Staal = over-rated IMO

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by hawksfan50, Jan 23, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,533
    Likes Received:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    156
    It looks to be like they are giving Jordan Staal way too much credit for his genes--but I just do not see the same level of excellence that I saw when Eric and Mark were in their draft years...IF Jordan Staal is trop ten material then this year's draft really STINKS!


    I watched Jordan Staal at the TPG --and yes he scored a goal--but it was a gift tap -in resulting from a Team Cherry terrible line change creating a 5x2 situation and the Cherry goalie was pulled wy out of position --all Staal had to do was tap it into a gaping empty net_i could have scored that one...worse he got a severe lesson on face0ffs from Ben Maxwell who won virtally all of them vs. Staal--and Maxwell shut down Staal easily in the mano a mano as their lines faced each other until about mid-way in the 3rd period when they switched Mueler's line on Staal's--Staal played a bit better --but so did Mueller--both looked like crap to me...


    OK --ONE bad game does not a reputation destroy...so I watched staall vs. Ottawa on Friday nightin the 67;s 5-0 win over the Petes--again Staal did ZERO to impress me...nada...

    OK so he had 2 poor games...so i went back over his last 7 games in the stats just to see why anyone would rank him so high ..lo and behold he has scored just 1 goal =that "gift" in the TPG --in the regular OHL games vs. supposedly less talent all he could manage in these 6 games was 0goals and 2 assists...

    THIS IS NOT IMPRESSING ME AS WORTHY OF A TOP TEN PERFORMER for the '06 draft!


    Is there an injury or sickness that he has? I just do not see that he has the hockey sense and terrific wrist shot that brother Eric has ---I don't see his skating as that great either...I know he one an around the rink time in the TPG skills competition--but in real games he doesn't look like he is more that average in skating...I just don't see it for him!
     
  2. Anthony Mauro

    Anthony Mauro DraftBuzz Hockey

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,859
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Home Page:
    This is just a repeat post, of blah blah blah. So you saw one game and were influenced just by that.

    Maybe you should get seasons and pay attention more closely. Staal is 6'4.5, still growing into his body. He has the ability to score any type of goal, bang in garbage goals, convert one timers, roll out of the corner and rip em, and top shelf breakaways. Surely you must have missed all those. In my eyes, a guy that big with so much talent should not be expected to be fully matured and consistent as he's pretty young too. Real talent evaluators, guys that do this for a living do not scout fully on the here and now. The two games you saw, were just the foundation of what they envision him to be years later. Poor skating now, better skating in a year, and things will progress. Now if you don't think Staal can turn it up years post draft and won't make it to the NHL then that's legitimate. But the Staal genes make me think otherwise. The guy has amazing hand eye coordination, I won't even say for his size it is that good.

    As for his shot compared to his brother's, you have to realize Eric didn't have the shot he's got now. He's obviously gotten stronger with time. Jordan does have the hockey sense, and he's very good defensively being on the PK.

    All your saying is he hasn't produced the three games you saw him and that is not the way to evaluate a player.
     
  3. usiel

    usiel Aegrescit medendo Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    10,861
    Likes Received:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    musician/ts
    Location:
    Klendathu
    Home Page:
    Seems to me people just pick their favorite prospects at the top end and bash others, IMO. It is like picking your favorite team, heh.
     
  4. Wally112pac

    Wally112pac Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Home Page:
    hf50 you always pick 1 player you don't like and do these similar threads throughout their draft year.

    In 05 you put down Skille and wanted Kopitar.
    In 04 you put down Barker and wanted Radulov.

    This year you're puttin down Staal and pumpin up Backstrom.
     
  5. Amadeus

    Amadeus Stand Witness

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    19,909
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Toronto
    I have nothing but good things to say about Staal.

    But i wil pick Backstrom ahead of him :)
     
  6. WADEugottaBELAKthat

    WADEugottaBELAKthat Flynt Flossy

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Did I mention that..
    What are you talking about? The original poster was up-front about his view being based on a small sample size. That's what this board needs more of - - people who tell you how much they've seen of someone they talk about. All too often there are people who spout out info verbatim from every damn band-wagon jumping publication around as if its the gospel truth. Listen to your drivel, Balej's Dance. You are going blah blah blah about "the Stall Genes" while trashing this guy for making an opinion on actually having watched the guy. Get season's tickets? You are a joke.
     
  7. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    20,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Space Goat
    Location:
    Four Winds Bar
    Personally, I can easily understand why some people would think Staal isn't worthy of a top-10 pick. He can underwhelm at times. But I would have said pretty much the same thing about Marc too. The key with Jordan is also in what scouts perceive to be his ability to continue improving. And while genes come into that, it's not just that. He does have tools that he doesn't seem to always show, is still growing, still gaining confidence in using his body. Plus he's right at the youngest edge of the draft cutoff. So yeah, I think if you look right at the snapshot of the moment, especially in only a short sample of games seen on TV, it's VERY EASY to imagine that you'd bump Staal down a bit. By contrast, you can watch other bigger forwards, like Sheppard say, and I find he typically does more to catch my eye in a game than Staal does. On average. But the projections aren't the same.

    Fair opinion, though.
     
  8. The_Eck

    The_Eck Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    engineering
    Location:
    Montreal
    Jared will be the best of the Staals, mark my words.
     
  9. Anthony Mauro

    Anthony Mauro DraftBuzz Hockey

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,859
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Home Page:
    Actually, if you've seen some of my posts I do not bandwagon jump publication. For instance, Kessel is 4th and that seems like it would get me roasted for dropping him like that. Do you have anything useful to say about Staal?
     
  10. Hiishawk

    Hiishawk Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1,225
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Out there somewhere
    Home Page:
    Staal's weakness is that he doesn't put his imprint upon the game as much as one would like. It's as if he doesn't realize his own strength and skill set- he seems to hold himself back. He teases. But beneath that there are more than hints of all world-class skills, body and brain with Staal. It is true that he can underwhelm at times but I still see that scary package of skill and power lurking beneath the surface. Once he learns that he CAN dominate games, once he has that confidence instilled (he's a young 17, remember) I think we'll see the top 5 pick in him shine.

    I'm a believer.
     
  11. TheDamned

    TheDamned "Only in Montréal"

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2005
    Messages:
    9,299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    54
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Montréal
    well i just saw him tonight vs montreal and he had 1 goal and 2 assists.. he played very solid.
     
  12. Spetzky

    Spetzky Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Dishwasher
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Montreal? doesn't Staalsie play in the O
     
  13. Rookie Chargers

    Rookie Chargers Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,750
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Quebec
    :biglaugh: Thread is not about Eric The Red. ;)
     
  14. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,014
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Home Page:
    The main point made I'd like to point hit on as well, is the respective ages of Jordon v Eric when they were drafted. Jordon is born September 10th. If he'd been born a week later, he wouldn't be eligible until next year (and a candidate for 1st overall in that draft).

    Eric was born late October, so if he had been born 6 weeks earlier, he would have been drafted in 2002, a year he showed similar production to what his brother is showing this year. He would have been hard pressed to be top 5 that year (v Nash, Lehtonen, JayBo, Pitkanen).

    Eric was basically a year older and in his 3rd OHL season when drafted, where as Jordon is only in his 2nd year. So comparing them in their draft years is unfair - you need to remember back to how raw Eric was a year earlier when he was a skinnier point-a-game OHLer. In comparing both in their 2nd year, Jordon has already almost scored as many goals (21) as Eric did in his entire 2nd year (23), while Eric was seemingly a better playmaker.

    I think most scouts look at this way and think that if Jordon just ends up as 75% the player Eric has become already, then he is top 5. If they think he is as good as Eric, then he might be at the top of their list. Personally, I think he is one of the safer picks in this draft.

    I realize you can't lean on the age factor too much, but it is significant.
     
  15. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    109,360
    Likes Received:
    6,246
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Corporate Drone
    Location:
    NJ/NYC
    Rangers need Staal. And then we can take Jared a few drafts down the road. And Eric as a UFA.
     
  16. Kritty

    Kritty Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,921
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Being in Montreal I would wonder how much you've watched him to be able to make that sort of statement. He is miles behind the other 3 in terms of talent and potential. He is a nice player right now, but he isn't even dominating bantams, elite players tend to do that. This was covered in another thread already. He'll have an OHL career based on his name and "potential" because of that name. I don't see him being much of an NHL player at this point. Granted, he could develop significantly, but he would definitely have to do that because he just isn't in the same league as the others.
     
  17. Ryan Van Horne

    Ryan Van Horne aka Scribe

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Freelance journalist
    Location:
    Halifax
    Home Page:
    The Staals

    I remember a couple of years ago when Jordan Staal was playing in bantam. Some people were saying he wasn't very good and that he was overrated because of his brother's name. Well, Peterborough took a chance and Jordan has turned out to be a great junior player because he's continued to develop. They saw some potential in lanky bantam player with good skill. He filled out and got more comfortable with his body and if he keeps developing like Eric did between 18 and 20 -- watch out.

    Now, people are saying the same thing about Jared. Now I have never seen Jared Staal play, but I do know that he's six-foot-five and weighs 171 pounds. I can't think of too many hockey players at the age of 15 -- and that are that tall and skinny -- who look great. It's darn near impossible to look great when you're that young and gangly. However, I have seen his stats with the Thunder Bay bantams, and while he's not the team's leading scorer, he was producing at a pretty fair clip last time I checked. It's true Jared is probably getting a closer look because of his name. He's not unlike Benoit Pouliot at the same age. Pouliot was a tall skinny kid, but he was drafted in like the 11th round of the OHL draft by Sudbury and he turned out to a great player. I'll go out on a limb and say Jared Staal could be a pretty good NHLer when he's 22.
     
  18. no Gino

    no Gino Registered User

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was speaking to Jared's coach with the Kings last week. He is the one coach to have coached all 4 brothers. The way he explained Jared to me was this. Jared is 6'31/2" at 15 years old. He has grown 21/2 inches this year. He is very shy and is constantly being asked for interviews to talk about the family. He said the pressure being put on him is huge, with some still saying he's going to be the best of the bunch. He said Jared will go in the first round of the OHL draft, but doesn't think he'll be a first round NHLer. He does think he will play in the NHL eventually, just doesn't think he will be at the same stage as the brother when he becomes draft eligible,
     
  19. Brock

    Brock Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    10,796
    Likes Received:
    296
    Trophy Points:
    199
    Location:
    The GTA
    Home Page:
    It's all the perception of what he could be. A recent example I can think of is Jeff Carter. In his draft year there was a ton of skepticism surrounding Carter because he had the "tools" but had yet to put it together. He was a big, gangly kid, who got criticized for being very inconsistent. Look at the way he has put it together. However, for every example like Carter, you have your Mike Rupp's (who still despite being possibly the most hated prospect in the history of these boards has seemingly carved out an NHL career).
     
  20. This is proof that there are too many Staals.
     
  21. badrobot101

    badrobot101 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Anyone else think there should be a moratorium on discussing Jared Staal's future until he at least plays in the OHL? Let's give him a chance to play hockey and grow up as somebody normal-ish.

    As for Jordan, I saw him play once and the main thing that I noticed was how huge he looked compared to everybody else. He played a solid game, but was outshone by others on the Petes. If I were the Leafs GM, and he fell to me in the #15-20 range, I'd be thrilled.
     
  22. Spetzky

    Spetzky Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Dishwasher
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Imagine 15-20 years ago.

    Sutter to Sutter, Poke checked away by Sutter dishes to Sutter... Sutter Scores!!!
     
  23. Entrancemperium

    Entrancemperium Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    81
    naaaaahh the rangers need Peter Mueller, come on Glen do whatever you can to move up and grab this guy
     
  24. Rahan

    Rahan Registered User

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Chicoutimi
    Home Page:
    Just remember that when Jordan was drafted in the OHL, some scouts were saying the Petes made a mistake taking him in the first round.. So, let's just wait and see about Jared, although I admit his stats are not impressive right now.
     
  25. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,533
    Likes Received:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    156
    The point raised by Dr. Sens that Jordan is almost a year younger than Eric was in his draft year is something I had not considered...maybe he is correct and the Staal genes will eventually kick in and Jordan will improve a lot next year and then dominate after that..however right now I still say there is a difference in style and
    abilities...Jordan is bigger and more physical now than Eric was even almost a year older in his draft year--BUT I just do not see Jordan thinking the game as well,nor do I see his release and wrist shot as being as good,nor is he good at faceoffs --unless he improves those qualities I doubt he can ever be the scoring success Eric has become,and if he cannot win faceoffs then they eventually may have to move him to wing...people HOPE that the Staal genes will kick in and that he will improve in all the areas I've mentioned--but you do not know that for sure--so I cannot call him a "safe" pick or a "certain" gem at this stage...some may therefore call him raw but with big upside --maybe..but it is a crapshoot and there is no guarantee that every Staal brother will become an NHL star...look at the Sutter brothers--Brian was the only minor "star",the rest were just serviceable players for their teams--sure everyone talks of the Sutter genes as providing them all with "character"--but it doesn't mean one or two will be far behind the other brothers in ability...so I guess we are at this point in the discussion:

    IF you believe in Jordan Staal's upside then he's a top 5 for this draft;if you would rather draft kids who have displayed more ability than him NOW --then he's over-rated on most lists...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"