Stanley Cup a challenge cup?

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Crosbyfan, Dec 5, 2004.

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  1. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Check out freestanley.com

    A group in Edmonton think that, if the NHL has no season, the CUP should be open to challengers in the spirit of the original deed of gift.
     
  2. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    Good luck with that.

    Besides, that's not really a Business of Hockey issue.
     
  3. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    I wasn't sure. Where would it best be posted?
     
  4. Lard_Lad

    Lard_Lad Registered User

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    The site doesn't really seem that serious, and it's a little shady that they're accepting donations. If they really want to "free" the cup, they should be trying to dig up the terms of the original cup trusteeship, and see if there's any legal way of getting it away from the current NHL-appointed trustees. Just proposing some fantasy tournament and having a poll on who the new trustees should be isn't going to accomplish anything.
     
  5. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    I was under the impression that the best club in Canada (now North America) won it.

    Best club in NA? AHL club should get it this year IMHO (barring the NHL resuming). So some lucky AHLers should be getting their names on it this year and preparing space on their fingers for their Stanley Cup Ring.

    I'd find it amusing to watch some scrub parade a Stanley Cup ring in front of ringless Pronger.


     
  6. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    I thought this might be moved to the NHL forum, but so be it.

    The Stanley Cup is mothballed. Ain't going anywhere. The NHL owns it outright.

    If this "group" wants to ante up for a "Dominion Challenge Trophy" then by all means let's see it.

    Good luck lining up contesting teams, though.

    The whole idea, while well-meaning, is a joke.
     
  7. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    The "America's Cup" is an older trophy than the Stanley Cup and New Zealand challenged for it under an obscure part of the "deed of gift". The American's were forced to defend that particular challenge by the courts.

    I don't see how the NHL owns it outright (possibly the base/design). It could be considered public domain in Canada; possibly North America as US challenges were accepted prior to the NHL's existence. If the NHL wants to "mothball" the Cup for a year that could be a breach of trust. The fans/public have made it what it is as much as the NHL has, probably more.
     
  8. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    Well, the originators of the afforementioned website are quoted in the Edmonton Sun admitting their gambit is a bit of a lark and that they lack the financial werewithall to mount a serious legal challenge.

    Dead in the water before it even launches, methinks.
     
  9. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    Not true. But then you don't seem to be one who gives two hoots about facts.
     
  10. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    The Trustees are controlled by the NHL.
     
  11. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    No they aren't. Courtesy of legendsofhockey.net, "When one trustee chooses to resign or is in need of replacement, the remaining trustee nominates a substitute. The trustees have absolute power over all matters regarding the Stanley Cup."

    That would seem to suggest to me that the NHL doesn't control the nominees.
     
  12. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    Who pays the majority of the bills for the Hockey Hall of Fame?
     
  13. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    I have no idea. Why don't you do some research for once on here instead of filling space with ignorant posts devoid of substance? Even if the NHL does pay the bills, it has no impact on the power of the trustees to appoint who they want.
     
  14. Lard_Lad

    Lard_Lad Registered User

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    In theory. But not when the trustees are Brian O'Neill (former NHL VP) and Scotty Morrison (former NHL referee-in-chief and current HoF chairman). The likelihood of those two turning on the NHL and biting the hand that feeds them is about the same as that of Bob Goodenow announcing he's quitting the NHLPA to make a comeback as a replacement player next season.

    (Literally speaking, though, BR is wrong: if the NHL ever came out and announced they owned the cup outright, that could really backfire on them as the trustees probably don't have the ability to transfer ownership to the league. But I'm not sure of the exact consequences - whether it'd mean a court could or would remove O'Neill and Morrison as trustees and appoint new ones, or simply invalidate the trust and give the Cup back to Lord Stanley's successor to do with as he sees fit.)
     
  15. Fish on The Sand

    Fish on The Sand Untouchable

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    ummm, there are plenty of scrubs with rings while Pronger doesn't have one.
     
  16. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    The trustees are bound by any conditions that may have been set out in the trust. I don't know what they are either. I'm sure BR will tell us how it works though, and give us a tour through the various legalities.
     
  17. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    Possession is 9/10ths of the law. The NHL has had exclusive domain over the use of the Stanley Cup for almost 80 years. Not even Lord Stanley's heirs can challenge that (not that they would want to).

    Three imbeciles in Edmonton aren't going to change that.
     
  18. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    Thanks for sharing that bit of insight.
     
  19. ti-vite

    ti-vite Registered User

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    I can't help but imagine what Lonny Bohonos would be thinking with Lord Stanley at the end of his arms...

    :win:
     
  20. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    hehe. Lonny and Corry Hirsh can take it on a tour to Pronger's place and follow him around for the day.
     
  21. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    In 1947, the NHL assumed exclusive control of the Stanley Cup, under the stipulation that the NHL determine the condition of Challenge.

    - Calgary Sun, April 3, 1996
     
  22. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    Given your immense problem at providing correct facts, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't ask for a link.
     
  23. EventHorizon

    EventHorizon Bring Back Ties!

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    Here's an interesting article in which the very subject of ownership of the Stanley Cup is discussed.

    I find this part most interesting:

    "In 1947 there was a formal agreement between the trustees whereby the league was delegated the full authority ... making the Stanley Cup a competition for NHL teams," points out Gary Meagher, the NHL vice-president of public relations. He's right. You can check it in Total Hockey, 2nd Edition. Page 355. But wait...! The text goes on: "the agreement shall remain in force so long as the league continues to be the world's leading professional hockey league as determined by it's playing calibre, and in the event of dissolution or other termination of the National Hockey League, the Stanley Cup shall revert to the custody of the trustees."

    No season should mean that the NHL is no longer the world's leading professional hockey league, correct?
     
  24. mudcrutch79

    mudcrutch79 Registered User

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    Wow BR. Five whole minutes before someone wandered in and discredited your claim. That's impressive.
     
  25. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    No, because the NHL has not dissolved or terminated itself. They are merely on hiatus.

    And because the trustees are essentially controlled by the league, the question is moot.

    The writer even admits his folly.
     
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