Movies: Star Wars VIII The Last Jedi, for those who have seen it! (SPOILERS)

[Pilky01]

So many of the positive reviews seem to actually be reactions to anticipated negativity; which tells me the movie isn't actually good.

Just look at that Folding Ideas guy on YouTube. He LOVED the really dumb Poe/Hux prank call bit that started the whole movie not because it was actually funny, but because he thinks it's great to watch space Nazis get "dunked on" over and over. Regardless of what the interactions might mean for character or tone, he hates nazis therefore he liked that scene. "Oh you didn't think it was a good joke? I guess you just don't hate nazis as much as me"

Also, Kylo Ren is a space Nazi and they spent this whole movie pitching us on the idea that he isn't all that bad. So I guess some nazis are worth breaking the tension for a bad joke but other nazis deserve a more nuanced presentation?

This kind of virtue signalling as movie critique is really dumb but it is essentially what the field has become at this point.

 

[theotis77]

I've seen it twice now. I needed a couple days to process things. One thing I will say, this is not a mindless fluff action movie. It had some deeper themes and requires some afterthought. I think this is a big part of a lot of the "fan" backlash. This is not a movie that hands everything to you in a neat, friendly, wrapped package that you can walk away from cheering.

There's a consistent, running theme throughout the movie, covering all three main plot lines: Hubris and failure, and do you learn from failure or do you let it consume you.

Poe fails right in the first 5 minutes, his arrogance and hubris preventing him from seeing the bigger picture and costing the Resistance their entire bomber contingent, crippling their ability to fight back for the rest of the movie. He then doubles down on his arrogance, and nearly wipes the entire Resistance out - save around 40 people at the end. Out of 400.

Luke is consumed by his failure with Ben Solo. In response, he refuses to learn from it and just shuts himself down, arrogantly blaming everything about the Jedi. He's so crippled with guilt and fear over his failures, that he allows the dark side to rise.

Rey's hubris leads her to assume the vision of the future she saw was absolute truth, and that she could easily turn Kylo back to the light. She fails, and ends up strengthening the resolve of Kylo and making him more powerful.

Kylo has, perhaps, failed most of all. He failed his family, he failed his faith, he repeatedly fails his new master. In the end, it drives him to an even darker place.

By the end, Poe learns what leadership means, and becomes what the Resistance needs. Luke (with Yoda knocking some sense into him) comes to terms with his guilt and shame, and decides to confront his failure. He can't save the galaxy single-handedly (and I loved that they foreshadowed this at the beginning: "What, you think I'm going to run out there with a laser sword and defeat the entire First Order?"), but he can become a symbol of hope and resistance that the galaxy can latch on to. Kylo, on the other hand, learns the wrong lesson from his failures, still blaming everyone else, and doubles down on his anger and hatred.

Like I said, it's a deeper, more complex movie than we've seen in Star Wars before.

There were things I still didn't like about it. The Leia space scene, for one. It just looked cheesy, and I think there were much better ways to handle that. The entire movie was about 20 minutes too long. Some of the humor was forced, and I didn't care for some of the "anachronistic" dialog ("Chromedome", for one. Suddenly I'm thinking about Ninja Turtles).

Originally, I couldn't stand the Finn/Rose side quest because it seemed to have no effect on the overall plot in the end. I realized after the second viewing that's not entirely true; it's tied into Poe's repeated failures. Their "success" in getting a codebreaker on board - the plan that Poe approved of and even mutinied to see through - ultimately led to the Resistance taking 90% casualties. It also provides substantial character development for Finn, and for Poe. DJ was Finn's temptation. Not to go to the dark side, as he'd never go back to the First Order, but to not take a side at all. DJ's betrayal ultimately leads Finn to take a stand, not just for Rey, but for a greater cause. So, I was actually more okay with it the second time, though it could have been shorter.

I think this is a movie that is going to be looked upon more favorably by fans as time goes on.

 

[ImporterExporter]

These guys absolutely knock it out of the park.

 

[third man in]

I've seen it twice now. I needed a couple days to process things. One thing I will say, this is not a mindless fluff action movie. It had some deeper themes and requires some afterthought. I think this is a big part of a lot of the "fan" backlash. This is not a movie that hands everything to you in a neat, friendly, wrapped package that you can walk away from cheering.

There's a consistent, running theme throughout the movie, covering all three main plot lines: Hubris and failure, and do you learn from failure or do you let it consume you.

Poe fails right in the first 5 minutes, his arrogance and hubris preventing him from seeing the bigger picture and costing the Resistance their entire bomber contingent, crippling their ability to fight back for the rest of the movie. He then doubles down on his arrogance, and nearly wipes the entire Resistance out - save around 40 people at the end. Out of 400.

Luke is consumed by his failure with Ben Solo. In response, he refuses to learn from it and just shuts himself down, arrogantly blaming everything about the Jedi. He's so crippled with guilt and fear over his failures, that he allows the dark side to rise.

Rey's hubris leads her to assume the vision of the future she saw was absolute truth, and that she could easily turn Kylo back to the light. She fails, and ends up strengthening the resolve of Kylo and making him more powerful.

Kylo has, perhaps, failed most of all. He failed his family, he failed his faith, he repeatedly fails his new master. In the end, it drives him to an even darker place.

By the end, Poe learns what leadership means, and becomes what the Resistance needs. Luke (with Yoda knocking some sense into him) comes to terms with his guilt and shame, and decides to confront his failure. He can't save the galaxy single-handedly (and I loved that they foreshadowed this at the beginning: "What, you think I'm going to run out there with a laser sword and defeat the entire First Order?"), but he can become a symbol of hope and resistance that the galaxy can latch on to. Kylo, on the other hand, learns the wrong lesson from his failures, still blaming everyone else, and doubles down on his anger and hatred.

Like I said, it's a deeper, more complex movie than we've seen in Star Wars before.

There were things I still didn't like about it. The Leia space scene, for one. It just looked cheesy, and I think there were much better ways to handle that. The entire movie was about 20 minutes too long. Some of the humor was forced, and I didn't care for some of the "anachronistic" dialog ("Chromedome", for one. Suddenly I'm thinking about Ninja Turtles).

Originally, I couldn't stand the Finn/Rose side quest because it seemed to have no effect on the overall plot in the end. I realized after the second viewing that's not entirely true; it's tied into Poe's repeated failures. Their "success" in getting a codebreaker on board - the plan that Poe approved of and even mutinied to see through - ultimately led to the Resistance taking 90% casualties. It also provides substantial character development for Finn, and for Poe. DJ was Finn's temptation. Not to go to the dark side, as he'd never go back to the First Order, but to not take a side at all. DJ's betrayal ultimately leads Finn to take a stand, not just for Rey, but for a greater cause. So, I was actually more okay with it the second time, though it could have been shorter.

I think this is a movie that is going to be looked upon more favorably by fans as time goes on.

I don't know if you watch Rebels but that whole Finn/Rose adventure seemed very similar to rebels. The mission itself, looking closer into the planetary effects of the FO/empire, and the freeing of those animals. And like you said it had a huge payoff on Finns character development. He found a reason to fight and not just to save Rey. For a much bigger cause.

I heard Dave Filloni had some collaboration input and it shows IMO in a good way.

 

[OzzyFan]

Question. Is it just me or is Oscar Isaac the most charismatic performance in the movie by a gap? It's not everybody's fault though: I don't think any other actor would deliver a notably better performance than Adam Driver in his turn, nor would someone "replacing" Hamill or Gleeson in their roles. Arguably others fit here too.

Just came to me as I was thinking about the film.

 

[theotis77]

I don't know if you watch Rebels but that whole Finn/Rose adventure seemed very similar to rebels. The mission itself, looking closer into the planetary effects of the FO/empire, and the freeing of those animals. And like you said it had a huge payoff on Finns character development. He found a reason to fight and not just to save Rey. For a much bigger cause.

I heard Dave Filloni had some collaboration input and it shows IMO in a good way.

Yeah, I actually later appreciated it more as a look into a corner of galactic civilization that we hadn't seen before - the people enabling and profiting off of this constant war, and the downtrodden underneath them. It did have that Rebels "small picture" feel to it, peeking into a non-epic, small-scale section of the SW universe.

 

[tacogeoff]

Yeah, but you don’t like anything new

Believe it or not, I thought of you at some point while watching it. There was a scene, don’t remember which one, where there was a ton of space debris after something got destroyed and I thought “that guy on HF is going to think this is way too cluttered”

I'm truly honored.

The movie is cluttered, and I don't mean in a visual sense. It's very clumsy. I was expecting it to be mediocre, but it was just flat out bad.

There's many new things that I like, TLJ isn't one of them.

best exchange on this forum lol. had a good chuckle this morning. thank you.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

BTW, not a single person clapped in a full house last night. First time I've ever seen that at the end of a SW movie. The "experts" love this movie (hits all the progressive bullet points) but the fans far less so, for the many obvious reasons.

Nobody hates Stars Wars movies more than Star Wars fans.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I've seen it twice now. I needed a couple days to process things. One thing I will say, this is not a mindless fluff action movie. It had some deeper themes and requires some afterthought. I think this is a big part of a lot of the "fan" backlash. This is not a movie that hands everything to you in a neat, friendly, wrapped package that you can walk away from cheering.

There's a consistent, running theme throughout the movie, covering all three main plot lines: Hubris and failure, and do you learn from failure or do you let it consume you.

Poe fails right in the first 5 minutes, his arrogance and hubris preventing him from seeing the bigger picture and costing the Resistance their entire bomber contingent, crippling their ability to fight back for the rest of the movie. He then doubles down on his arrogance, and nearly wipes the entire Resistance out - save around 40 people at the end. Out of 400.

Luke is consumed by his failure with Ben Solo. In response, he refuses to learn from it and just shuts himself down, arrogantly blaming everything about the Jedi. He's so crippled with guilt and fear over his failures, that he allows the dark side to rise.

Rey's hubris leads her to assume the vision of the future she saw was absolute truth, and that she could easily turn Kylo back to the light. She fails, and ends up strengthening the resolve of Kylo and making him more powerful.

Kylo has, perhaps, failed most of all. He failed his family, he failed his faith, he repeatedly fails his new master. In the end, it drives him to an even darker place.

By the end, Poe learns what leadership means, and becomes what the Resistance needs. Luke (with Yoda knocking some sense into him) comes to terms with his guilt and shame, and decides to confront his failure. He can't save the galaxy single-handedly (and I loved that they foreshadowed this at the beginning: "What, you think I'm going to run out there with a laser sword and defeat the entire First Order?"), but he can become a symbol of hope and resistance that the galaxy can latch on to. Kylo, on the other hand, learns the wrong lesson from his failures, still blaming everyone else, and doubles down on his anger and hatred.

Like I said, it's a deeper, more complex movie than we've seen in Star Wars before.

There were things I still didn't like about it. The Leia space scene, for one. It just looked cheesy, and I think there were much better ways to handle that. The entire movie was about 20 minutes too long. Some of the humor was forced, and I didn't care for some of the "anachronistic" dialog ("Chromedome", for one. Suddenly I'm thinking about Ninja Turtles).

Originally, I couldn't stand the Finn/Rose side quest because it seemed to have no effect on the overall plot in the end. I realized after the second viewing that's not entirely true; it's tied into Poe's repeated failures. Their "success" in getting a codebreaker on board - the plan that Poe approved of and even mutinied to see through - ultimately led to the Resistance taking 90% casualties. It also provides substantial character development for Finn, and for Poe. DJ was Finn's temptation. Not to go to the dark side, as he'd never go back to the First Order, but to not take a side at all. DJ's betrayal ultimately leads Finn to take a stand, not just for Rey, but for a greater cause. So, I was actually more okay with it the second time, though it could have been shorter.

I think this is a movie that is going to be looked upon more favorably by fans as time goes on.

I agree with everything here. Well said.

 

[SidCity]

movie sucks. lets just move on. the story is terrible. they turned Luke into a p***y bitch. Why leave a map to be found if you're just going to Ach-To to die? Why build up Snoke only to be killed in the dumbest way ever? I could write a better story.

They should have had Luke come back, board the ship, and go beastmode in a duel against Snoke and Ren taking them on while saving Rey...and promising to complete her training. That's a boss-ass script.

Luke didn't end up teaching Rey anything so what was the point of her going to Luke....just a gigantic waste of time. He was just an ass to her the entire time and she just ended up leaving cuz she realized what a loser he had become.

They f***ing ruined the most legendary character in all of Star Wars.

 

[John Price]

Multiple people clapped throughout the movie at various points in time and again I wouldn't have been happy if they didn't clap.

Spoiler

Especially when Yoda showed up there was a lot of hooting and hollering

Spoiler

Did anyone else express concern at all the romance? I mean, Finn is in love with both Rey and Rose. That was one thing that was bugging me about the film. Maybe I Was just imagining things

 

[Tawnos]

movie sucks. lets just move on. the story is terrible. they turned Luke into a ***** *****. Why leave a map to be found if you're just going to Ach-To to die? Why build up Snoke only to be killed in the dumbest way ever? I could write a better story.

They should have had Luke come back, board the ship, and go beastmode in a duel against Snoke and Ren taking them on while saving Rey...and promising to complete her training. That's a boss-ass script.

Luke didn't end up teaching Rey anything so what was the point of her going to Luke....just a gigantic waste of time. He was just an ass to her the entire time and she just ended up leaving cuz she realized what a loser he had become.

They ****ing ruined the most legendary character in all of Star Wars.

You’ve spent a lot of time posting about something you consider a waste of time.

Also, you’re pretty transparent. What you wanted was the most predictable script ever. Total fan service and nothing else. You said so yourself in that post, just with different words

They made a better movie than that.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I saw the movie yesterday with my manager and he is a huge Star Wars fan. He loves it to no end and I have to say I was impressed by the visuals and the acting. The storyline was good, not great. This movie took a big leap and some risks moving away from the franchise blueprint.

People who complain this movie is too different are probably the same who complained TFA was too similar to the OT.

My only issue with the movie is the Leia-in-space scene. That was just a bit much. And I could have done without some of the new creatures. At times it feels they are just introducing new animals for the sake of making up new stuff.

 

[Jussi]

I've seen it twice now. I needed a couple days to process things. One thing I will say, this is not a mindless fluff action movie. It had some deeper themes and requires some afterthought. I think this is a big part of a lot of the "fan" backlash. This is not a movie that hands everything to you in a neat, friendly, wrapped package that you can walk away from cheering.

There's a consistent, running theme throughout the movie, covering all three main plot lines: Hubris and failure, and do you learn from failure or do you let it consume you.

Poe fails right in the first 5 minutes, his arrogance and hubris preventing him from seeing the bigger picture and costing the Resistance their entire bomber contingent, crippling their ability to fight back for the rest of the movie. He then doubles down on his arrogance, and nearly wipes the entire Resistance out - save around 40 people at the end. Out of 400.

Luke is consumed by his failure with Ben Solo. In response, he refuses to learn from it and just shuts himself down, arrogantly blaming everything about the Jedi. He's so crippled with guilt and fear over his failures, that he allows the dark side to rise.

Rey's hubris leads her to assume the vision of the future she saw was absolute truth, and that she could easily turn Kylo back to the light. She fails, and ends up strengthening the resolve of Kylo and making him more powerful.

Kylo has, perhaps, failed most of all. He failed his family, he failed his faith, he repeatedly fails his new master. In the end, it drives him to an even darker place.

By the end, Poe learns what leadership means, and becomes what the Resistance needs. Luke (with Yoda knocking some sense into him) comes to terms with his guilt and shame, and decides to confront his failure. He can't save the galaxy single-handedly (and I loved that they foreshadowed this at the beginning: "What, you think I'm going to run out there with a laser sword and defeat the entire First Order?"), but he can become a symbol of hope and resistance that the galaxy can latch on to. Kylo, on the other hand, learns the wrong lesson from his failures, still blaming everyone else, and doubles down on his anger and hatred.

Like I said, it's a deeper, more complex movie than we've seen in Star Wars before.

There were things I still didn't like about it. The Leia space scene, for one. It just looked cheesy, and I think there were much better ways to handle that. The entire movie was about 20 minutes too long. Some of the humor was forced, and I didn't care for some of the "anachronistic" dialog ("Chromedome", for one. Suddenly I'm thinking about Ninja Turtles).

Originally, I couldn't stand the Finn/Rose side quest because it seemed to have no effect on the overall plot in the end. I realized after the second viewing that's not entirely true; it's tied into Poe's repeated failures. Their "success" in getting a codebreaker on board - the plan that Poe approved of and even mutinied to see through - ultimately led to the Resistance taking 90% casualties. It also provides substantial character development for Finn, and for Poe. DJ was Finn's temptation. Not to go to the dark side, as he'd never go back to the First Order, but to not take a side at all. DJ's betrayal ultimately leads Finn to take a stand, not just for Rey, but for a greater cause. So, I was actually more okay with it the second time, though it could have been shorter.

I think this is a movie that is going to be looked upon more favorably by fans as time goes on.

I think you explained the hubris and failure and learning from them the best. I saw that theme myself as well. ALso agree that the Leia space scene could have been done better, if the intention was to show that Leia is strong in The Force even though she didn't train to be a Jedi. The whole Finn/Rose also could have been done better. Perhaps a scene or two could have been cut or shortened and some dialog added.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I can't imagine how people can be happy with the trash that Disney is feeding us.

Star Wars: Clone Wars
Star Wars: Rebels
and 3rd party short films like these

are the best that the Star Wars universe has to offer I'm afraid. Kind of sad and pathetic that cartoon animations are better than feature film productions backed by massive amount of money. Disgrace.

TCW was released well before Disney took over.

 

[TP]

Spoiler

Did anyone else express concern at all the romance? I mean, Finn is in love with both Rey and Rose. That was one thing that was bugging me about the film. Maybe I Was just imagining things

[/QUOTE]

She was in love with him.. I didn't sense him loving her. The whole thing is nonsense.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

I completely loved this movie. After feeling very meh about TFA, I'm finally caring about these characters and this new trilogy.

Some random thougths:
- I'm actually really happy that Snoke died like he did. He was always going to be a second hand version of Darth Sidious/the Emperor; I was mildly curious about where he came from but ultimately nothing was going to make him a better villain than Sidious. Now, Kylo Ren is different from the Emperor. He's what Vader could have been if he didn't lose his fight with Obi-Wan that left him crippled. Ironically, Ren only achieves that after he casts aside his fanboyish Vader impersonation quest. I'm looking forward to watching his villanous path.
-Speaking of Kylo Ren, I loved the movie almost breaking the fourth wall when Snoke calls him on his pathetic pretense of "being Vader" when he's just an emo!kid with a Vader-like mask. What followed was a great scene where Kylo Ren smashed the mask and "became evil as himself". Perfection.
- post #377 by theotis77 - would quote this word for word. Hubris, arrogance and failure is a constant theme in the movie - so many characters on both sides are guilty of it (Poe, Rey, Luke, Kylo Ren, Snoke,...). It's honestly refreshing to see Poe with his good intentions mess things up because he arrogantly decides to handle it all himself. Usually movies reward this sort of behaviour; here, he first loses them the bomber fleet and then almost gets them all killed when (surprise, surprise) the unreliable thief actually is an unreliable thief and betrays them for his own profit.
- I liked Luke's storyline. I mean, is it so hard to believe that maybe you start falling a bit for your own image of being this perfect infallible Jedi hero? And then he finds himself almost killing Ben Solo - an "innocent teenager" - because of fear, and by doing that, he becomes the final push that Snoke needed to turn Kylo Ren to the dark side. Which leads to most of his students being massacred and a new tyrrany rising in the galaxy... No wonder he's hiding on an island and seemingly gave up on the Jedi philosophy. And honestly why is he expected to save the world again? There's how many people billion in the galaxy - why aren't they doing anything?
- I didn't care for Rey in the previous movie. Here, it seemed like she finally developed as a character with personality and some real flaws. Good stuff.
- All the Force stuff. Astral projection (?), forging mind connections - sign me up! This mystical, philosophical side has always been part of the Star Wars magic. Very happy to have it back.
-Admiral Holdo(?) killing that ship. Gorgeous.
- There were one or two instances where it got a bit much, but overall I loved the humor of this movie. It didn't seem to take away from the darkness and gravity. Well done.

I didn't care for "Leia in space" and there were some plotholes, but overall it was great. After TFA I was barely looking forward to this one (luckily Rogue One sort of redeemed the new Star Wars for me); now I can't wait for Episode IX. Good movie.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I really liked the film. It was a bit cluttered at times, but I thought they did a good job of progressing the story from the first film of the trilogy and setting up for the third.

I do like the overarching theme of failure in the film, especially with how it ties in with Luke’s comments about the Jedi’s legacy being failure.

 

[Levie]

So after seeing the film last night my initial thought was that there were pretty interesting shots, but after a day of reflection holy shit that movie was an absolute mess.

 

[Zamuz]

Spoiler

Best part was when Laura Dern kamikazed in Snoke's ship.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

The film made 220M this weekend at Domestic Box Office (2nd highest in history behind Force Awakens) and added another 230M overseas (Without a release in China yet)

'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Delivers Second Largest Opening Ever - Box Office Mojo

Disney buying Star Wars franchise has got to be one of the most profitable moves in recent Hollywood history

 

[johnjm22]

There's too many side bits and "micro-twists / mini-storylines" going on in this movie.

Leia is dead! Oh, but wait she's not!
Purple hair lady is strong commander. No she's a moron. She's a bad guy?! Oh, but wait we were fooled she's a hero!
Kylo turned on Luke?! No actually Luke went after Kylo! Wong! It was just a misunderstanding?!
We gotta do this, and then we've got to do that, oh but wait we've got to do this first!
ect.
ect.
ect.
I could go on.

The excursion to the casino felt like something out of the prequels.

The movie was too long. A lot could have been cut out of it. I didn't like it at all for a variety of reasons, but if it was maybe 30-40 minutes shorter it would have been passable I think.

 

[PBandJ]

I love seeing Empire held up as this peak of filmmaking in this thread despite the fact that it got violently shit all over when it came out.

 

[Merya]

you mention KOTOR but then post a SWTOR video? SHAME

Why? Same franchise, same developer. Or is it just the MMORG aspect?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I love seeing Empire held up as this peak of filmmaking in this thread despite the fact that it got violently **** all over when it came out.

And when TPM came out, everyone was excited, saying it was so good.