Flyers own St Louis' 1st round pick in 2018, 14th overall

[dats81]

Frost doesn't have to be better than Schenn (which I expect in any case) because he's a better fit than Schenn.
It's not just talent, but fit.
Schenn was meh at 3C, he'd be a solid 3 RW, after we traded Simmonds, but he's been replaced on the PP1 by Couts with no fall off.
Whereas Frost has a chance to be a top 6 talent at 3C who can play with almost any forward, making it easier to build a team.

That was Schenn's major flaw that it was so difficult to get him going despite all the natural talent.
And he still struggles winning faceoffs and is average at best defensively.

 

[baudib1]

Present value outweighs future value. This is why picks this year are heavily weighted over picks next year. Also, the Flyers assumed all of the risk in the deal. Furthermore, not only did the Flyers lose the current value of Schenn, they're burdened by the fact that their coach actually negatively impacts his team from time to time by putting Lehtera into the lineup. Regardless of his flaws, Schenn was a productive player.

The fact that Couturier stepped up his production this year doesn't offset the loss of Schenn. If Schenn were here, more goals and wins would have resulted.

I'm pretty excited about Frost, but Schenn was an exciting prospect at one time, too ("best player not in the NHL"). The Flyers suffered through his growing pains and traded him as he entered his prime. If you make this trade every year with your 25-year-old 25-goal scorers, you'll never win a Cup.

I'd label the deal right now as "fair to OK," with a chance to be good. But that's a long ways off. If we have to wait 5 years for Frost to be as good as Schenn is (which is a really strong possibility), I'd call the trade a loss. The average value of a middle 1st-round pick doesn't offset 5 years of value.

If Frost is only as good as Laughton, it's a disaster.

 

[hatcher]

Present value outweighs future value. This is why picks this year are heavily weighted over picks next year. Also, the Flyers assumed all of the risk in the deal. Furthermore, not only did the Flyers lose the current value of Schenn, they're burdened by the fact that their coach actually negatively impacts his team from time to time by putting Lehtera into the lineup. Regardless of his flaws, Schenn was a productive player.

The fact that Couturier stepped up his production this year doesn't offset the loss of Schenn. If Schenn were here, more goals and wins would have resulted.

I'm pretty excited about Frost, but Schenn was an exciting prospect at one time, too ("best player not in the NHL"). The Flyers suffered through his growing pains and traded him as he entered his prime. If you make this trade every year with your 25-year-old 25-goal scorers, you'll never win a Cup.

I'd label the deal right now as "fair to OK," with a chance to be good. But that's a long ways off. If we have to wait 5 years for Frost to be as good as Schenn is (which is a really strong possibility), I'd call the trade a loss. The average value of a middle 1st-round pick doesn't offset 5 years of value.

If Frost is only as good as Laughton, it's a disaster.

Yes it wasn't that great of a trade but let's hope. Lots of 100 pt players in jr never make it.

 

[BritainStix]

It was a smart move by Hextal. We cleared 5 million off the books for a player who was never going to play in the top 2 centre roles over Coots and Patrick. He obviously wasnt thrilled about playing wing.

That money, along with Lehtera/Filpula/Farmer will go a long way to us being able to maintain a strong youthful core into their prime. Provorov, Konecny, Sanheim, Lindblom and Patrick will require paying. If we want to stay competative then the deals we have given to Ghost and Coots will go a long way to ensuring future success. Id rather us spend 5 mil on Konecny as a top line winger than Schenn as a 25 goal third line centre.

We got 2 first rounders for him, which has resulted in one of the best prospects in the world right now. With the ability of the flyers scouting department im excited what the next first becomes too. Hextal is playing the long game and its about god damn time we did.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Present value outweighs future value. This is why picks this year are heavily weighted over picks next year. Also, the Flyers assumed all of the risk in the deal. Furthermore, not only did the Flyers lose the current value of Schenn, they're burdened by the fact that their coach actually negatively impacts his team from time to time by putting Lehtera into the lineup. Regardless of his flaws, Schenn was a productive player.

The fact that Couturier stepped up his production this year doesn't offset the loss of Schenn. If Schenn were here, more goals and wins would have resulted.

I'm pretty excited about Frost, but Schenn was an exciting prospect at one time, too ("best player not in the NHL"). The Flyers suffered through his growing pains and traded him as he entered his prime. If you make this trade every year with your 25-year-old 25-goal scorers, you'll never win a Cup.

I'd label the deal right now as "fair to OK," with a chance to be good. But that's a long ways off. If we have to wait 5 years for Frost to be as good as Schenn is (which is a really strong possibility), I'd call the trade a loss. The average value of a middle 1st-round pick doesn't offset 5 years of value.

If Frost is only as good as Laughton, it's a disaster.

You are over simplifying. They turned a non-core player that they would not be able to afford keeping down the road into very good futures assets.

 

[Rebels57]

Present value outweighs future value. This is why picks this year are heavily weighted over picks next year. Also, the Flyers assumed all of the risk in the deal. Furthermore, not only did the Flyers lose the current value of Schenn, they're burdened by the fact that their coach actually negatively impacts his team from time to time by putting Lehtera into the lineup. Regardless of his flaws, Schenn was a productive player.

The fact that Couturier stepped up his production this year doesn't offset the loss of Schenn. If Schenn were here, more goals and wins would have resulted.

I'm pretty excited about Frost, but Schenn was an exciting prospect at one time, too ("best player not in the NHL"). The Flyers suffered through his growing pains and traded him as he entered his prime. If you make this trade every year with your 25-year-old 25-goal scorers, you'll never win a Cup.

I'd label the deal right now as "fair to OK," with a chance to be good. But that's a long ways off. If we have to wait 5 years for Frost to be as good as Schenn is (which is a really strong possibility), I'd call the trade a loss. The average value of a middle 1st-round pick doesn't offset 5 years of value.

If Frost is only as good as Laughton, it's a disaster.

Either Konecny or Schenn would not be in the top 6 and would not be anywhere near as productive because they'd have Val Filppula or Scott Laughton as their center.

Obviously we would have been better having Schenn this season but I do think when all is said and done, we will win this trade. It's just too soon to tell.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It looks the rare true win-win.

 

[deadhead]

Schenn wasn't a good long-run fit, and it's obvious they had targeted Frost and Ratcliffe, the trade let them get both (since they didn't have to trade up for Frost, they were free to trade up for Ratcliffe), and another mid-first round pick this year.

Flyers weren't a serious contender this year with Schenn, they might have garnered 3-4 more points but even if they hit 100 and got home ice advantage, with these goalies does anyone think they get past the second round?

St Louis gambled and lost, they thought he might help them over the top.
Flyers gambled and won, they got a potentially elite center, a "unicorn" forward and a fairly high 1st rd pick in 2018.

 

[Tripod]

Wait a second.....Schenn COULD have been at LW all year in the top 6.

Schenn Patrick and Jake could have been a good 2nd line all year.

But for sure trading Schenn opened up Couts being on the PP which I think added to his confidence. And the trade certainly was made to make the Flyers better in the future, not the present.

 

[deadhead]

Schenn was tried at LW in the past, it wasn't very pretty.
Nor did he want to be a winger.
And he probably wasn't the guy you wanted with Patrick the first half of the season.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Present value outweighs future value. This is why picks this year are heavily weighted over picks next year. Also, the Flyers assumed all of the risk in the deal. Furthermore, not only did the Flyers lose the current value of Schenn, they're burdened by the fact that their coach actually negatively impacts his team from time to time by putting Lehtera into the lineup. Regardless of his flaws, Schenn was a productive player.

But it's 3 years of Schenn (@ 5.125 AAV) vs. ~7+ years of a cost controlled Morgan Frost + potentially another ~7+ years of whatever they get out of the mid-first round pick this year - (whatever opportunity cost comes from taking on Lehtera's contract). They also have the flexibility to package the first this year for a higher pick or a roster player from another team. The coach playing Lehtera shouldn't factor into one's evaluation of the trade. If you want to blame Hextall for leaving him on the roster, that's fair game, but Lehtera was just the cost of doing business. It's pretty obvious lucking out in the lottery and adding Patrick played a big role in Hextall pulling the trigger on this deal.

Seeing Frost's development this year, it's hard for me to see the Flyers not coming out on top of this trade. He's a tremendous prospect that plays a pro-style game already and he appears to be on the trajectory of a possible star. Now one of the best drafting teams in the league gets another crack in the first round this year? It's the icing on the cake.

I'm pretty excited about Frost, but Schenn was an exciting prospect at one time, too ("best player not in the NHL"). The Flyers suffered through his growing pains and traded him as he entered his prime. If you make this trade every year with your 25-year-old 25-goal scorers, you'll never win a Cup.

What if it's a 25 goal scorer that scores and drives play like a 4th liner at ES? Being competitive is all about maximizing the value of your roster and not just holding on to your veterans for the sake of it. If you know when to sell high, you can actually extend your Cup window, rather than minimizing it. I know you don't want to trade Simmonds so I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here.

I didn't hate Schenn like a lot of people did, but he had his flaws. Was he held back by the coach's systems? Possibly and that is something to evaluate (along with the coach thinking Filppula was a viable 2C), but it's pretty obvious Hextall thinks the coach is here for the long haul.

I'd label the deal right now as "fair to OK," with a chance to be good. But that's a long ways off. If we have to wait 5 years for Frost to be as good as Schenn is (which is a really strong possibility), I'd call the trade a loss. The average value of a middle 1st-round pick doesn't offset 5 years of value.

But Schenn was only under team control for 3 more years so where does this 5 years of value come from?

If Frost is only as good as Laughton, it's a disaster.

Why Laughton? Frost is already a much better prospect at the same age. What if he's as good as Giroux?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

But it's 3 years of Schenn (@ 5.125 AAV) vs. ~7+ years of a cost controlled Morgan Frost + potentially another ~7+ years of whatever they get out of the mid-first round pick this year - (whatever opportunity cost comes from taking on Lehtera's contract). They also have the flexibility to package the first this year for a higher pick or a roster player from another team. The coach playing Lehtera shouldn't factor into one's evaluation of the trade. If you want to blame Hextall for leaving him on the roster, that's fair game, but Lehtera was just the cost of doing business. It's pretty obvious lucking out in the lottery and adding Patrick played a big role in Hextall pulling the trigger on this deal.

Seeing Frost's development this year, it's hard for me to see the Flyers not coming out on top of this trade. He's a tremendous prospect that plays a pro-style game already and he appears to be on the trajectory of a possible star. Now one of the best drafting teams in the league gets another crack in the first round this year? It's the icing on the cake.


What if it's a 25 goal scorer that scores and drives play like a 4th liner at ES? Being competitive is all about maximizing the value of your roster and not just holding on to your veterans for the sake of it. If you know when to sell high, you can actually extend your Cup window, rather than minimizing it. I know you don't want to trade Simmonds so I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here.

I didn't hate Schenn like a lot of people did, but he had his flaws. Was he held back by the coach's systems? Possibly and that is something to evaluate (along with the coach thinking Filppula was a viable 2C), but it's pretty obvious Hextall thinks the coach is here for the long haul.


But Schenn was only under team control for 3 more years so where does this 5 years of value come from?


Why Laughton? Frost is already a much better prospect at the same age. What if he's as good as Giroux?

The only thing that could have made this post better was one of your golden nuggets of inside information

 

[Curufinwe]

Love the Laughton comparable since he had exactly half as many points in his D+1 season as Frost.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I can't think of a more perfect profile of player to trade than a signed 25 year old 50 point Forward you don't think has another level. You're cashing out at what you believe to be his value peak.

 

[Rebels57]

It's not unrealistic to say that Frost could be a top 20 Center in the NHL one day based on his D+1 season.

 

[deadhead]

Well, I don't think it's because of his D+1 season, Weal had a pretty good D+1 season!

Rather, the D+1 season merely confirmed that he was maturing into the player Hextall hoped he was drafting, an extremely smart, very fast center who developed a solid shot to go with his playmaking talent and all around game.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Well, I don't think it's because of his D+1 season, Weal had a pretty good D+1 season!

Rather, the D+1 season merely confirmed that he was maturing into the player Hextall hoped he was drafting, an extremely smart, very fast center who developed a solid shot to go with his playmaking talent and all around game.

Weal's D+1 season was arguably worse than his draft season. You are probably thinking of his D+2 season.

 

[The Madrigal]

Updated

1-10
1. Coyotes 57 points in 71 games
2. Sabres 58 points in 71 games
3. Canucks 59 points in 72 games
4. Redwings 63 points in 72 games
5. Senators 63 points in 71 games
6. Canadiens 64 points in 72 games
7. Oilers 67 points in 72 games
8. Blackhawks 69 points in 73 games
9. Islanders 70 points in 72 games
10. Hurricanes 73 points in 72 games

11 - 15
11. Rangers 72 points in 72 games
12. Panthers 77 points in 69 games
13. Flames 80 points in 73 games
14. Blues 83 points in 72 games
15. Ducks 86 points in 73 games

Western Conference Wildcard Standings
1. Avalanche 86 points in 72 games
2. Ducks 86 points in 73 games
3. Stars 84 points in 73 games
4. Blues 83 points in 72 games
5. Flames 80 points in 73 games​

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

No there wasn't

Yeah, forgot about Lehturda.

 

[The Madrigal]

1-10
1. Sabres 58 points in 72 games
2. Coyotes 59 points in 72 games
3. Canucks 59 points in 72 games
4. Senators 63 points in 72 games
5. Canadiens 64 points in 73 games
6. Redwings 65 points in 73 games
7. Blackhawks 69 points in 74 games
8. Oilers 69 points in 73 games
9. Islanders 72 points in 73 games
10. Rangers 72 points in 73 games

11 - 15
11. Hurricanes 73 points in 73 games
12. Flames 80 points in 74 games
13. Panthers 81 points in 71 games
14. Blues 83 points in 72 games
15. Stars 84 points in 74 games

Western Conference Wildcard Standings
1. Avalanche 88 points in 73 games
2. Ducks 86 points in 73 games
3. Stars 84 points in 74 games
4. Blues 83 points in 72 games
5. Flames 80 points in 74 games

 

[The Madrigal]

Western Conference Wildcard Standings
1. Avalanche 88 points in 73 games
2. Ducks 88 points in 74 games
3. Blues 85 points in 73 games
4. Stars 84 points in 74 games
5. Flames 80 points in 75 games

 

[FlyTimmo]

It's gonna be a close one.

St.Louis: VAN, @CBJ, SJS, @VGK, @Ari, WSH, CHI, @CHI, @COL
Anaheim: @WPG, @EDM, @Van, LA, COL, MIN, DAL, @Ari
Avs: LA, VGK, @VGK, PHI, CHI, @ANA, @LA, @SJS, @STL
Stars: BOS, VAN, PHI, @MIN, MIN, @SJS, @ANA, @LA

Avs probably have the toughest schedule so it is good that they are up in standings.

 

[The Madrigal]

It's gonna be a close one.

St.Louis: VAN, @CBJ, SJS, @VGK, @Ari, WSH, CHI, @CHI, @COL
Anaheim: @WPG, @EDM, @Van, LA, COL, MIN, DAL, @Ari
Avs: LA, VGK, @VGK, PHI, CHI, @ANA, @LA, @SJS, @STL
Stars: BOS, VAN, PHI, @MIN, MIN, @SJS, @ANA, @LA

Avs probably have the toughest schedule so it is good that they are up in standings.

The Flames are completely out of it t this point. The Blues are pretty much out of contention for catching Minnesota for 3rd place in the central. It's coming down to Colorado, Anaheim, St. Louis, and Dallas for two wild card spots. Last night was an unfortunate big win for St. Louis, trailing 1-0 mid way through the 3rd and getting the win over Boston. A Colorado win tonight over LA would be nice.

 

[FlyTimmo]

The remaining schedule difficulty based on last 10 games.

10=more difficult
1=less difficult
STL: 5.4
ANA: 4.6
COL: 5.4
DAL: 5

This is far from perfect but they all have pretty similar schedules in terms of difficulty. Colorado's current lead will help them tremendously while DAL looks like they are on the way out.

 

[Winston Wolf]

The remaining schedule difficulty based on last 10 games.

10=more difficult
1=less difficult
STL: 5.4
ANA: 4.6
COL: 5.4
DAL: 5

This is far from perfect but they all have pretty similar schedules in terms of difficulty. Colorado's current lead will help them tremendously while DAL looks like they are on the way out.

How are you coming up with Dallas having an easier schedule than St. Louis? St. Louis has 4 games against teams with no playoff hopes; Dallas only has 1.