Larry the Cable Guy). But the pro teams have trouble with getting the transplants that continue to follow their teams they have followed for decades and don't want adopt "new" teams.
Here is a list of all the Pro teams in Florida and their 1st year of play.
Miami Dolphins 1966
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1976
Miami Heat 1988
Orlando Magic 1989
Tampa Bay Lightning 1992
Miami Marlins 1993
Florida Panthers 1993
Jacksonville Jaguars 1995
Tampa Bay Rays 1998
Most of these teams have little to no history and most people in Florida continue to follow their "hometown" teams.

 

[Last Rat Standing]

That was freaking hilarious

Having been to the arena area many times, and it is shocking they built it in the middle of nowhere. It's not in Miami, it is not in Ft Lauderdale, but the Everglades. I get they had a mall being built there, but it's an awful location for both cities.


The demographics of Florida are different. Most of South Florida is transplants from other cities. Almost all of the "native" population is in the North. Also every pro team in Florida except the Dolphins and Bucs are less than 30 years old. The older college teams in the northern part of the state do have a huge following especially amongst the native population (people who sound like Larry the Cable Guy). But the pro teams have trouble with getting the transplants that continue to follow their teams they have followed for decades and don't want adopt "new" teams.

Exactly that's why we only get decent crowds against games with O6 teams and Philly/Pittsburgh. Just because people live here doesn't mean that they'll necessarily stop rooting for their northern teams. I know a good amount of hockey fans down here and most of them are fans of the Penguins, Wings,Hawks etc because they grew up there or their family is from there. A hypothetical Rangers-blackhawks game in Sunrise would sell out no problem

 

[Gnashville]

Exactly that's why we only get decent crowds against games with O6 teams and Philly/Pittsburgh. Just because people live here doesn't mean that they'll necessarily stop rooting for their northern teams. I know a good amount of hockey fans down here and most of them are fans of the Penguins, Wings,Hawks etc because they grew up there or their family is from there. A hypothetical Rangers-blackhawks game in Sunrise would sell out no problem

I spend a lot of my time in the Keys and every bar down there has hockey on but it's never the Panthers usually. It is always Philly, Chicago, Detroit ect. Even in Orlando people were excited about a Washington Philly game. Unless you have been to Florida it is hard to judge the fan support for hockey.

 

[Last Rat Standing]

I spend a lot of my time in the Keys and every bar down there has hockey on but it's never the Panthers usually. It is always Philly, Chicago, Detroit ect. Even in Orlando people were excited about a Washington Philly game. Unless you have been to Florida it is hard to judge the fan support for hockey.

Yeah I mean my local sports store in the mall doesn't even sell Panthers stuff. I asked them once and they said that they sell more of other teams merchandise than Florida. Even a sports store in the sawgrass mall across from the arena, the clerk never even heard of the Panthers. Two decades of futlity plus a more increased northern transplant population isn't helping as well

 

[aqib]

Exactly that's why we only get decent crowds against games with O6 teams and Philly/Pittsburgh. Just because people live here doesn't mean that they'll necessarily stop rooting for their northern teams. I know a good amount of hockey fans down here and most of them are fans of the Penguins, Wings,Hawks etc because they grew up there or their family is from there. A hypothetical Rangers-blackhawks game in Sunrise would sell out no problem

So then maybe just have a few neutral site games there?

 

[Headshot77]

So then maybe just have a few neutral site games there?

Or, maintain the presence of a professional team, and once it enjoys success, a large amount of those transplants will come over. Or, thinking long-term, the children of those transplants will be born and raised in Florida. The local team will be their team. It might take thirty+ years, but eventually those transplant fans turn into loyal fans, provided the team has at least some periods of success. Look at how well Tampa Bay is doing as an example.

 

[aqib]

Or, maintain the presence of a professional team, and once it enjoys success, a large amount of those transplants will come over. Or, thinking long-term, the children of those transplants will be born and raised in Florida. The local team will be their team. It might take thirty+ years, but eventually those transplant fans turn into loyal fans, provided the team has at least some periods of success. Look at how well Tampa Bay is doing as an example.

I mean its already been 25 years sure lets give it another 5, that's when the out-clause in the lease kicks in anyway

 

[Last Rat Standing]

Or, maintain the presence of a professional team, and once it enjoys success, a large amount of those transplants will come over. Or, thinking long-term, the children of those transplants will be born and raised in Florida. The local team will be their team. It might take thirty+ years, but eventually those transplant fans turn into loyal fans, provided the team has at least some periods of success. Look at how well Tampa Bay is doing as an example.

Tampa has been highly successful over the last 15 years. Two finals appearances, one win, two trips a 7 game conference final. Not to mention the other playoff years. The Panthers over the same span have two first round playoff exits. One of those was because we lost 18 games in shootouts and overtime. Every time something seems to go decent, the next year happens in which things went wrong. No playoff series wins since 1996. Who blames people for not coming to games to watch them get waxed 7-3? As far as I'm concerned, if things are still a mess in 2022 when the first year of a potential bail occurs, then Quebec can have them.

 

[Headshot77]

Tampa has been highly successful over the last 15 years. Two finals appearances, one win, two trips a 7 game conference final. Not to mention the other playoff years. The Panthers over the same span have two first round playoff exits. One of those was because we lost 18 games in shootouts and overtime. Every time something seems to go decent, the next year happens in which things went wrong. No playoff series wins since 1996. Who blames people for not coming to games to watch them get waxed 7-3? As far as I'm concerned, if things are still a mess in 2022 when the first year of a potential bail occurs, then Quebec can have them.

That is why I qualified by statement with "provided the team has at least some periods of success". A second team in Toronto would go under if it spent twenty-five years not doing anything significant. It's a given in any market that the team has to be decent to attract eyeballs

 

[Max1981]

The transplant excuse is silly. Every successful city/area will have a lot of transplants. Especially a sun belt city. There are tons of transplants in San Jose, LA, Dallas, Nashville, etc and no attendance problems. Horrific product on the ice year after year is the only answer you need.

 

[adsfan]

Have you been to Miami? Lets just say if you speak only Spanish you'll have no problems there. I have done plenty of business down there over the years and I find more accented English and even having to have translators around more and more each year. Not to say Latinos and foreign born fans can't enjoy the NHL, but they generally don't. They love the NBA and a hockey team can't compete well with that. Go to Ft Lauderdale and its a completely different story, but unfortunately Ft. Lauderdale is a long way from Sunrise when its rush hour. Broward County is demographically very close to Tampa.

When it isn't rush hour, you can drive from Ft Lauderdale to Sunrise in 20 minutes. It is only 10 miles. It is 30 miles from downtown Miami to Sunrise. You are saying that there aren't many hockey fans in Miami compared to Broward County. It would seem that the hockey arena is in the right county. Maybe it is in the wrong end of Broward County, but the land by the Atlantic Ocean is pricey!

 

[Fenway]

When it isn't rush hour, you can drive from Ft Lauderdale to Sunrise in 20 minutes. It is only 10 miles. It is 30 miles from downtown Miami to Sunrise. You are saying that there aren't many hockey fans in Miami compared to Broward County. It would seem that the hockey arena is in the right county. Maybe it is in the wrong end of Broward County, but the land by the Atlantic Ocean is pricey!

Problem is any weeknight game IS rush hour.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread South Florida is a very fragile market in all sports and the demographics for hockey are terrible. Tampa has done better but they also have before and after game options not really available in Sunrise.

NBC owns the local station in Miami and when was the last time the Panthers were actually on Channel 6?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Here is a list of all the Pro teams in Florida and their 1st year of play.
Miami Dolphins 1966
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1976
Miami Heat 1988
Orlando Magic 1989
Tampa Bay Lightning 1992
Miami Marlins 1993
Florida Panthers 1993
Jacksonville Jaguars 1995
Tampa Bay Rays 1998
Most of these teams have little to no history and most people in Florida continue to follow their "hometown" teams.

Yeah, the NHL wasn't the only league that got into the Florida game, or the only league with multiple teams in Florida, and every league has an issue with the, at least pro sports situation in the state. It's the 3rd largest state in terms of people though. Every league wants to get in on that, and try to make it work.

That Marlins situation is tough. All that money for Stanton, and then they sell him off on the cheap. You can make an argument for a cap, for contraction, or bad management/ownership.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yeah, the NHL wasn't the only league that got into the Florida game, or the only league with multiple teams in Florida, and every league has an issue with the, at least pro sports situation in the state. It's the 3rd largest state in terms of people though. Every league wants to get in on that, and try to make it work.

That Marlins situation is tough. All that money for Stanton, and then they sell him off on the cheap. You can make an argument for a cap, for contraction, or bad management/ownership.

I like your posts often on these issues, so I'll ask you. Where did the big 4 go wrong with Florida expansion? People bring up the Lightning, but even they were in trouble. The complaints hockey fans having about southern teams apply to almost every florida in every major sport. The Bucs, Jags are always near the bottom of attendance. Dolphins had blackouts right before the rule was lifted. Both baseball teams are about to sink again, the Magic are ok, but there are time the Heat will not sell out. What gives, and why did California and Texas do so much better with pro sports?