Star Wars Battlefront II (Nov 17)

KingBran

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Apr 24, 2014
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And now it's not...



The reviews, backlash, and objectively lower sales would suggest that not many people are enjoying it all that much
Again.. READING!

Its like you read the first line of what I say and go off on some crazy tangent. Completly pointless to respond to you anymore in this thread. You are acting like you got me at something but if you read what I said I clearly explained that its not 2nd now, but it was. You just feel some need to "Rah Rah" and quote (only part) of what I say and say what I already explained because....?

Some reviewers like it, some don't *gasp*! Opinions! :laugh:

I and many other people I know are having a blast with it. But that seems to upset you. Too bad, so sad. Grow up. Maybe take up knitting or something. You might need a break from the internet.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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They're right about the undercharged part when we consider how expensive games were in the 1990s (basically the same as they are now, at least in the United States). The stagnation of base prices definitely plays a roll in the push for microtransactions and online focus, as with blockbuster movie-esque marketing budgets, these post-release transactions could be the difference between huge profit and a big loss.

It isn't true.

The market is much, much larger
The games publishers are coalescing around are much, much less riskier
Margins have gone way, way up on things like digital

Cost of development as a % share of expected revenue has gone way down. The MTs are simply a means of further reducing risk and/or adding more profit.
 

Dolemite

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New patch is out and fixes one of my biggest conplaints about the game

Star Wars Battlefront II – Release Notes - Patch 0.2

  • Reduced the spawn wave timer on Strike from 10 to 5 seconds.
However, people are reporting that they can’t log in after the patch and some have lost progression.


It is people like this and whales that let EA and other companies get away with this crap to milk gamers dry.

Yet people have zero problems with games on phone platforms. (Rolls eyes)

I can’t determine if people who are complaining now are just cheapskates (there’s tons on the FB groups) or just need to get with the times. Not everyone has hours upon hours to play the game and really don’t have the time to spend what little hours they have to play the game on getting their ass kicked by someone who logged hundreds of hours in the game. This evens the field out.
 

542365

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New patch is out and fixes one of my biggest conplaints about the game

Star Wars Battlefront II – Release Notes - Patch 0.2

  • Reduced the spawn wave timer on Strike from 10 to 5 seconds.
However, people are reporting that they can’t log in after the patch and some have lost progression.




Yet people have zero problems with games on phone platforms. (Rolls eyes)

I can’t determine if people who are complaining now are just cheapskates (there’s tons on the FB groups) or just need to get with the times. Not everyone has hours upon hours to play the game and really don’t have the time to spend what little hours they have to play the game on getting their ass kicked by someone who logged hundreds of hours in the game. This evens the field out.

First, the bolded simply isn't true. Plenty of people have a problem with the way mobile games operate, but at least mobile games are typically free or very cheap(like $5) and then they use these practices to earn some money. If Battlefront 2 was free this controversy wouldn't exist, or wouldn't be nearly as bad. People accept microtransactions in free games because they need to make money somehow. If you're charging full price for a game, and then monetizing it like it's a free to play game, that's the issue. It was a terrible decision and I'm glad the gaming community as a whole stood against it.

It also doesn't even the field out at all. There are people who don't have the TIME or the MONEY to invest to compete. What about them? What are they supposed to do when they come up against someone who has both the time and the money? They're just SOL? Their $60 isn't enough to have a fair chance? That's a pretty shitty business practice. I'm thrilled they admitted their practice is shit and paused it for the time being, but they'll just flip it back on after the holidays. It's clear as day.
 

Dolemite

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First, the bolded simply isn't true. Plenty of people have a problem with the way mobile games operate, but at least mobile games are typically free or very cheap(like $5) and then they use these practices to earn some money. If Battlefront 2 was free this controversy wouldn't exist, or wouldn't be nearly as bad. People accept microtransactions in free games because they need to make money somehow. If you're charging full price for a game, and then monetizing it like it's a free to play game, that's the issue. It was a terrible decision and I'm glad the gaming community as a whole stood against it.

It also doesn't even the field out at all. There are people who don't have the TIME or the MONEY to invest to compete. What about them? What are they supposed to do when they come up against someone who has both the time and the money? They're just SOL? Their $60 isn't enough to have a fair chance? That's a pretty ****ty business practice. I'm thrilled they admitted their practice is **** and paused it for the time being, but they'll just flip it back on after the holidays. It's clear as day.
No mobile game had the fan pushback like this game did.
 

542365

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No mobile game had the fan pushback like this game did.
How many mobile games are $60 and still have the same level of microtransactions as if they were free to play? THAT'S the issue. Charging full price but still monetizing it as though it was free(or reduced price).
 

Dolemite

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How many mobile games are $60 and still have the same level of microtransactions as if they were free to play? THAT'S the issue. Charging full price but still monetizing it as though it was free(or reduced price).

There’s tons of mobile games where people spent much, much, much more than what someone could spend on this game.
 

SolidSnakeUS

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But that's because it's a free to play game... that's the point of a F2P game. I know people that have spent hundreds on something like Brave Exvius, but they are constantly playing it on their phone, something they always have on them and it always has content updates. I've probably spent $300 ish on Warframe and that's free to play, but the glory of that game is, even though it's free to play, you can literally earn everything without paying for microtransactions. The fact that you can pick up a free to play game, which is brilliantly made by the way, and get all the content without spending a single dime is the ideal way of doing F2P. The way that EA is doing it with BF2 is extremely predatory and almost forcing you to pay for microtransactions with the way their parts, cards and progression system actually worked.

Oh, as a side thing, I put that much into Warframe and I have about 700 hours in the game. Good luck finding anyone remotely playing either Battlefront game with that many hours.
 

542365

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There’s tons of mobile games where people spent much, much, much more than what someone could spend on this game.
Right, and like I said if this was a free to play game there wouldn't be a controversy(or nearly as much of one). People would be disappointed that they took a beloved franchise like Star Wars and took it down this microtransaction heavy path, and there would definitely be a vocal outcry about it, but not nearly to this extent because that's what's expected in a free to play game. In a $60 game, many people don't accept(nor should they) pay to win elements like were seen in this game. This is the culmination of all of the angst the community has with all of these microtransactions in every AAA game because they took it even a step further in this game and made it a core element of the progression system. The proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" so to speak.
 
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Blitzkrug

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
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EA just goofed majorly.

New patch rolled out (1.03) and though it may be a glitch, literally everyone had their collection progress reset (all heroes, cards, etc are locked up again) and you can no longer earn credits.

Hoo boy...
 

SolidSnakeUS

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If you want to go full microtransactions, make the game F2P. The fact that they make you pay money up front for what is essentially a glorified F2P mobile game with hardcore microtransactions.

EA just goofed majorly.

New patch rolled out (1.03) and though it may be a glitch, literally everyone had their collection progress reset (all heroes, cards, etc are locked up again) and you can no longer earn credits.

Hoo boy...

Holy shit that's amazing. If this is true, image the people that paid money then for microtransactions. Not only is it pissing off people who played the game to earn things, it's now f***ing with people who actually paid for things. Everyone loses. I f***ing love it EA.
 

Blitzkrug

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Sep 17, 2013
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can confirm. I lost all of my heroes, what little starfighter cards i had are gone but i can still earn credits and my assault class seems in tact.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
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First, the bolded simply isn't true. Plenty of people have a problem with the way mobile games operate, but at least mobile games are typically free or very cheap(like $5) and then they use these practices to earn some money. If Battlefront 2 was free this controversy wouldn't exist, or wouldn't be nearly as bad. People accept microtransactions in free games because they need to make money somehow. If you're charging full price for a game, and then monetizing it like it's a free to play game, that's the issue. It was a terrible decision and I'm glad the gaming community as a whole stood against it.

It also doesn't even the field out at all. There are people who don't have the TIME or the MONEY to invest to compete. What about them? What are they supposed to do when they come up against someone who has both the time and the money? They're just SOL? Their $60 isn't enough to have a fair chance? That's a pretty ****ty business practice. I'm thrilled they admitted their practice is **** and paused it for the time being, but they'll just flip it back on after the holidays. It's clear as day.
The problem with this though is that even without paying extra to buff your dude the game is still a legit $60 title upon release. Yes, the campaign is about an hour shorter than most FPS games however the massive arcade and online is more than a lot of FPS games. Just like a lot of other FPS games you can unlock things to make your classes better. The biggest problem with this game is it's so random and you cannot work towards a certain unlock (aside from collecting scrap) and you will end up with a bunch of useless buffs you may never use. Or you (before the lockout) could pay real money to unlock stuff.

The biggest thing though is that during the trial nobody was actually complaining about other players being OP or anything like that. It was just a bunch of internet hero's on forums whining like kids about a game they claim they will never buy and therefore have no experience with. Since the game has been released and people cannot pay real money to buff their guy you now HAVE to spend lots of hours with the game to buff your guys. All that said, there still is no seriously OP combo out there that people cannot handle. I have yet to play a game where one dude is just tearing everyone up with lots of high level star cards. In fact, I have killed many guys with high level star cards. People think it's just pay and you win lots of games. It's not.

The progression system in this game is stupid. It's horrible and I don't like it. However how it really affects online play is completely overblown.
 

542365

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Soooo....that's like straight up illegal, right? They can't just lock stuff people paid money for even if they decided to change the system. That has to be a glitch. No chance they will keep it that way.
 

KingBran

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Apr 24, 2014
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EA just goofed majorly.

New patch rolled out (1.03) and though it may be a glitch, literally everyone had their collection progress reset (all heroes, cards, etc are locked up again) and you can no longer earn credits.

Hoo boy...
Just logged in to check. All my stuff is still there.
 

542365

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The problem with this though is that even without paying extra to buff your dude the game is still a legit $60 title upon release. Yes, the campaign is about an hour shorter than most FPS games however the massive arcade and online is more than a lot of FPS games. Just like a lot of other FPS games you can unlock things to make your classes better. The biggest problem with this game is it's so random and you cannot work towards a certain unlock (aside from collecting scrap) and you will end up with a bunch of useless buffs you may never use. Or you (before the lockout) could pay real money to unlock stuff.

The biggest thing though is that during the trial nobody was actually complaining about other players being OP or anything like that. It was just a bunch of internet hero's on forums whining like kids about a game they claim they will never buy and therefore have no experience with. Since the game has been released and people cannot pay real money to buff their guy you now HAVE to spend lots of hours with the game to buff your guys. All that said, there still is no seriously OP combo out there that people cannot handle. I have yet to play a game where one dude is just tearing everyone up with lots of high level star cards. In fact, I have killed many guys with high level star cards. People think it's just pay and you win lots of games. It's not.

The progression system in this game is stupid. It's horrible and I don't like it. However how it really affects online play is completely overblown.

Then stop f***ing enabling the practice by defending it and blatantly lying about it.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
Then stop ****ing enabling the practice by defending it and blatantly lying about it.
Never once have I defended the progression system or micro-transactions. Nor have I lied about any of my experiences with the game.
 

Blitzkrug

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
25,785
7,633
Winnipeg
Apparently it was just a bug. It was fixed a little while ago.

A hard reset just before i left for class confirms that all my stuff is back.

I'd still like to know what exactly they patched, because good ol error code 327 is still there and everything else looks unchanged.
 

Bjorn Le

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May 17, 2010
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It isn't true.

The market is much, much larger
The games publishers are coalescing around are much, much less riskier
Margins have gone way, way up on things like digital

Cost of development as a % share of expected revenue has gone way down. The MTs are simply a means of further reducing risk and/or adding more profit.

Just because the market is larger doesn't mean prices don't stagnate. Smartphones haven't stayed the same price despite a massively increasing market, for example. At the same time the market has increased, competition has also skyrocketed, and sales figures are much more sensitive to market volatility than before. Not to mention it costs a hell of a lot more to develop a game than it did 20 years ago (just about every position at a company that develops software has seen an income increase much higher than the national average). Companies have to find ways to make money outside the initial sale. Now, there's a bad way of doing this, and a good way of doing this, but when you have games that won't even break even if they sell 5 million copies, you have very strong push factors for creating after the fact costs.

You're assuming the costs of developing games has stayed the same, when it hasn't at all. In the early 2000s, a AAA game might have been made by a dev team of around 10-11, with support staff in admin, QA, etc. adding a few more dozen to that number. Today, a major AAA game might have 100+ developers, with hundreds more support staff, and a full marketing team at the publisher. Those costs are exponentially higher, pushing the base break even point for a game into the millions of copies for a major title. And most games don't meet those numbers even with such a huge market because there is also an exponentially more competitive environment.
 
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XX

Waiting for Ishbia
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You're assuming the costs of developing games has stayed the same, when it hasn't at all. In the early 2000s, a AAA game might have been made by a dev team of around 10-11, with support staff in admin, QA, etc. adding a few more dozen to that number. Today, a major AAA game might have 100+ developers, with hundreds more support staff, and a full marketing team at the publisher. Those costs are exponentially higher, pushing the base break even point for a game into the millions of copies for a major title. And most games don't meet those numbers even with such a huge market because there is also an exponentially more competitive environment.

As a percentage of potential revenue, costs have gone down.

It doesn't matter if per team costs have tripled. If your potential revenue/expected sales have outpaced that, your costs have actually gone down per unit. The only thing that went up is your risk. If you miss by a wide margin now, it will hurt more.

Companies are not shoveling more money into the fire for a lesser reward. They are releasing fewer risky games and shooting for games now that can turn a good profit, even if they come in under sales expectations, via microtransactions. They are making 15% more per digital sale, even on platforms they don't own, which is a massive chunk of change spread over millions of copies. They make 45% more if they own the platform like Origin. The large publishers are doing very, very well.

The narrative that they need these MTs to survive is false. They certainly don't need greedy ass monetization models like the one attempted with BF2.
 

Bjorn Le

Hobocop
May 17, 2010
19,592
609
Martinaise, Revachol
As a percentage of potential revenue, costs have gone down.

It doesn't matter if per team costs have tripled. If your potential revenue/expected sales have outpaced that, your costs have actually gone down per unit. The only thing that went up is your risk. If you miss by a wide margin now, it will hurt more.

Companies are not shoveling more money into the fire for a lesser reward. They are releasing fewer risky games and shooting for games now that can turn a good profit, even if they come in under sales expectations, via microtransactions. They are making 15% more per digital sale, even on platforms they don't own, which is a massive chunk of change spread over millions of copies. They make 45% more if they own the platform like Origin. The large publishers are doing very, very well.

The narrative that they need these MTs to survive is false. They certainly don't need greedy ass monetization models like the one attempted with BF2.

People keep saying this but I've never seen any proof, and it's directly contradicted by just about every developer whose talked about it. The problem isn't something you can boil down to "development costs have tripled, but the market has increased by five times, ergo costs have gone down." It doesn't work like that. We have a few facts. Costs have skyrocketed, in all dimensions of making games. The market has also expanded significant, in all genres and at all levels. The problem is costs cannot be calculated on a linear level, and markets are different in every genre and at every level. At the same time as it is much easier to make a lot of money, it is also much more difficult in different ways and much riskier. As a result you're not really defining costs properly. What's important is how much you have to sell to break even, and that number is much much higher than it used to be. While the market has increased, the value brought back by each sale is proportionally less than it used to be, because of inflation and higher costs. A game like Battlefront (2015) probably cost in the 150-200,000,000 to make when all costs are calculated (Star Wars license, development, marketing, testing, production), and EA defined a success to be 13 million copies. Even today, that is an astronomical amount of copies, and with the lukewarm reception of the game EA must have been very worried that the second would be a similar success. If you do not raise the price of games, you need recourse and additional sources of revenue.

I don't think you're wrong, I think you're just defining some of the concepts improperly. Risk is the most important factor here, because although the "reward" for a success is much bigger than it used to be, the risk is equally larger. The stagnation of prices has a lot to do with them, as if games have followed inflation, the amount a game would have to sell to be a financial success would be a lot less. The problem is now that games haven't had incremental increases, so raising the prices now is very difficult.

Developers don't need microtransactions to survive at all. But they are made more prolific by the costs in the industry.
 

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