Player Discussion Start appreciating Monahan

lightstorm

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
2,239
1,191
He is one dimensional scorer, and even his scoring is one dimensional, albeit elite. But how often do you see him on a breakaway? Leading the rush? Beating defenders one-on-one? Scoring with a slap shot?
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
I appreciate Monahan's goal scoring ability.

I just evaluate that independant of his center-playing ability. I cringe seeing Monahan do things expected of centers like:

- helping his D behind the net to minimize defensive zone breakdowns
- backchecking
- breaking the puck out
- defensive zone coverage
- carrying then puck in

Our win over the Hurricanes (our most recent win) made it pretty clear that Ferland and Gaudreau drive play independent of Monahan. While Monahan's goal scoring is useful, it would be more useful on another line or position. Bennett, Backlund, and Jankowski are my preferred centers. Unfortunately CFHF continues to misunderstand my position and simply gets offended at my pointing out the facts. If Monahan were the player people claim he is, this team would be 1st in the division right now. A true 1C is our biggest hole on the roster. awe have a player who can fill the role but we continue to break him with tertiary deployment. You'd have thought people would see that, not unlike all of history - with guys like Ferland, William Karlsson, B.Schenn, MSL, etc, that expaneed roles sometimes DO need to be "handed" to a player and that CAN influence a better product. That is Bennett right now.... a player playing third line minutes satisfied to dump a puck to get a convenient line change, and Monahan the opposite... a great player spoiled by one John Gaudreau who could use a change in mentality.

He's not a very good center, so what is he?

What should he be?

I love Monahan and he gets a ton of unnecessary hate from people. But Tkachuk has shown why he’s our best player. He has good size, but he isn’t huge, Monahan is bigger and probably faster. But Tkachuk will pay the price to win, both have good IQ’s and shown up at key moments, but Tkachuk knows what it takes to win, he knows when to sacrifice his body and he knows when to cross the line.

I would never expect Monahan to become a Getzlaf type of physical imposing player, but I would like to see him engage himself down low and muck it up a little more. He shys away from the physical play and IMO it sets the tone for others, (see someone like Ferland). Tkachuk by comparison is known for dragging his mates into the game and stirring the pot. Bennett has shown glimpses of this but is not nearly as consistent enough at doing it. Chucky brings its every night, he honestly reminds me of Fleury.

I have Monahan in a tier slightly below Backlund in terms of physical play. He can handle himself on the ice, but he dishes nothing out. I just want him to be more assertive.

Monahan is a softie...as matter of fact, the Flames have quite a few of those.

It can be very situational, there are multiple times a game that every C goes below the dots and into the corners. Our selke candidate Backlund does this every single game. Again, no one is saying for Monahan to radically change his game, just use his size to be more of a presence out there. I am honestly surprised why that statement is so controversial. Is Crosby not a modern day NHL C because he plays with an edge?

Yeah, was he out sick tonight?

I know a guy at work that always call in sick after a long weekend

It's time to break him up with Gaudreau and let see what he is made of.

They need to distribute the talent and get more balance scoring anyway

I know I'm walking on eggshells but seriously being up all night on the web or playing some video game or something is ****ing up game readiness and compete. It's an age thing (I hope), not coming ready to compete hard. Something.

And I can't overly critique him on tonight because I wasn't paying him enough attention. When I watched I didn't notice much from the first line.

Patently false. When he's having his best games, he's still less impactful shift by shift vs guys like Bergeron, Tavares, Kuznetsov, Kadri, Malkin, Kopitar, Barkov, MacKinnon, Stamkos, Matthews, Schenn, Carter, Point, Johnson, Scheifele, Seguin, Getzlaf, Koivu, Turris, among others. Those are guys who make their presence on the ice force opponents to react.

When he's not having his best games he's an inferior center to Backlund/Jankowski/Bennett as you would get the same results with Matt Stajan out there.

Brought up some of the best of's.

Sean is the heart of the team. Johnny is the flash and Chucky is well fun.
 

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
He is one dimensional scorer, and even his scoring is one dimensional, albeit elite. But how often do you see him on a breakaway? Leading the rush? Beating defenders one-on-one? Scoring with a slap shot?
Correction: He was a one dimensional scorer in his first couple of years. He's now a pretty solid defensive player as well. And while he's not going to beat people on the rush or dangle around defenders very often, he's an above average passer.

edit: I see I'm responding to an old thread. Oh well.
 

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
Yeah he’s +15 while playing the other teams best defencemen and Mickael Backlund line night in night out...

He looked hurt to me last night. He’s not fast but last night he was struggling to get around.

He’s not flashy, that’s why people don’t like him. But substance > flash.
Look who nailed it on the injury front. Good call.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
Give him credit for playing injured. Most people wouldnt be able to do that

but come on, it doesnt change anything on the style that he plays. Great scorer but doesnt intimidate anybody.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Hoxville

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Give him credit for playing injured. Most people wouldnt be able to do that

but come on, it doesnt change anything on the style that he plays. Great scorer but doesnt intimidate anybody.

Really... he gets injured and the offense dries up and you are still banging that drum?

4 SURGERIES ????? Treliving had never heard of another player ever needing that many. Half the season he was playing without his legs and one arm tied behind his back.

I guess some are just delusional.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
Really... he gets injured and the offense dries up and you are still banging that drum?

4 SURGERIES ????? Treliving had never heard of another player ever needing that many. Half the season he was playing without his legs and one arm tied behind his back.

I guess some are just delusional.


Do you know how to read? I never said he is bad and not a key player. The only thing I said is he does not play a physical intimidating game. And that is long before he got injured.

His injury doesnt change anything about the style that he plays. It only shows that he has gut.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Hoxville

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
How many cups has Lindros, Kessler and Getzlaf won? Jumbo Joe?

Who carried the Tampa against Calgary... Not Lecavalier ... St. Louis and Richards

Kopitar? Sakic? Stevie Y? Bergeron? Toews?

How scary is Johansen? Scheifele?

None of those guys are/were intimidating physically. The big lugs were hockey 10 years ago. Your logic doesn't jive with the times.
 
Last edited:

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Really... he gets injured and the offense dries up and you are still banging that drum?

4 SURGERIES ????? Treliving had never heard of another player ever needing that many. Half the season he was playing without his legs and one arm tied behind his back..

Which is all highly commendable. But I'm not sure what any of that says to disprove my post that you "quoted", ostensibly for public shaming as CFHFers are wont to do. Nothing I said changed. If anything changed it is that we may need to start worrying about him being injury-prone.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
How many cups has Lindros, Kessler and Getzlaf won? Jumbo Joe?

Who carried the Tampa against Calgary... Not Lecavalier ... St. Louis and Richards

Kopitar? Sakic? Stevie Y? Bergeron? Toews?

How scary is Johansen? Scheifele?

None of those guys are/were intimidating physically. The big lugs were hockey 10 years ago. Your logic doesn't jive with the times.


What are you trying to say? His injuries didnt make him elite. If anything, it's just a good excuse why he and the team shit the bed.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
I said I’d like to see Monahan be more of a physical presence below the dots. Today and tomorrow my opinion will be that I’d like to see Mony be more of a presence below the dots...

Guy is also a beast for playing the way he did, injured.
 
  • Like
Reactions: No Draft

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Which is all highly commendable. But I'm not sure what any of that says to disprove my post that you "quoted", ostensibly for public shaming as CFHFers are wont to do. Nothing I said changed. If anything changed it is that we may need to start worrying about him being injury-prone.
Everything you have said is Monahan's points are directly tied to Johnny. What we have learned is it likely goes the opposite way to a larger degree.

Unlike many here I have said Johnny is not the key to the franchise and that Sean is. Treliving himself could not have been more emphatic about that... The end of the season definitely lends more credence to my argument than yours. Sean Monahan has one thing none of the other centers you tout have -- Hockey IQ coming out the wahoo.

Sam doesn't have it.
Backs doesn't have it.
Janko has more than backs but still is not close to Sean.

You refuse to acknowledge that there is an intangible that Monahan possesses that none of your "stars" possess. In the last three years there is only 1 pairing more productive than Sean and Johnny. 1.. Obviously when in comparison with all the other teams Calgary's top line is indeed elite. Full stop.

You have questioned his leadership. His skills ... His character and yet he defies all that you say when in actuality your "STAR" Sam Bennett isn't even capable of third line duties. WAIT ...Sam will be an EXCELLENT first or second line winger one day but he will never be the center you see. He has repeatedly been given the opportunity to play with the best this team has to offer and keeps coming up short. He simply does not have the hockey IQ to be a center in this league and that is OKAY.

I know you will never recognize these truths but one day Sean will bring the cup home as Calgary's premier center and even then you will be insisting otherwise but that is the cold hard truth. Nobody in the under 25 group has the fortitude and tenacity that Sean has. He has brought it and you are still wanting.
 
Last edited:

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Some fun stats.

Sean is second for points among players born in 1993 or later with 281 points second only to MacKinnon with 303. 38th overall for the last 5 seasons.

Sean is first in goals born in 1993 or later with 138 and is 18th overall for the last 5 seasons.

Lastly Sean is 5th overall for the last five years in game winning goals. He has shown he is captain clutch of his generation.
 

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
How many cups has Lindros, Kessler and Getzlaf won? Jumbo Joe?

Who carried the Tampa against Calgary... Not Lecavalier ... St. Louis and Richards

Kopitar? Sakic? Stevie Y? Bergeron? Toews?

How scary is Johansen? Scheifele?

None of those guys are/were intimidating physically. The big lugs were hockey 10 years ago. Your logic doesn't jive with the times.
I have to nitpick this post a little. Getzlaf has a cup, and Koptir, Bergeorn, and Toews all play hard checking games - they may not be a threat to beat you up, but they are much more physical than Monahan.

I agree with the premise of your argument, that Monahan doesn't need to be a physical player to be valuable, but I don't think those are the best examples to support the argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DominikBokkFan

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
Sean Monahan has one thing none of the other centers you tout have -- Hockey IQ coming out the wahoo.

Sam doesn't have it.
Backs doesn't have it.
Janko has more than backs but still is not close to Sean.
I also strooooooooongly disagree with this. Monahan has hockey IQ, so does Backlund. Janks has some, Bennett has like, negative. You do not become a borderline Selke finalist by lacking hockey IQ.
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
I also strooooooooongly disagree with this. Monahan has hockey IQ, so does Backlund. Janks has some, Bennett has like, negative. You do not become a borderline Selke finalist by lacking hockey IQ.

Backs not having IQ is the funniest thing I've read on this board in a long time.

Offensively he does not have the inherent talent to produce. Sean Monahan has a career shooting percentage of 14.9%. Jankowski had a shooting percentage of 17.9% in the AHL and 14.4% in his first NHL season with little to no PP time. Backlunds career shooting percentage is 8.9%. The long and short is while Backlund has had top 6 minutes for the last 5 seasons with the best talent on the Flames and offensively has done nothing spectacular with plenty of PP and regular strength time.

Considering Backlunds possession stats and TOI are so good his point total is very underwhelming.

Offensively Backlund is sub-par in regards generating goals and assists. Nothing highlights that more than Chucky going to the PP and generating almost a third of his points away from Backlund.

What is funny should be how people evaluate players in incorrect ways. Will Backs shoot 6.9% this year... Probably not but to expect a shooting percentage above 11% is highly unlikely.
 

The Gnome

Registered User
May 17, 2010
4,678
740
Calgary
ugh, Monahan has my respect because all he does (along with Gaudreau) is account for the bulk of our offence. Anyone who wants more out of Monahan should take a quick look at our roster from last season. Almost all of our players deserve more hate than Monahan. Backlund having low hockey IQ...This thread is hot garbage imo, I cannot even debate this kind of lunacy. Just goes to show how one bad season leads to many fans jumping ship and flinging crap at any/every player they can.

Backlund and Monahan are not this teams's problem, in fact, they are positives. Depth scoring, goaltending injuries, and questionable coaching were our downfall.
 

MonyontheMoney

Registered User
Apr 5, 2015
4,429
520
Offensively he does not have the inherent talent to produce. Sean Monahan has a career shooting percentage of 14.9%. Jankowski had a shooting percentage of 17.9% in the AHL and 14.4% in his first NHL season with little to no PP time. Backlunds career shooting percentage is 8.9%. The long and short is while Backlund has had top 6 minutes for the last 5 seasons with the best talent on the Flames and offensively has done nothing spectacular with plenty of PP and regular strength time.

Considering Backlunds possession stats and TOI are so good his point total is very underwhelming.

Offensively Backlund is sub-par in regards generating goals and assists. Nothing highlights that more than Chucky going to the PP and generating almost a third of his points away from Backlund.

What is funny should be how people evaluate players in incorrect ways. Will Backs shoot 6.9% this year... Probably not but to expect a shooting percentage above 11% is highly unlikely.

Which part of this fluff has anything to do with proving Backlund lacking IQ?

*Fluff is also a generous term here. Most of this post is completely laughable.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Offensively he does not have the inherent talent to produce. Sean Monahan has a career shooting percentage of 14.9%. Jankowski had a shooting percentage of 17.9% in the AHL and 14.4% in his first NHL season with little to no PP time. Backlunds career shooting percentage is 8.9%. The long and short is while Backlund has had top 6 minutes for the last 5 seasons with the best talent on the Flames and offensively has done nothing spectacular with plenty of PP and regular strength time.

Considering Backlunds possession stats and TOI are so good his point total is very underwhelming.

Offensively Backlund is sub-par in regards generating goals and assists. Nothing highlights that more than Chucky going to the PP and generating almost a third of his points away from Backlund.

What is funny should be how people evaluate players in incorrect ways. Will Backs shoot 6.9% this year... Probably not but to expect a shooting percentage above 11% is highly unlikely.

By your brutal logic Henrik Zetterberg has low IQ as does Alex Ovechkin, while Alex Tanguay and Jiri Hudler had elite IQ.

SH% is a function of many things - shooting skill, an inverse of shot volume (which is a function of many things itself), and luck. Hockey IQ can influence it but SH% is not a measure of hockey IQ. Hockey IQ is far more nuanced than the way CFHF paints it to pump mony up for being a dedicated triggerman.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cyrano

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
Offensively he does not have the inherent talent to produce. Sean Monahan has a career shooting percentage of 14.9%. Jankowski had a shooting percentage of 17.9% in the AHL and 14.4% in his first NHL season with little to no PP time. Backlunds career shooting percentage is 8.9%. The long and short is while Backlund has had top 6 minutes for the last 5 seasons with the best talent on the Flames and offensively has done nothing spectacular with plenty of PP and regular strength time.

Considering Backlunds possession stats and TOI are so good his point total is very underwhelming.

Offensively Backlund is sub-par in regards generating goals and assists. Nothing highlights that more than Chucky going to the PP and generating almost a third of his points away from Backlund.

What is funny should be how people evaluate players in incorrect ways. Will Backs shoot 6.9% this year... Probably not but to expect a shooting percentage above 11% is highly unlikely.
What does hockey IQ have to do with shooting ability? I'd never argue that Backlund has top end offensive skills: his shooting ability is average, his passing ability is average, and as a result he doesn't play a very creative offensive game. But he thinks the game incredibly well - defensively especially, but he also thinks it well offensively. Notice when he's forechecking that he's quite good at anticipating where the puck is going to go and what an opposing player will do with it. He's also good at getting into high percentage shooting areas; just not as good at actually getting the puck into the net.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->