Movies: Star Wars VIII The Last Jedi, for those who have seen it! (SPOILERS)

[Hivemind]

I mean... I legitimately loved The Last Jedi, but comparing issues with that soft science fantasy with issues with Interstellar seems like a pretty big leap to me. I understand the idea of different standards for different attempts at authenticity, but that seems to be nitpicking to a great degree, especially as Interstellar probably handled time dilation better than really any major film that I can think of in recent memory. Or heck, even mentioned it versus not being a thing in most sci-fi flicks.

And I'm saying that as someone that personally thinks that Interstellar is Nolan's best film, to be fair.

It's not really nitpicking, at least in my view. Interstellar made orbital mechanics and time dilation a plot point, and spent a scene on exposition to explain it. Yet their explanation didn't hold water when examined closer. In order for the spacecraft to maintain a constant orbital position that they could return to, it would have to be at a lagrange point. Gravity has even more effect at lagrange points, meaning the time dialation would be even more extreme at a lagrange point than elsewhere. So the scientist remaining on the ship would have experienced less time than those on the planet.

In most movies, that would absolutely be nit picking. But the fact that interstellar took time to create a scene of exposition to explain it AND it was integral to plot points makes me much more frustrated by this oversight. By contrast, a movie like Star Wars is a fantastic universe with space wizards and plasma cannons. You already have to accept a great deal of creative liberty when it comes to science to appreciate the fantasy world in which Star Wars exists. I'm able to suspend disbelief a lot more when talking about the mumbo-jumbo science of Star Wars, because Star Wars is already setting aside actual science.

 

[Osprey]

By contrast, a movie like Star Wars is a fantastic universe with space wizards and plasma cannons. You already have to accept a great deal of creative liberty when it comes to science to appreciate the fantasy world in which Star Wars exists. I'm able to suspend disbelief a lot more when talking about the mumbo-jumbo science of Star Wars, because Star Wars is already setting aside actual science.

I'm with you on that, but, just to nitpick... Star Wars is actually set in our universe, just in a different galaxy. That's established by the opening words of each film. Perhaps that contributes a tiny bit to some people expecting or wanting a little more adherence to science. It may not be very reasonable to expect that, especially since Lucas probably didn't have a complete idea of the world that he would create when he typed out that opening line for the first time, but it's an inconsistency that kind of hangs over the franchise, regardless. For the most part, we deal with it by ignoring it and doing what you're doing: imagining that it's a different, fantastical universe, since that helps the suspension of disbelief.

 

[MadDevil]

Bought it digitally yesterday and I think I enjoy it more with every viewing. For some reason the Luke/Leia farewell scene hit me harder this time around.

Apparently if you have the right app you can also access a version of the film with just the score and no other sound. Kind of weird that it's not just in the bonus features, but I'm still definitely going to watch it if I can.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Bought it yesterday. I still think it’s a pretty damn good film. The casino subplot is still terrible, though.

The throne room fight is easily the best fight scene in the series. No lifeless, overehearsed sword choreography. Just a brutal, messy scrap. Love that scene.

Visually this movie is the best in the series.

 

[tacogeoff]

Didn't realize it released already. Will have to pick it up tomorrow

 

[MadDevil]

Didn't realize it released already. Will have to pick it up tomorrow

It's only available digitally right now. The Blu Ray comes out on the 27th.

 

[MadDevil]

Bought it yesterday. I still think it’s a pretty damn good film. The casino subplot is still terrible, though.

The throne room fight is easily the best fight scene in the series. No lifeless, overehearsed sword choreography. Just a brutal, messy scrap. Love that scene.

Visually this movie is the best in the series.

The extra where they have the throne room scene with Serkis' mo-cap performance was nice. He's just so damn good at what he does.

 

[CycloneLaunch]

Finally saw it last night, could've been the second best SW film behind Empire imo but has a couple of glaring faults. The whole casino part was unnecessary, the humor and dialogue felt super forced at some points. Laura Derns character could've been cut altogether. All the Luke/Rey/Ben stuff was great.

Has some of the best moments in Star Wars film, but also some of the worst.

 

[HanSolo]

I still put it well above the prequels but the plot holes screamed in my head louder on the most recent rewatch Still enjoyable and fun but an exercise in missed potential for true greatness. The social commentary with Canto Bight was just jarringly out of place. Lucas never shied way from allegorical links to the real world. But they were more subtle and drove the story rather than feeling like a shoehorned in plot element. Hell even the prequel politics, poorly executed as they were felt like they were an actual part of the plot. I've got nothing wrong with exploring war profiteering, class disparity, and more grayness of the good guys but it felt like Rian wrote a first script and thought "okay where can I put a segment that gives this movie social relevance with a political message? And then came up with the Canto Bight side plot.

 

[HanSolo]

Bought it yesterday. I still think it’s a pretty damn good film. The casino subplot is still terrible, though.

The throne room fight is easily the best fight scene in the series. No lifeless, overehearsed sword choreography. Just a brutal, messy scrap. Love that scene.

Visually this movie is the best in the series.

It does nag at me that we didn't find out more about Snoke. You can make that excuse for OT Palpatine since we didn't need to know Backstory but it only makes the lack of info barely acceptable for Snoke. He's key to bridging so much between 6 and 7

 

[MadDevil]

It does nag at me that we didn't find out more about Snoke. You can make that excuse for OT Palpatine since we didn't need to know Backstory but it only makes the lack of info barely acceptable for Snoke. He's key to bridging so much between 6 and 7

I get the feeling they didn't really have much of a backstory for him to begin with. Abrams basically took the toys out of the box and left them on the floor for the next director to play with. It's good to allow the next director to have his own vision, but at the same time I think you need to have an overall plan for the trilogy for your directors to work within. Sometimes it just feels like they're playing hot potato with this trilogy.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I get the feeling they didn't really have much of a backstory for him to begin with. Abrams basically took the toys out of the box and left them on the floor for the next director to play with. It's good to allow the next director to have his own vision, but at the same time I think you need to have an overall plan for the trilogy for your directors to work within. Sometimes it just feels like they're playing hot potato with this trilogy.

I can't quite shake the feeling that there may have been basic outline at its commencement, but when they brought Rian Johnson on board a lot of those threads were thrown in the trash while coming up with his own take.

The more I think about this one the more I feel like this was subpar. Part of it, at least on a personal level, has to go to Abrams for blowing his load on TFA. Having the film end like it did removed the possibility for the passage of time between films and likely forced Johnson into a certain framework, a problem none of the other films had. I could go on about some of the small adjustments that could have done a greater service to set up the second film, but then again I doubt it's of much use at this point.

But yeah, Canto Bight (and I would add Finn/Rose's progression as a whole) was terrible. It felt disjointed from the rest of the film, sure, but what's even worse was how this particular character thread concluded on Crait. It boggles my mind how Johnson and the rest of the team okayed this subplot considering the rest of the movie is quite functional by comparison.

 

[Pilky01]

I was so confused when Rose kissed Finn. It came completely out of nowhere.

 

[HanSolo]

I was so confused when Rose kissed Finn. It came completely out of nowhere.

Uh. There's plenty that was not fleshed out but I wasn't surprised by that at all.

Rose starts out idolizing him, flustered by his mere presence. Her faith in him gets shaken hard when he tries to escape destruction. She stops viewing him as a hero and exists in a state of doubt. As the story goes on she keeps seeing Finn actually is a hero, progressively getting more and more proud of him culminating in his attempted sacrifice. It all seemed pretty tropey and expected to me.

Though on that note, I actually like Finn as a character and I think he's charming when he's not asked to deliver forced humor. But I thought him giving his life to buy the Resistance time would've been the most impactful thing for his character arc and would've imprinted the film with a tragic but noble moment that would echo as one of the memorable moments of the whole saga. The last second save cheapened the moment. Sure the fact that he was willing to give his life for good is on paper the best culmination for his character development but Rose pulling a near impossible move to save him for some cheesy line and to keep his character alive does take the bite out of the moment. I mean can you imagine if he had sacrificed himself. If Rey reunites with the Resistance never able to see her friend again. The Resistance mournful but energized by Finn's courageous act. It would be a magnificent diving board for starting the plot in Episode 9. But the opportunity was missed.

 

[KingBran]

Watched it for the second time since it was released digitally.

Just as bad as seeing it for the first time. Awful, awful movie.


There's a bright spot though, some of these deleted scenes are good. Like when Luke is messing with Rey telling her scavengers are coming to the island to raid the house-maids.

 

[johnjm22]

The throne room fight is easily the best fight scene in the series. No lifeless, overehearsed sword choreography. Just a brutal, messy scrap. Love that scene.

Is that the best thing you can say about it?

Fight scenes have never been what made SW good.

Visually this movie is the best in the series.

Disagree. It looks too clean IMO and there's some flat out bad green screen in it.

Supposedly this was shot on film. Doesn't feel like it.

 

[johnjm22]

Though on that note, I actually like Finn as a character and I think he's charming when he's not asked to deliver forced humor.

They've completely botched his character.

He's a defected Stormtrooper. That's a great setup. Could do a lot of interesting stuff with that, but they haven't explored it at all. Instead he's a dopey side character. "Bring it on chrome dome!"

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I still don't understand what the directors of both films were going with when it comes to Phasma. Sure, she could be the primary rival of Finn, but they have spent a grand total of, what, two minutes on screen together? And she has done hardly anything worthwhile.

If I'm Gwendoline Christie I ask for a serious bump in screen time if they even think of "reviving" me (for the second time). She is a solid actress and has gotten nothing to work with.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I still don't understand what the directors of both films were going with when it comes to Phasma. Sure, she could be the primary rival of Finn, but they have spent a grand total of, what, two minutes on screen together? And she has done hardly anything worthwhile.

If I'm Gwendoline Christie I ask for a serious bump in screen time if they even think of "reviving" me (for the second time). She is a solid actress and has gotten nothing to work with.

I think it's time to cut their losses on this one. Phasma coming back strong in the third film after being relegated to a running gag of sorts would hardly salvage the character after all (none) of that.

 

[RandV]

I still don't understand what the directors of both films were going with when it comes to Phasma. Sure, she could be the primary rival of Finn, but they have spent a grand total of, what, two minutes on screen together? And she has done hardly anything worthwhile.

If I'm Gwendoline Christie I ask for a serious bump in screen time if they even think of "reviving" me (for the second time). She is a solid actress and has gotten nothing to work with.

Speaking of not really using the actor, remember the Brienne vs the Hound fight?

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Rory and I might not be killing each other, but you’re both making contact with those swords. We are two people that really go for it in that situation. Like poor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau last season with the [sword fight] said, “Can you take 10 percent off this please, rather than smashing at me?” Rory and I were quite serious about it. We want there to be contact —rolling around in the dirt on a rock face with your hand bleeding. You’re in pain, just emotional and screaming through it, and blood is pouring out of your mouth and you’re falling over when you’re meant to and falling when you’re not meant to. I like it to be real. So certain things that are done that are very real and you’re genuinely scared because you look into the other person’s eyes and they mean it. It’s frightening—that is one of the few times I’ve not had to do any acting. I was screaming, “F–k you! Come on!” Blood everywhere, going insane. It is f–king mental.

...or maybe that's a little too much for Star Wars

 

[Osprey]

They've completely botched his character.

He's a defected Stormtrooper. That's a great setup. Could do a lot of interesting stuff with that, but they haven't explored it at all. Instead he's a dopey side character. "Bring it on chrome dome!"

In The Force Awakens, Finn was flirting uncomfortably with the dense, cowardly, comic relief, black sidekick character trope that's been present in Hollywood ever since the days of blackface. They had a chance to make some amends for that in The Last Jedi and demonstrate that that was only a starting point for character development by making him a more flattering character. They arguably made things even worse, though, by having him try to desert (just like he did at the start of TFA, erasing any character development since then) and giving him cheesy one-liners. He could've been such an interesting character, but he hasn't been much more than a blockbuster movie trope.

 

[HanSolo]

They've completely botched his character.

He's a defected Stormtrooper. That's a great setup. Could do a lot of interesting stuff with that, but they haven't explored it at all. Instead he's a dopey side character. "Bring it on chrome dome!"

At all? He's regarded as a hero within the resistance and he knew his way around a dreadnought and how they might've been tracking the resistance. What more do you want exactly?

 

[johnjm22]

At all? He's regarded as a hero within the resistance and he knew his way around a dreadnought and how they might've been tracking the resistance. What more do you want exactly?

Jar Jar Binks was the first Gungan to represent his people in the Galactic Senate and eventually became a senator himself. He was one of the first and only Gungan's ever to travel abroad in the Galaxy. He served as one of the lead commanders in the Battle of Naboo and became a General in the Gungan Army.

Apparently you think he's a great character.

 

[HanSolo]

Jar Jar Binks was the first Gungan to represent his people in the Galactic Senate and eventually became a senator himself. He was one of the first and only Gungan's ever to travel abroad in the Galaxy. He served as one of the lead commanders in the Battle of Naboo and became a General in the Gungan Army.

Apparently you think he's a great character.

Yeah I don't have much interest in a debate if that's how you conduct yourself.

I didn't say Finn was a great character. I just like him. His humor is not the greatest but it's not as atrocious to me as it is to you. How horrible.

 

[johnjm22]

In The Force Awakens, Finn was flirting uncomfortably with the dense, cowardly, comic relief, black sidekick character trope that's been present in Hollywood ever since the days of blackface. They had a chance to make some amends for that in The Last Jedi and demonstrate that that was only a starting point for character development by making him a more flattering character. They arguably made things even worse, though, by having him try to desert (just like he did at the start of TFA, erasing any character development since then) and giving him cheesy one-liners. He could've been such an interesting character, but he hasn't been much more than a blockbuster movie trope.

I didn't want to bring this up, but yes, I agree with you. His character even has all the exaggerated emotions of that stereotype. He stands up to Kylo at the end of TFA, so I guess that somewhat makes up for it.

I also think the obvious romantic tension between him and Rey would have been handled differently if he was white.

I want to know more about his experiences in the First Order and how it affected him. We've never really seen what it's like to be a commoner forced to serve the FO/Empire in a Star Wars movie.