St. John's Joining the ECHL (Confirmed)

Growlers

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Dec 9, 2017
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CBC News has learned that a group trying to bring hockey back to Mile One and the owners of the St. John's Edge have reached an agreement that will allow both groups to work together at the downtown St. John's facility.

Businessman Dean MacDonald and former St. John's IceCaps chief operating officer Glenn Stanford secured a deal with the ECHL to bring a hockey team to St. John's for this coming September.
The deal hit a legal snag, however, because the owners of the Edge basketball team had first rights to secure teams for the building.

The matter was supposed to head to arbitration, but sources tell CBC News that details of the agreement will be announced early next week when the majority owner of the Edge, Irwin Simon, is in the province.

Source: Game on: Groups trying to bring hockey back to Mile One reach agreement
 

BigBadBread

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Dec 4, 2006
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Bit of local perspective on this....I've seen many people with the opinion that the ECHL won't succeed in St John's or fans here won't support the product based of history with the QMJHL Fog Devils. I believe that this situation is 100% different than the Q experiment and has great potential to be a well supported and sustainable venture that fans here will love.

The main reason the Fog Devils flopped can be pinned to horrible ownership. The Dobbins that owned the team were not hockey businessmen, they were just businessmen. They put the almighty dollar above anything else and it reflected in the team. The fan experience was bad and word of mouth from a few people directly involved with the team then say it was a horrible group to work for and players on the team said it was a bad team to play for as well.

The city's hockey fanbase has matured greatly since the AHL Leafs left. When it was announced that the QMJHL would come many saw it as a downgrade to AHL Pro hockey and never bothered to show any interest. This was also a major contributor to that team failing along with the ownership issues. When the IceCaps brought the city another high level hockey team the city really took to the team and sold out almost the entire first season and came close to breaking the AHL sellout record. My belief is that that only thing that made fan interest and support dwindle for the AHL in the last few years here was the current AHL/NHL model of looking after the NHL team interests over the local fanbase and the resulting lack of commitment to the city and always looming end of contracts and the questions about the future that comes with that. The city just wants a team to call it's own and not have to worry about the rug being pulled based on circumstances they have no control over.

St John's is a very passionate hockey city in my opinion and despite the economic downturn here recently, there is still money out there to spend on cheap local sports. The Edge basketball team has been doing better than anyone imagined. If the ECHL comes to St John's and the league and ownership group can make the city and fanbase believe they are making a commitment to the area and will stay long term, then they have potential to be a great addition to the league. Having Glen Stanford involved is a major positive as he knows the area and fanbase well and every team he's been involved in here has had success.
 

royals119

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Jun 12, 2006
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I will be interested to hear if this is an expansion team or a relocation. If it is an expansion, or a relocation of Colorado it will make for four equal division, with reasonable geographic groupings. I don't remember a time when there was such an easy way to divide up the league into equal divisions.

Obviously KC gets moved from the Central to the west to replace Colorado, and Portland and St John's go in the north, with no changes in the south.

The only real decision would be which team out of Wheeling and Brampton gets moved from the North to the central, but I think Wheeling is the more obvious choice. They are closer to Cincy than any other team, and Brampton probably has better travel to the northeast teams than it does to the midwest ones.
 

DudeWhereIsMakar

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I hope they're affiliated with a team close by, but my guess it's affiliated with a Canadian team. But it would make sense if the Brampton Beast is affiliated with the Leafs and this team is affiliated with the Habs because flights would be easy from there.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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I hope they're affiliated with a team close by, but my guess it's affiliated with a Canadian team. But it would make sense if the Brampton Beast is affiliated with the Leafs and this team is affiliated with the Habs because flights would be easy from there.
you're forgetting Orlando, Makar.... the Leafs essentially will become the affiliate of this St. John's franchise as previously reported, has nothing to do with Brampton

Congrats St. John's and welcome back
 

DudeWhereIsMakar

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you're forgetting Orlando, Makar.... the Leafs essentially will become the affiliate of this St. John's franchise as previously reported, has nothing to do with Brampton

Congrats St. John's and welcome back

Brampton Beast... it's closer to the Toronto area and will be easier for fans to cheer for them which will mean ticket sales will rise.

But if they're affilaited with the Leafs, then so be it. Orlando should be affiliated with either Tampa or Florida Panthers, mind you I'd hope they go up to the AHL.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Brampton Beast... it's closer to the Toronto area and will be easier for fans to cheer for them which will mean ticket sales will rise.

But if they're affilaited with the Leafs, then so be it. Orlando should be affiliated with either Tampa or Florida Panthers, mind you I'd hope they go up to the AHL.

Tampa, I believe is spoken for and Florida has had agreements with Manchester since the AHL Club has been either in Portland or Springfield, think Logan, Makar , AND SAME with Adirondack's Thunder being near AHL Syracuse....

MLSE was well known there before leaving for Ricoh Coliseum, because part of that deal involves the Marlies returning, since they were the tenants previously... that's why initial speculation said MTL, AND Les Canadiens never came to pass
 

IceCapsFanNL

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It looks like a done deal, St. John's will be the ECHL affiliate of the Leafs. I think the team will draw very well, especially as the affiliate will be locally owned, i.e. won't be moved while the team is successful as the AHL leafs and both IceCaps team were.

I'd expect the team to be named St. John's Caps, with a red white collar scheme close to what Detroit uses. Its a name and color scheme that goes back to the 1940's.

The local paper's sports editor suggests that Jason Jaffray might be first in kine to be given the chance to be the coach
 

Woo Hockey

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I hope they're affiliated with a team close by, but my guess it's affiliated with a Canadian team. But it would make sense if the Brampton Beast is affiliated with the Leafs and this team is affiliated with the Habs because flights would be easy from there.

I could see a Brampton - Ottawa affiliation and a Montreal - St. John's affiliation working out... If Toronto stays affiliating with Orlando.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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I could see a Brampton - Ottawa affiliation and a Montreal - St. John's affiliation working out... If Toronto stays affiliating with Orlando.

already confirmed, Toronto is the affiliate of the new St. John's franchise when it begins, WH, it's not Montreal, why would Stanford get involved if it was a Canadiens affiliate, based off historically what the Marlies were then....

Orlando is done, had this dragged further into arbitration... MLSE likely would've retained Orlando.

Brampton already has both Montreal and Laval as their affiliate.....
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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But IF Quebec City gets a team (and improves their airport) St. John's will be their AHL affiliate.

Quebec will never have a pro franchise, Makar... that's what Laval was in 1999, and Montreal affiliations have rarely lasted a dozen years, even when they've owned them, remember the rivalry between the two....

Canadiens have been in:

Montreal, Halifax, Sherbrooke, Rochester, QC, twice, Fredericton, St. John's, Hamilton, and now Laval
 

210

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Quebec will never have a pro franchise, Makar... that's what Laval was in 1999, and Montreal affiliations have rarely lasted a dozen years, even when they've owned them, remember the rivalry between the two....

Canadiens have been in:

Montreal, Halifax, Sherbrooke, Rochester, QC, twice, Fredericton, St. John's, Hamilton, and now Laval

The Videotron Centre was built to house an NHL team....eventually there will be one there.
 
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BruinDust

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Aug 2, 2005
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Bit of local perspective on this....I've seen many people with the opinion that the ECHL won't succeed in St John's or fans here won't support the product based of history with the QMJHL Fog Devils. I believe that this situation is 100% different than the Q experiment and has great potential to be a well supported and sustainable venture that fans here will love.

The main reason the Fog Devils flopped can be pinned to horrible ownership. The Dobbins that owned the team were not hockey businessmen, they were just businessmen. They put the almighty dollar above anything else and it reflected in the team. The fan experience was bad and word of mouth from a few people directly involved with the team then say it was a horrible group to work for and players on the team said it was a bad team to play for as well.

The city's hockey fanbase has matured greatly since the AHL Leafs left. When it was announced that the QMJHL would come many saw it as a downgrade to AHL Pro hockey and never bothered to show any interest. This was also a major contributor to that team failing along with the ownership issues. When the IceCaps brought the city another high level hockey team the city really took to the team and sold out almost the entire first season and came close to breaking the AHL sellout record. My belief is that that only thing that made fan interest and support dwindle for the AHL in the last few years here was the current AHL/NHL model of looking after the NHL team interests over the local fanbase and the resulting lack of commitment to the city and always looming end of contracts and the questions about the future that comes with that. The city just wants a team to call it's own and not have to worry about the rug being pulled based on circumstances they have no control over.

St John's is a very passionate hockey city in my opinion and despite the economic downturn here recently, there is still money out there to spend on cheap local sports. The Edge basketball team has been doing better than anyone imagined. If the ECHL comes to St John's and the league and ownership group can make the city and fanbase believe they are making a commitment to the area and will stay long term, then they have potential to be a great addition to the league. Having Glen Stanford involved is a major positive as he knows the area and fanbase well and every team he's been involved in here has had success.

While there is some truth here, It's also a pretty optimistic in terms of an ECHL team having success in St. John's.

As far as the Fog Devils go, they had no chance of success. SJ Sports and Entertainment were never going to do anything to help the Dobbins, having been the losing bidder for the QMJHL franchise at the time. When the Dobbins wanted to re-negotiate their lease agreement to keep the team financially viable, the politics between the two groups weren't going to see any favors done.

Also didn't help that the Fog Devils never got to go through the 4-year cycles you typically see in CHL hockey, where in Year 4 your team is older and likely a Memorial Cup contender. The fanbase might have grown if they had gotten to that point, instead they got 2 years of a mediocre team, and the product suffered as a result. Hence the perception it wasn't good hockey.

While the Dobbins might not of been "hockey businessmen", you can be guaranteed the new ownership isn't going to eat a loss year after year because they love hockey. Every team considers the bottom line, they are in this to make money. To think otherwise is pretty naive. Not saying the Dobbin were great owners (I have no idea if they were or weren't), but making money is the main motivator here.

The Lame Duck status didn't help the IceCaps. The in-game fan experience was great, a packed house on a Saturday night rocked that building. Also changing affiliates hurt, the Leafs and the Bruins are two of the most popular teams in NL (along with the Habs), but being a Montreal affiliate turned off fans of some of these NHL teams, they weren't about to cheer and support the farm team of the Canadiens. As a Bruins fan I didn't support the IceCaps in any way once they became the Baby Habs. The IceCaps when they were the Jets affiliate was almost perfect, a farm team of a Canadian team that really no fan had any animosity for. The IceCaps there last season weren't drawing numbers, even with affordable tickets.

The ECHL team will still have the travel issue to deal with. And unlike the Fog Devils, they will have the added cost of having to pay most of their players. Likely-hood is only one or two guys on the team will have contracts with NHL teams to pay their salaries.

This will be a challenge for the ownership to make financially successful. They will likely do well in the early going, just because it's a' new product and fans will be interested to see what it is all about. But as the seasons go on, will they grow enough of a non-casual fanbase to keep attendence numbers up to keep the owners from losing money? I'm not so sure. I'm not saying this is a guaranteed failure by any means, but success is far from guaranteed and I think they will be challenged to make a go of this long-term.
 

Agalloch

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Looks like Brampton will be affiliated with Ottawa (they already act like it's their affiliate). St. John's with Toronto. Montreal with Maine?
 
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royals119

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The ECHL team will still have the travel issue to deal with. And unlike the Fog Devils, they will have the added cost of having to pay most of their players. Likely-hood is only one or two guys on the team will have contracts with NHL teams to pay their salaries.
Most ECHL teams get more players on AHL contracts than NHL contracts, but either way their salary is paid by the affiliate. In the case of Toronto, they have provided a significant number of players to Orlando the last few years, so I think they are a good financial partner as far at that goes.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Looks like Brampton will be affiliated with Ottawa (they already act like it's their affiliate). St. John's with Toronto. Montreal with Maine?

TBTH, I'M expecting Boston to return to Portland, based off the alumni exhibition, since Philadelphia is staying with Reading, where that places Atlanta is now the question, especially since Portland has multiple connections within Reading and Philadelphia between the ownership and the new coaching hire.... because it makes sense to have everything in New England..... I don't think Montreal plays well in New England with Boston being their arch-rival, because likely Portland fans identify more with Boston, (the Sox and Celtics both have presence in the city, with their affiliates playing in the Deering section of the city).
 

BruinDust

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Most ECHL teams get more players on AHL contracts than NHL contracts, but either way their salary is paid by the affiliate. In the case of Toronto, they have provided a significant number of players to Orlando the last few years, so I think they are a good financial partner as far at that goes.

Should be, would certainly help their chances of financial success if the Leafs use their ECHL affiliate to place more than a couple players. I know the Bruins haven't placed many players in their ECHL affiliate the last number of years. This year they have just one I think (Vlader) and can't think of any year they have had more than a couple of their prospects down there.
 

Agalloch

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TBTH, I'M expecting Boston to return to Portland, based off the alumni exhibition, since Philadelphia is staying with Reading, where that places Atlanta is now the question, especially since Portland has multiple connections within Reading and Philadelphia between the ownership and the new coaching hire.... because it makes sense to have everything in New England..... I don't think Montreal plays well in New England with Boston being their arch-rival, because likely Portland fans identify more with Boston, (the Sox and Celtics both have presence in the city, with their affiliates playing in the Deering section of the city).

I thought Atlanta and Boston were together for another year. They signed until 2018-19. I agree that Canadiens in Maine isn't logic but they are in Maple Leafs 'territory' right now.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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I thought Atlanta and Boston were together for another year. They signed until 2018-19. I agree that Canadiens in Maine isn't logic but they are in Maple Leafs 'territory' right now.
remember, that can be amended, and I'm sure that's being discussed behind the scenes, most contracts are year to year agreements or so we've been aware of that when the majority of the fanbases were in the AHL....

I'M NOT so sure how much Boston pays Atlanta for the affiliation, but Nashville came in as a secondary after the Preds liaison was canned in Norfolk, after 7 months, and the Predators moved their contracts to Atlanta....
 

Agalloch

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remember, that can be amended, and I'm sure that's being discussed behind the scenes, most contracts are year to year agreements or so we've been aware of that when the majority of the fanbases were in the AHL....

I'M NOT so sure how much Boston pays Atlanta for the affiliation, but Nashville came in as a secondary after the Preds liaison was canned in Norfolk, after 7 months, and the Predators moved their contracts to Atlanta....

Oh ok. Then it makes sense.

Atlanta (Nashville)
Portland (Boston)
St. John's (Toronto)
Montreal ?
Norfolk ?
 
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Growlers

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BruinDust "As a Bruins fan I didn't support the IceCaps in any way once they became the Baby Habs"

That is ridiculous. I'm a Montreal fan, but I ALWAYS supported the St. John's Maple Leafs where they were here. So many Leafs fans would not support the IceCaps once they become Montreal Affliate. They Hate Montreal more than the like their own city...Shameful
 
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royals119

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remember, that can be amended, and I'm sure that's being discussed behind the scenes, most contracts are year to year agreements or so we've been aware of that when the majority of the fanbases were in the AHL....

I'M NOT so sure how much Boston pays Atlanta for the affiliation, but Nashville came in as a secondary after the Preds liaison was canned in Norfolk, after 7 months, and the Predators moved their contracts to Atlanta....
Wait, are you saying a team could break their affiliation contract before the term is up? Surprising!

I don't think the NHL team pays the ECHL team for affiliation. I think it is the other way around.
 

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