Ansar Khan: Sproul Staying on Roster, Told to get a Place in the Area

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Scroll up and see who started the argument. Not me.

Plus, I didn't say either one was a good skater.

But while we're at it, quantify how Sproul is the better skater, if indeed he is better as you say.

If I remember correctly, the whole reason why we got to see so much of Oullet last season is because Sproul's skating wasn't ready for prime-time. I mean, he certainly would have been there otherwise, being a righty. No?

His defensive game was not ready. It improved a ton in Grand Rapids last year under Nelson. Knock has never been his skating.
 

obey86

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Jun 9, 2009
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Scroll up and see who started the argument. Not me.

Plus, I didn't say either one was a good skater.

But while we're at it, quantify how Sproul is the better skater, if indeed he is better as you say.

If I remember correctly, the whole reason why we got to see so much of Oullet last season is because Sproul's skating wasn't ready for prime-time. I mean, he certainly would have been there otherwise, being a righty. No?


You can't quantify skating. You just have to watch. It's obvious Sproul is a better skater by watching.

“Sproulie has done a good job, for the most part, of winning puck battles in his own end and getting back and getting pucks,” coach Jeff Blashill said. “And then he's, obviously, got a real ability to skate up the ice and put other teams on their heels, which plays into how we want to play.”

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/10/25/ryan-sproul-detroit-red-wings/92733330/

"He's got a great skill-set, he's a great skater, he can really shoot it," coach Jeff Blashill said. "I think when he plays assertively with his feet defensively, meaning gapping tight, ending plays early, he can be a real good defender. He's got to go back and break pucks out, he's got to defend well and he's got to beat people up the ice and be dynamic on the power play."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/10/red_wings_notes_offensive-mind.html
 

DetroitRed

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Apr 7, 2013
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I probably would pick Sproul over Ouellet. But I don't think that what you may have read in one of their scouting reports from however many years ago is what we see on the ice now. And I'm not sure where else that idea could come from, because you certainly don't see it come out in their recent games in any quantifiable way. I honestly think that we don't have a large enough sample to say much for sure, which is why I said "probably."

And Sproul's skating was a factor in Ouellet's call-up last season. It was part of why he didn't play as well as Ouellet defensively. I think it is still of part of why Ouellet is the slightly better defensive defender. I say so because a guy who is bigger, not to mention who skates better (if it's true), should be the better defensive defender, almost hands-down, unless he has really bad sense. But I don't see Sproul as having such bad sense defensively.
 

Ezekial

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Sproul is a better skater than XO, it is known.

Not sure what else you want. Watching the games, he's a better skater, our coach says he's a great skater. Anyone who's watched these two play extensively would say he's the better skater, you should quit while you're behind.
 

Satrebil

Registered User
Aug 3, 2006
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Sproul is a better skater than XO, it is known.

Not sure what else you want. Watching the games, he's a better skater, our coach says he's a great skater. Anyone who's watched these two play extensively would say he's the better skater, you should quit while you're behind.

No doubt about it. And speed can certainly be quantified.
 

obey86

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Jun 9, 2009
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Sproul is a better skater than XO, it is known.

Not sure what else you want. Watching the games, he's a better skater, our coach says he's a great skater. Anyone who's watched these two play extensively would say he's the better skater, you should quit while you're behind.

He can't just admit he's wrong lol. I think he got the two players mixed up.

Also, i'm not sure what being good defensively has to do with being a good skater or not. He keeps mentioning that.
 

obey86

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Jun 9, 2009
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It can translate on-ice, or should.

And that's not watching; that's reading a magazine.

And it does. If you watch and compare the players.

XO's knock has been he is a below average skater. One of Sproul's strengths has been his skating ability. This isn't tough stuff.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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But I don't see Sproul as having such bad sense defensively.

That's been exactly his issue, at least up until this year.

It's almost like you're suggesting good skating = good defensively. I could give you 100 examples where that's not true.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Nov 8, 2011
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Sproul's only real speed issue was his lateral agility when he first got up and he has improved his first few steps a bit. But really that had much more to do with the fact he would stop moving his feet while diagnosing plays. He was also not real sturdy in front of the net, he often got caught when not moving his feet on the wrong side of people.

Credit to Todd Nelson for getting through. The message has been consistent from Blashill and the quote above in this thread are the same things he has been harping on for Sproul to be successful since his rookie season. It seems a lot of that finally clicked in. The guy of the last year and change is a lot different than the guy from his first two years. Good on him, his ability to get shots through should keep him in the lineup. His mental mistakes have really gone away or are at least worth the other components of his game. He does seem a better fit with players that move the puck faster and more accurate too, you can see his confidence in reading what they are doing and trusting the higher execution rate.

On XO since these players seem forever linked. If we can get something when the time comes great. XO is one of the smartest D prospects I have seen. He has an awesome stick, great positioning and makes the correct read like clockwork. Ultimately he never made the skating gains necessary to make it as more than a replaceable 6 or 7. By the way Marchenko skating problems might doom him to 6 or 7 status too but he is a right handed and slightly bigger so he wins out there.

It isn't like XO isn't a notoriously hard worker either. So the waiting for more gains in his game is getting tougher to see. I mean XO has been saying since we drafted him his focus was on getting better skating in every off-season. Unfortunately it just isn't getting much better and without that his career is going to be hoping to be a 6 or 7 as long as he can in the league.

Sproul's tools and progression in his weakness areas make him an easier keep than Ouellet.
 

Ezekial

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He can't just admit he's wrong lol. I think he got the two players mixed up.

Also, i'm not sure what being good defensively has to do with being a good skater or not. He keeps mentioning that.
When I think of great defensive defenseman I think of Vlasic and Hammer, not exactly elite skating ability.
 

Inspiration

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
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Everyone seems to make the mistake of assuming Xavier Ouellet is just Alexei Marchenko 2.0; another stay at home defenseman (which, to be fair, is exactly how the media has portrayed him since he's been in the Wings organization). If you watch him play, however, that's not his game at all. He is aggressive in joining the rush offensively (despite his lack of skating) and is highly confident transporting the puck on his stick (despite his lack of skill). He may not be a dominant player from inside of either blue line, but he's always been extremely effective in transition (which has been a major issue for this team in recent years).

Perhaps the conversation shouldn't be "Sproul or Ouellet" but instead "Sproul and Ouellet".
 

TheRatPoisoner

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Feb 23, 2015
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Opposed to waiving him, I'd take that 5th rounder. I don't XO makes it back to Grand Rapids. Many have said XO is similar to Vlasic/Hamhuis for years. Never saw it. Always got exposed with bigger minutes. I'm not ready to give up on him either though. He has potential. His skating needs to get better. That's been the big thing on him.

Yeah, losing him for nothing would suck.

And given that I think Babcock and company would claim him, it would suck even more if they just waived XO -- the thought of helping the leafs out even the tiniest bit would kinda bug me.

For me, this has been one of the most interesting questions about the Wings' young season.

Sproul may be a better fit than Oullet, for the Wings, in terms of chemistry, plus Sproul is a righty. But the sample of games, at the NHL level, that we have from Sproul doesn't leave me particularly confident he is the right choice, over Oullet, if they have indeed decided.

Sproul may be the right choice, but if it's just coming down to him having one more assist than Oullet this season, his being right-handed, and the bigger of the two options, then it's a pretty tough call. Oullet may be the better skater and defender.

It doesn't seem like Marchenko is in much danger in losing his job, given the small sample of NHL games that we have from that trio, and especially from Sproul.

Agree with this -- whoever they end up choosing, I'm not sure you'll know for certain that it's the right choice given the small sample size they have to go on. I actually get the sense that the Wings aren't 100% certain either given that they went with XO at the beginning of the season. What probably ends up happening here, if I had to guess, is that the team loses XO at some point during the season whether it be through waivers or trade, and we figure out several months down the road if it was the right move or not. It's basically a gamble I think either way you slice it, but I think Sproul gets the edge here for three reasons:

1) Being an offensive d-man, he brings a dimension to the Wings' backend that they're lacking -- they already have too many stay at home types as it is. He basically "fits" better, as you put it.

2) He's has better tools than XO, and by extension a higher ceiling I think. Question remains whether he's another Smith (i.e. tools no toolbox guy) that'll fold like a tent when he's asked to take on a bigger role, or if he can put it all together. If he does keep improving, I think he's got more potential to be an impact player.

3) He's outplayed XO so far, even if it's only a few games that we're basing that on.
 

HockeyinHD

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Jun 18, 2006
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Sproul has been better than XO by a substantial margin. This is the entirety of the debate. Sproul wins, XO loses. Either XO will be playing AHL hockey for Detroit, or he'll be playing it for whichever team claims him.

Rooting around in the detritus of 'faster skater' or 'better defender' nomenclature for the purpose of engaging in trench warfare is wholly beside the point. Sproul has presented the clearly and obviously better overall NHL game, and will be rewarded for that with a spot.
 

Wood Stick

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Dec 25, 2015
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Sproul has been better than XO by a substantial margin. This is the entirety of the debate. Sproul wins, XO loses. Either XO will be playing AHL hockey for Detroit, or he'll be playing it for whichever team claims him.

Rooting around in the detritus of 'faster skater' or 'better defender' nomenclature for the purpose of engaging in trench warfare is wholly beside the point. Sproul has presented the clearly and obviously better overall NHL game, and will be rewarded for that with a spot.

Sproul's style goes through rough stretches, and XO wasn't exactly bad after the first two games. Ideally, we keep all of them. Smith is a UFA, and is the only D expiring. Could keep everyone but Smith for next year. I don't think we lose a D to the expansion draft. Probably a forward. If Howie is lights out, maybe him.
 

joe89

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Apr 30, 2009
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Vlasic is an excellent skater actually, but yeah Hammer is nothing special as far as skating goes

About as fast laterally as skating forwards though, helps when you're stay at home. That's what bites Ouellet a little I think. Top speed not that important.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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May 17, 2012
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Sproul is without question a much better skater than XO (acceleration, top speed, lateral movement, quicker hips and faster edge to edge) and overall a much more dynamic player. His skating, length and hands simply allow him to do things that XO will never be able to do. XO's heavy feet will always hold him back at the NHL level, which is sad because he has a really good head for the game.

I think we have room on the roster for both for a while.
 

KapG

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Dec 2, 2008
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This is great news. Liked sproul since his draft year and picked him up in my keeper at that time too
 

KasperTheGrittyGhost

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Jan 12, 2008
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Scroll up and see who started the argument. Not me.

Plus, I didn't say either one was a good skater.

But while we're at it, quantify how Sproul is the better skater, if indeed he is better as you say.

If I remember correctly, the whole reason why we got to see so much of Oullet last season is because Sproul's skating wasn't ready for prime-time. I mean, he certainly would have been there otherwise, being a righty. No?

No that's not right man. The knock on Sproul has always been his defensive game. Skating and offense have been positives for him since his draft year.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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So I guess this was an elaborate prank? Hope you enjoy your new apartment in Detroit Sproul...
 

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