Player Discussion Start appreciating Monahan

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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I think that would help more if we played off the rush more frequently. But you look at slower teams like SJ and Edmonton and the big-body centers they employ like Thornton and Draisaitl. Both of them lack any significant foot speed but defenseman respect them because have ok hands and can use their size to hold onto the puck. Fhey can drive wide and gain the zone quite easily. Whereas, Monahan is bordering on stone hands and doesn't really shield the puck as well as either them which puts on all the burden of playmaking on Gaudreau.

Look no further than Tkachuk and pre-bye week Jankowski for examples of slow Flames players that can hold on to the puck and make plays happen despite their slowness.

I would say that hand-speed can certainly replace foot-speed in the puck-handling aspect, you're right. I just think that it's easier for a guy like Monahan to become quicker with his feet than to expect him to become a puck-handling wizard. And in addition to that, foot-speed helps with many other facets of the game that puck-handling ability doesn't help with.

Thornton is a bit of a special case due to his reach, though.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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But that's the thing. He doesn't carry the puck because if he does, he quickly gets caught up to by the opposition. This is the big difference I see in Backlund's game that helps him be effective. Backlund's skating at this point in his career allows him to pick up a puck in a tight situation, take three of four quick strides and relieve the pressure instantly. Monahan only gets this if he knocks over his opponent during the puck battle. The speed you're moving at also affects how you get defended 1-on-1.

Being quicker with his feet would help Monahan with basically every facet of the game that people harp on right now. It helps him with puck-carrying, it helps him with the back-check, it helps him with supporting the play quicker and it helps him get to loose pucks on the forecheck. All these "centre-ice position" details OKG talks about all come down to skating and IQ. He has the IQ, but the skating could do with improvement. Bennett's the other way around.
He also doesn't rush the puck because he knows passing it is the quickest way to get it up ice
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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I love Monahan and he gets a ton of unnecessary hate from people. But Tkachuk has shown why he’s our best player. He has good size, but he isn’t huge, Monahan is bigger and probably faster. But Tkachuk will pay the price to win, both have good IQ’s and shown up at key moments, but Tkachuk knows what it takes to win, he knows when to sacrifice his body and he knows when to cross the line.

I would never expect Monahan to become a Getzlaf type of physical imposing player, but I would like to see him engage himself down low and muck it up a little more. He shys away from the physical play and IMO it sets the tone for others, (see someone like Ferland). Tkachuk by comparison is known for dragging his mates into the game and stirring the pot. Bennett has shown glimpses of this but is not nearly as consistent enough at doing it. Chucky brings its every night, he honestly reminds me of Fleury.
 
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DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
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Tkachuk>>Monahan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bennett
 

JPeeper

Hail Satan!
Jan 4, 2015
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Half way through the season last year I told my friends that Tkachuk will be our best player going forward. He is only further proving my point this year. Kid is already a star, the most underrated star in the league.

Mony is going through a slump and is the only one who seemingly is getting shit on by Flames fans, yet Bennett is even colder, Janko hasn't done anything in weeks. It continually blows my mind the hate Mony gets. I also hate the comments people make about him not being physical. Just because he doesn't blow guys up doesn't mean he isn't physical. I've seen so many comments about players on the Flames being soft when they aren't soft at all. I don't understand what these people are thinking when they say players like Backlund, Mony, and Hamilton are soft. It's beyond stupid. There is no one, NO ONE who gets slashed and cross checked more than Monahan does in a game, NO ONE. Guy sits in the slot, skates around the slot trying to get open, goes down low, getting slashed and cross checked constantly. And he uses his body on the boards all the time to win puck battles, I have no idea what games people are watching when they say he doesn't use his frame, because he doesn't hold the puck like Jagr and Getzlaf and use his ass to shield the puck? The Flames have like 3 players who do that, Tkachuk, Bennett and Janko and 2 of them don't even score that often.

I would like to see Mony split from Gaudreau for a couple weeks and see what could happen with our offense. It's not like we're scoring goals anymore.

Gaudreau-Janko-Bennett
Tkachuk-Monahan-Frolik
Mangiapane-Backlund-Ferland
Anyone but Lazar and Stajan.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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There is no stat record for that, but what does getting crosschecked have to do with being physical? Every single player that parks themselves in front of the net is going to get hit, it has been that way since as long as I can remember, it doesn’t make the receiving player physical for taking a hit.

I think Monahan is the best goal scorer on our team. I think he’s an underrated passer and I’d like to see him continue to utilize his skills more. I think he’s really improved his skating since entering the league and his defensive play this season from the beginning of last has improved immensely. So there’s much to like about his game.

Again I love Monahan, I always have since even before we drafted him. My only criticism of him is that he’s a big framed player and doesn’t do much to take extra space on the ice for himself. He’s also not a physical player whatsoever, he averages around 1 hit every 3 games. I don’t ever expect him to be a black and blue player, but last season in the playoffs he looked like a beast and was more engaged than I ever seen him before. I was hoping that was going to continue and unfortunately it hasn’t. All I want is for him to assert himself more and use his nice frame to take over games. When the puck goes in the corner, go throw a check on a guy, so in the 3rd period the forwards on the opposing team are worn down a little more. There’s really wrong with saying that, if I was the coach I would be demanding it. A great example of a player he should be mimicking is RyJo.
 

JPeeper

Hail Satan!
Jan 4, 2015
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There is no stat record for that, but what does getting crosschecked have to do with being physical? Every single player that parks themselves in front of the net is going to get hit, it has been that way since as long as I can remember, it doesn’t make the receiving player physical for taking a hit.

I think Monahan is the best goal scorer on our team. I think he’s an underrated passer and I’d like to see him continue to utilize his skills more. I think he’s really improved his skating since entering the league and his defensive play this season from the beginning of last has improved immensely. So there’s much to like about his game.

Again I love Monahan, I always have since even before we drafted him. My only criticism of him is that he’s a big framed player and doesn’t do much to take extra space on the ice for himself. He’s also not a physical player whatsoever, he averages around 1 hit every 3 games. I don’t ever expect him to be a black and blue player, but last season in the playoffs he looked like a beast and was more engaged than I ever seen him before. I was hoping that was going to continue and unfortunately it hasn’t. All I want is for him to assert himself more and use his nice frame to take over games. When the puck goes in the corner, go throw a check on a guy, so in the 3rd period the forwards on the opposing team are worn down a little more. There’s really wrong with saying that, if I was the coach I would be demanding it. A great example of a player he should be mimicking is RyJo.

Guy gets called soft all the time. This is the opposite of being soft.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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Guy gets called soft all the time. This is the opposite of being soft.

So you’re saying Monahan getting hit makes him a physical player?

It’s hilarious that any critiquing gets so much flack. All I’m saying is that I’d like to see the guy go and hit someone on occasion and use his size to his advantage, like we asked of Colborne. It’s not as if I’m knocking Monahan or saying he’s any less of a player.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
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@JPeeper
Monahan will always get more critique than Bennett, because one guy's paid to be a top line player and plays with one of the best players in the game. Period. While the other is paid like a bottom 6 forward and seems to only play with bottom 6 forwards.

The one thing about Bennett you can't disregard is you know he's on the ice. He's physical, emotional, killing penalties and is always creating; all while being really fast. When Mony's not scoring, you barely know he's on the team.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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Padded Room
So you’re saying Monahan getting hit makes him a physical player?

It’s hilarious that any critiquing gets so much flack. All I’m saying is that I’d like to see the guy go and hit someone on occasion and use his size to his advantage, like we asked of Colborne. It’s not as if I’m knocking Monahan or saying he’s any less of a player.
I think he is saying that Monahan absorbs punishment and uses his size to do so, as he goes to the dirty areas. Which is 100% factual, he's not soft, but he also isn't physical.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
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Calgary
I think he is saying that Monahan absorbs punishment and uses his size to do so, as he goes to the dirty areas. Which is 100% factual, he's not soft, but he also isn't physical.

I have Monahan in a tier slightly below Backlund in terms of physical play. He can handle himself on the ice, but he dishes nothing out. I just want him to be more assertive.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
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Monahan is a softie...as matter of fact, the Flames have quite a few of those.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,391
11,074
I think he is saying that Monahan absorbs punishment and uses his size to do so, as he goes to the dirty areas. Which is 100% factual, he's not soft, but he also isn't physical.

He's not the trenchman on his line.
Monahan goes to quiet areas in the slot, he's not a mucky dirty area player. I can't honestly think of a time I've seen Monahan muck it up in a corner battle in which he won. I wish the kid used his size because he's a big strong body that could really do it. I really wish he could go to the Joe Colborne school of body positioning and usage... because when we got Joe he was unwilling to do board work, and by the time we let him go, he'd protect pucks so well.
 

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
15,602
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Monahan isn’t physical. But that’s the way the game is.

The mentality used to be, finish your check on the forecheck.

Now it’s, forget finishing your check. Get your ass back into defensive positioning and plug up/outnumber the other team in the neutral zone.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,442
14,718
Victoria
Monahan isn’t physical. But that’s the way the game is.

The mentality used to be, finish your check on the forecheck.

Now it’s, forget finishing your check. Get your ass back into defensive positioning and plug up/outnumber the other team in the neutral zone.

Yeah, exactly. Finishing checks really isn't a good idea for a centre, because the vast majority of hits these days happen after the puck has already been moved, meaning that the hit is taking you away from your defensive position. Generally, the centre is expected to remain high, be the first man back on the back-check, and take up the lowest position in the defensive zone among the forwards. Hard to do that if you give yourself a hole to climb out of on the backcheck by finishing a check.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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It can be very situational, there are multiple times a game that every C goes below the dots and into the corners. Our selke candidate Backlund does this every single game. Again, no one is saying for Monahan to radically change his game, just use his size to be more of a presence out there. I am honestly surprised why that statement is so controversial. Is Crosby not a modern day NHL C because he plays with an edge?
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,442
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Victoria
It can be very situational, there are multiple times a game that every C goes below the dots and into the corners. Our selke candidate Backlund does this every single game. Again, no one is saying for Monahan to radically change his game, just use his size to be more of a presence out there. I am honestly surprised why that statement is so controversial. Is Crosby not a modern day NHL C because he plays with an edge?
I guess I don't see the distinction between Monahan and Backlund that you're seeing in that regard. And maybe I'll have to watch Crosby more to see the hitting you're seeing.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
I guess I don't see the distinction between Monahan and Backlund that you're seeing in that regard. And maybe I'll have to watch Crosby more to see the hitting you're seeing.

Backlund definitely plays more of a hard game than Monahan. I have a feeling he’s been forced to do so because Tkachuk is his linemate, but there’s a difference there. And Sid has been known as a mucker for sometime now. He runs guys a lot more than people think. Again, I’d be happy for Monahan to play with a Johansen level of physicality to his game, I don’t think that’s asking to much at all.
 

Tofveve

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
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Monahan has great all round skill. Great puck handling skills. Great IQ. Great passing. Great shooting.

Consistency is the only hole in his game. When he's on, he looks as good as any centre in this league outside of Crosby IMO. His consistency is f***ing atrocious though. IMO.
 
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DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
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Monahan has great all round skill. Great puck handling skills. Great IQ. Great passing. Great shooting.

Consistency is the only hole in his game. When he's on, he looks as good as any centre in this league outside of Crosby IMO. His consistency is ****ing atrocious though. IMO.


Yeah, was he out sick tonight?

I know a guy at work that always call in sick after a long weekend

It's time to break him up with Gaudreau and let see what he is made of.

They need to distribute the talent and get more balance scoring anyway
 
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Tofveve

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
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Yeah, was he out sick tonight?

I know a guy at work that always call in sick after a long weekend

It's time to break him up with Gaudreau and let see what he is made of.

I know I'm walking on eggshells but seriously being up all night on the web or playing some video game or something is f***ing up game readiness and compete. It's an age thing (I hope), not coming ready to compete hard. Something.

And I can't overly critique him on tonight because I wasn't paying him enough attention. When I watched I didn't notice much from the first line.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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. When he's on, he looks as good as any centre in this league outside of Crosby

Patently false. When he's having his best games, he's still less impactful shift by shift vs guys like Bergeron, Tavares, Kuznetsov, Kadri, Malkin, Kopitar, Barkov, MacKinnon, Stamkos, Matthews, Schenn, Carter, Point, Johnson, Scheifele, Seguin, Getzlaf, Koivu, Turris, among others. Those are guys who make their presence on the ice force opponents to react.

When he's not having his best games he's an inferior center to Backlund/Jankowski/Bennett as you would get the same results with Matt Stajan out there.
 
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Tofveve

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
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Patently false. When he's having his best games, he's still less impactful shift by shift vs guys like Bergeron, Tavares, Kuznetsov, Kadri, Malkin, Kopitar, Barkov, MacKinnon, Stamkos, Matthews, Schenn, Carter, Point, Johnson, Scheifele, Seguin, Getzlaf, Koivu, Turris, among others. Those are guys who make their presence on the ice force opponents to react.

When he's not havig his best games he's an inferior center to Backlund/Jankowski/Bennett as you would get he same results with Matt Stajan out there.

When he's on he's right with the best IMO.

When he's not, which is like half the year, he's bottom 5.
 

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