Soviet players points/goals/MVP top finishes

Namba 17

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World Championships 1976
And this is the only source I know, where Martinec is named the best F.
Really interesting.
It would have been logical to have Martinec as the best forward in 1976. But Fulbol-Khokkey has Kharlamov as the best...
I don't know what to do here, but so far I won't change my stats.
 

Theokritos

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I don't know what to do here

It is as confusing as it gets.

Quickly scanning the Football-Hockey edition you've provided, I assume you are referring to page 10?

Edit: Okay, I've found the section. Yeah, that seems pretty unambiguous.
 

Staniowski

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Jan 13, 2018
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World Championships 1976
And this is the only source I know, where Martinec is named the best F.
Really interesting.
It would have been logical to have Martinec as the best forward in 1976. But Fulbol-Khokkey has Kharlamov as the best...
I don't know what to do here, but so far I won't change my stats.

The Hockey Canada website says Martinec was Best Forward in '76. They list all the Directorate awards for all years.
IIHF Men's World Hockey Championship - Directorate Awards & MVP

Also, the Team Czech Republic Media Guide for the 2015 World Championships lists Martinec as Best Forward winner in '76.
http://www.cslh.cz/dokument/2044-media-guide-ms-2015.html

These are both IIHF sources.
 
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VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
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The Hockey Canada website says Martinec was Best Forward in '76. They list all the Directorate awards for all years.
IIHF Men's World Hockey Championship - Directorate Awards & MVP

Also, the Team Czech Republic Media Guide for the 2015 World Championships lists Martinec as Best Forward winner in '76.
http://www.cslh.cz/dokument/2044-media-guide-ms-2015.html

These are both IIHF sources.

Already years ago, I remember addressing the issue here, and a poster referred to some official IIHF yearbook (or the like), and said that it had Martinec as the best forward in 1976. So yes, the IIHF sources seem to 'favour' Martinec.

EDIT:
I originally was going to mention the The Hockey Canada website, but it has some, er, issues too, mispellings and so on. For example, I don't think they get the awards at the 1979 WHC quite right; that year it seems that the Directorate chose their own All-Star team and many sources have also Mikhailov and Makarov along with Paiement as winners of the best forward award (and Bubla as dman along with Vasiliev).
 
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Staniowski

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Yes, it's possible there could be errors with any source. I don't know the answer.

One thing you could do, is contact - email, telephone, etc. - the office of the IIHF in Switerland, tell them different sources say different things, and ask them if there is any explanation. Maybe they would have a satisfactory answer, maybe they wouldn't, but it would be possible that they would have clear evidence (perhaps a photo of the 3 Directorate awards winners together, for example).
 

DN28

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Jan 2, 2014
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Prague
The Hockey Canada website says Martinec was Best Forward in '76. They list all the Directorate awards for all years.
IIHF Men's World Hockey Championship - Directorate Awards & MVP

Also, the Team Czech Republic Media Guide for the 2015 World Championships lists Martinec as Best Forward winner in '76.
http://www.cslh.cz/dokument/2044-media-guide-ms-2015.html

These are both IIHF sources.

It´s very confusing to me too. You´d expect that Czech sources would all be "in favour" of Martinec, but I´ve seen some that listed Kharlamov as the best F of the WHC. Example: the page from Slovakian hockey yearbook 1976:

1976.JPG


At this point, I am inclined to just 'mentally grant' that award to both of them... :laugh:

Already years ago, I remember addressing the issue here, and a poster referred to some official IIHF yearbook (or the like), and said that it had Martinec as the best forward in 1976. So yes, the IIHF sources seem to 'favour' Martinec.

EDIT:
I originally was going to mention the The Hockey Canada website, but it has some, er, issues too, mispellings and so on. For example, I don't think they get the awards at the 1979 WHC quite right; that year it seems that the Directorate chose their own All-Star team and many sources have also Mikhailov and Makarov along with Paiement as winners of the best forward award (and Bubla as dman along with Vasiliev).

WHC 1979 seems like a headache too. Czech wiki has All-star team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Kharlamov; and Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Paiement, Makarov as the Directoriate´s best players.

English wiki has All-star team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Makarov.
Directoriate: Tretiak - Vasiliev - Paiement

Československý sport 1979 has this:
AS team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Makarov
Directoriate: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Paiement, Makarov

30.JPG
 

Theokritos

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With the sources we have now, it seems less likely to me that Kharlamov should erroneously have been named "best forward" by multiple sources. Martinec on the other hand was the top scorer of the tournament and it's not out of question someone got "best forward" and "best scorer" mixed up somewhere. On page 10 of the Football-Hockey issue provided by Namba 17 there are pictures of both players and below the picture of Kharlamov it says "Valery Kharlamov – recognized as best forward of the Championship" and below the picture of Martinec it says "Vladimir Martinec – best scorer of the Championship".
 

Theokritos

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WHC 1979 seems like a headache too. Czech wiki has All-star team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Kharlamov; and Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Paiement, Makarov as the Directoriate´s best players.

English wiki has All-star team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Makarov.
Directoriate: Tretiak - Vasiliev - Paiement

I'm less concerned about these because Wikipedia is Wikipedia. I'd expect that site (no matte which language) to contain errors.
 

VMBM

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Sep 24, 2008
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Yes, it's possible there could be errors with any source. I don't know the answer.

One thing you could do, is contact - email, telephone, etc. - the office of the IIHF in Switerland, tell them different sources say different things, and ask them if there is any explanation. Maybe they would have a satisfactory answer, maybe they wouldn't, but it would be possible that they would have clear evidence (perhaps a photo of the 3 Directorate awards winners together, for example).

I have wondered earlier whether the fact that Kharlamov got more votes in the Media All-Star team voting has something to do with this, but then again, it was hardly unique that the Directorate best forward (or dman or goalie) did not get the most AST votes, so it should not be cause of such confusion. I guess I'm only 99.9 % or less sure (about it having been Martinec) at this moment. :huh:

It´s very confusing to me too. You´d expect that Czech sources would all be "in favour" of Martinec, but I´ve seen some that listed Kharlamov as the best F of the WHC. Example: the page from Slovakian hockey yearbook 1976:

Yep, and I didn't want to give the impression that all the Finnish sources (that I know) have Martinec as the winner; for example, a sports book called Huippu-urheilun maailma 2 has Kharlamov.
 

DN28

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Isn't there also a problem with Best Defenseman? Some sources say Waltin, most say Pospisil?

Wow, I didn´t even notice that...

Anyway, Karel Gut´s Malá encyklopedie ledního hokeje, published in 1985, has WHC 76 this: Holecek - Pospisil - Martinec. Same thing for Miloslav Jenšík´s Kronika českého hokeje, published in 2001: Holecek - Pospisil - Martinec.

WHC 79, Gut has Directoriate: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Paiement, Makarov; and All-star team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Makarov.

WHC 79, Jenšík has Directoriate different again: Tretiak - Vasiliev - Michailov (nothing more).
All-star team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Kharlamov
 

Namba 17

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Isn't there also a problem with Best Defenseman? Some sources say Waltin, most say Pospisil?
Futbol-Hokkey has Waltin as the best D-man of WC-76.
Number of voters for WC-76 all-stars in Futbol-Hokkey magazine match Slovakian hockey yearbook 1976 provided by DN28
 

VMBM

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WHC 79, Jenšík has Directoriate different again: Tretiak - Vasiliev - Michailov (nothing more).
All-star team: Tretiak - Bubla, Vasiliev - Michailov, Petrov, Kharlamov

Really? I've never seen Kharlamov mentioned as an WHC '79 All-Star. I've only seen Mikhailov-Petrov-Makarov - although both Mikhailov and Makarov were RWs (also at this tournament). I'm very close to giving up completely... :D
 

DN28

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Really? I've never seen Kharlamov mentioned as an WHC '79 All-Star. I've only seen Mikhailov-Petrov-Makarov - although both Mikhailov and Makarov were RWs (also at this tournament). I'm very close to giving up completely... :D

Yes, why would there be two RWs in All-star team? Especially since basically all other WHC All-star teams followed the logical RW-C-LW pattern...

At this point, only thing that would solve the issue is perhaps to email the IIHF about what´s going on there. Otherwise I don´t know..
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
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A little more speculation (but no answers I'm afraid!) on the contradictory information vis-à-vis 1976 World Championship.

I checked those Finnish book sources that I mentioned more closely, and Suuri jääkiekkoteos 1 (1979) and Leijonapolku Jääkiekon maailma (2014) have Holecek-Pospisil-Martinec as the Diretorate award winners, whereas Huippu-urheilun maailma 2 (also from 1979) has (Holecek-)Waltin-Kharlamov.
Looking at those other sources provided in this thread, every one of them also seems to follow the similar pattern, i.e. if they list Kharlamov as the winner of the Best Forward award, they also list Waltin as the Best Defenseman (and when Martinec is BF, Pospisil is BD), it's never Waltin-Martinec or Pospisil-Kharlamov, right?

So, clearly there are two different kind of original sources, the 'right' one and the 'wrong' one, and those later sources have followed one or the other. Although, like said, I feel less certain about it now, I'm still leaning towards (Holecek-)Pospisil-Martinec. Not that I have any strong arguments for it, but you'd think that, for example, Kimmo Leinonen (the author of Leijonapolku), who worked in the IIHF for a long time, has access to reliable IIHF source(s). Similarly you'd think that Karel Gut (DN28's post #39), having been Team CSSR's coach at the WHC 1976, would know what he is talking about - unless he would knowingly present false information (to make it look better for Czechoslovakia)!?
On the other hand, those sources here that are most contemporary (the Slovak hockey yearbook and Football-Hockey) have Waltin-Kharlamov... who knows?

I have no good theories really... could it be that besides the IIHF Directorate, there was some other 'party' who (ad hoc) gave their own awards at the WHC '76, and those have gotten mixed up? Or that IIHF Directorate presented 'A' and 'B' awards, just like you can sometimes see both 1st and 2nd All-Star teams being listed? (EDIT: Well, the latter could not be right, since every source seems to agree on Holecek being the Best Goalie.)

Not very strong, eh?
 
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Theokritos

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I checked those Finnish book sources that I mentioned more closely, and Suuri jääkiekkoteos 1 (1979) and Leijonapolku Jääkiekon maailma (2014) have Holecek-Pospisil-Martinec as the Diretorate award winners, whereas Huippu-urheilun maailma 2 (also from 1979) has (Holecek-)Waltin-Kharlamov.
Looking at those other sources provided in this thread, every one of them also seems to follow the similar pattern, i.e. if they list Kharlamov as the winner of the Best Forward award, they also list Waltin as the Best Defenseman (and when Martinec is BF, Pospisil is BD), it's never Waltin-Martinec or Pospisil-Kharlamov, right?

So, clearly there are two different kind of original sources, the 'right' one and the 'wrong' one, and those later sources have followed one or the other.

A fine observation!

How unlikely is it that the IIHF Directorate would hand all three awards to the same team (Holeček, Pospíšil, Martinec)? It has never happened before or afterwards:

1954: a Canadian, a Swede, a Soviet
1955: an American, a Czechoslovak, a Canadian
1956: an American, a Soviet, a Canadian
1957: a Czechoslovak, a Soviet, a Swede
1958: a Czechoslovak, a Soviet, a Canadian
1959: a Soviet, a Canadian, an American
1960: an American, a Soviet, a Swede
1961: a Canadian, a Soviet, a Czechoslovak
1962: two Swedes, an American
1963: a Canadian, a Swede, two Czechoslovaks
1964: a Canadian, a Czechoslovak, a Soviet
1965: two Czechoslovaks, a Soviet
1966: two Soviets, a Canadian
1967: two Soviets, an American
1968: a Canadian, a Czechoslovak, a Soviet
1969: two Swedes, a Czechoslovak
1970: a Fin, a Swede, a Soviet
1971: two Czechoslovaks, a Fin, a Soviet (four players honoured)
1972: a Fin, a Czechoslovak, a Soviet
1973: two Soviets, a Czechoslovak
1974: a Soviet, a Swede, a Czechoslovak
1975: a Czechoslovak, a Fin, a Soviet
1976: in question (either three Czechoslovaks or a Czechoslovak, a Swede, a Soviet)
1977: two Soviets, a Swede
1978: a Czechoslovak, a Soviet, a Canadian
1979: in question
1981: two Soviets, a Canadian
1982: two Soviets, a Czechoslovak
1983: two Soviets, a Czechoslovak
1985: two Soviets, a Czechoslovak
1986: two Soviets, a Swede
1987: a Czechoslovak, a Canadian, a Soviet
1989: a Czechoslovak, a Soviet, a Canadian
1990: two Soviets, a Canadian
1991: a Fin, a Canadian, a Soviet
1992: a Swede, a Czechoslovak, a Fin
1993: a Czech, a Russian, a Canadian
1994: two Canadians, a Swede
1995: two Fins, a Swede
1996: a Czech, a Russian, a Canadian
1997: two Swedes, a Canadian
1998: a Fin, a Czech, a Swede
1999: a Swede, a Czech, a Fin
2000: a Czech, a Fin, a Slovak
2001: a Czech, a Swede, a Fin
2002: a Russian, a Swede, a Fin
2003: two Canadians, a Swede
2004: an American, a Swede, a Canadian
2005: a Czech a Russian, a Canadian
2006: two Swedes, a Canadian
2007: two Russians, a Fin
2008: two Canadians, a Russian
2009: a Belarusian, a Canadian, a Russian
2010: a German, a Fin, a Russian
2011: a Swede, a Canadian, a Czech
2012: two Slovaks, a Russian
2013: a Swede, a Swiss, a Fin
2014: two Russians, an American
2015: two Canadians, a Fin
2016: two Fins, a Canadian
2017: two Russians, a German
 
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Theokritos

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On the other hand, those sources here that are most contemporary (the Slovak hockey yearbook and Football-Hockey) have Waltin-Kharlamov

That's the difference maker for me: those are contemporary sources. Football-Hockey literally reported one week after the tournament. They also list both awards cleanly and separately: first the All-stars with the voting result (Holeček 159 points, Kharlamov 124, Martinec 112, Pospíšil 111, Nový 71, Waltin 56), then the IIHF Directorate awards (goalie: Holeček, defenceman: Waltin, forward: Kharlamov).

I don't really see how they could have misrepresented anything here. And how could anyone have mistaken Mats Waltin for the award winner if the didn't actually won it? It's much easier to explain how Pospíšil could have been mistaken for the winner: he won the all-star poll among defenceman in a landslide. That's a not-so far-fetched source for possible confusion: "Pospíšil, clearly voted the best defenceman of the tournament...". The same for Martinec, best scorer of the tournament and highlighted as such e.g. by Football-Hockey and certainly by other media too.
 

VMBM

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Sep 24, 2008
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That's the difference maker for me: those are contemporary sources. Football-Hockey literally reported one week after the tournament. They also list both awards cleanly and separately: first the All-stars with the voting result (Holeček 159 points, Kharlamov 124, Martinec 112, Pospíšil 111, Nový 71, Waltin 56), then the IIHF Directorate awards (goalie: Holeček, defenceman: Waltin, forward: Kharlamov).

I don't really see how they could have misrepresented anything here. And how could anyone have mistaken Mats Waltin for the award winner if the didn't actually won it? It's much easier to explain how Pospíšil could have been mistaken for the winner: he won the all-star poll among defenceman in a landslide. That's a not-so far-fetched source for possible confusion: "Pospíšil, clearly voted the best defenceman of the tournament...". The same for Martinec, best scorer of the tournament and highlighted as such e.g. by Football-Hockey and certainly by other media too.

Well, maybe not. But that would also mean that the IIHF clearly have wrong information in their own 'history books'; i.e. those sources that could be called 'IIHF sources' have Pospisil and Martinec. Somebody should probably contact them about this. (I'm not volunteering!)

Maybe the IIHF Directorate originally named Waltin and Kharlamov, and it created some big controversy*, and so they backed down and made a new selection. The weakness of this theory is that if such an incident had happened, we would probably know about it (there would be a mention of it at least somewhere). Also it is very hard to imagine that the IIHF could be swayed to change their decision(s) like that, even if there was a general feeling that they got it wrong.

* Since Czechoslovakia was so clearly the best team of the tournament, and, like you said, the Media clearly favoured Pospisil in the AS voting, and Martinec clearly won the scoring title.
 
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Staniowski

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I sent an email to the IIHF head office in Switzerland yesterday, and received a reply today.

In the email, they said the Directorate Award winners for '76 were Holecek, Pospisil, and Martinec. The information, they told me, is listed in the official IIHF Guide and Record Book, which anybody can purchase online.
 
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Theokritos

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I sent an email to the IIHF head office in Switzerland yesterday, and received a reply today.

In the email, they said the Directorate Award winners for '76 were Holecek, Pospisil, and Martinec. The information, they told me, is listed in the official IIHF Guide and Record Book, which anybody can purchase online.

Thanks for the attempt. But I'm 99% sure they didn't bother to go their own archives and look up the original sources from 1976. So unfortunately, their answer doesn't really help us.
 
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Staniowski

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Well, it appears that "officially", it is Martinec. The Directorate Awards are give by the IIHF, so it would be difficult to imagine how their official records would be in error - especially for over 40 years.

Also, Kharlamov's HHOF page lists many of his accomplishments - including his WHC all-star team placements - but there is no mention of any WHC Best Forward award.

But it would be nice to know why these other sources say Kharlamov and Waltin.
 
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Namba 17

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The most interesting question now is not even who was the best F in 76. The most interesting question is why different sourses are so different:) There should be some logical explanation.
 

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