Something I don't get

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by John Flyers Fan, Oct 28, 2004.

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  1. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Any time a thread or a post comes up and the idea of replacement players or scabs is brought it's always immediately followed by the following quotes:


    "I'd love to watch the scabs/replacements .. it would be nice to see players that are playing for the love of the game, players that really care."

    "I can't wait to see players play with some heart again."

    "I'll be happy to pay to see these new guys bust their asses."

    ====================================================

    I'm not sure where this is coming from. I can understand about people being angry that there is no hockey, and upset at the players.

    I just don't buy the whole "players are only in it for the money" stance that so many seem to be taking.

    IMO the NHL players routinely bust their asses.
    Sacrifice thier bodies all the time.
    Would give up life and limb for a chance to lift the Cup.
    etc.
    etc.
    etc.

    IMO less than 1% of NHL players are "in it for the money"
     
  2. chara

    chara Registered User

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    It's probably a little more than that but I agree with the jist of what you're saying.

    This issue will be resolved by that love of the game. It will begin with guys like Commodore, Ferrence,etc. and trickle into the hearts of the stars. In the end, the system has to be overhauled and the players will realize that. They will do the right thing and still earn a pretty good living fulfilling their childhood dreams.

    Bob Goodenow and Gary Bettman don't understand that but guys who dreamt of hoisting the CUP do. In the end, the players are the only ones who can save the NHL and I believe,as a whole, they have the character to do it because Goodenow and Bettman certainly don't.

    So get your butts back from Europe and show us how much you care about the NHL. Don't let the lawyers/suits throw it all away.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2004
  3. swflyers8*

    swflyers8* Guest

    If this is true, then where are these guys? Why aren't they going to Trevor Linden, Goodenow or Saskin saying "get something done now, we want to play?"

    We all know there are 700+ players in the NHLPA. You mean, all of them are too scared to speak up and get the ball rolling? It's great that guys are speaking up, however, they shouldn't be telling us. They need to be telling the men in charge like Linden, Goodenow and Saskin. That's what they need to be doing. Someone with a lot of pull needs to get this started now before the NHL truly and completely dies. :teach:

    I know Brodeur has but I think it needs to be a bunch of guys with a lot of pull or influence or respected individuals.
     
  4. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I'm not talking about on the ice effort, etc. etc., which has nothng to do with bargaining.

    NHLPA bargaining has NOTHING to do with effort, desire etc. etc. on the ice.

    ==============================================

    Do you expect tham to just cave in to all the owners demands. It's a give and take, from BOTH sides of the table.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2004
  5. petrobruin

    petrobruin Registered User

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    You're right you dont get it

    Carry on


    Petr
     
  6. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    So then explain it to me.

    You honestly don't think that the players are giving effort, that they're out there just going through the motions collecting a paycheck.
     
  7. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    Yes, and they get paid extremely well to do it. And they still would if the league had its way.

    You say they would give up life and limb for a chance at the Cup. Well right now, they're not even willing to give up a few of their millions of dollars for a chance at the Cup.

    If they cared enough, or at least came out and said that they care, like some have, they'd be playing for that chance right now.
     
  8. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I'm not arguing that they're not paid extremely well.

    The players have offered to help scale back salaries, but no they aren't about to agree to a 35% paycut. That's not something I fault them for.

    Both the owners and the players need to give to come to an agreement.
     
  9. swflyers8*

    swflyers8* Guest

    John, you misinterpreted what I wrote. What I meant is that there has to be some players that do want to play for the Cup or just want to play. I'm not saying they have to cave in to the owner's demands, just get something going. For someone to say it's pretty darn stupid to be just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Get some dialogue going, try a different avenue with negotiations. Something new, you know what I mean?
     
  10. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I agree wholeheartedly that it's a joke that the two sides haven't spoken in almost 2 months.

    My only point was to those people that seem to be implying that NHL players are just in it for the $$$$ and are just going through the motions.

    I don't see how anyone can watch an NHL playoff game and have those thoughts.
     
  11. petrobruin

    petrobruin Registered User

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    You are right about the playoffs , they do bust there asses but over a 82 game schedule .these guys take nights off.

    I believe that guarenteed contracts and guarenteed raises has something to do with that .

    I don't know that the NHl will get guarenteed contracts eliminated but I like Bill Watters idea about a 1/3 buy-out and the ability for the team to take a player to arbitration to decrease his sallery based on performance .This should be done each year of the contract if deemed necessary by the team.


    I believe some of the stars in the league who sign long term contracts become less motivated to maintain there intensity.

    ie: jagr,yashin,etc etc ,insert player here
    Anyway i can tell you first had about a future hall of famer who still plays today and will not break a sweat in more than half the games he plays and will pout if he doesnt get the right line mates.

    I know he doesnt do everything and anything to win.

    Sorry to burst your bubble about hockey players but they are just like you and I,Some are inhearently hard working people and others are not.

    Petr



    Petr
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2004
  12. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    I think hockey players are the hardest working out of the big four (football has a fifth of the games.) I do think scabs/replacements would aprechiate the opportunity more. An ECHL guy getting a better salary for a while, getting to play in a large city and officialy being an NHLer I think is great for them.
     
  13. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I couldn't disagree more.

    Are they're a few players just going throught the motions ??? Sure, and you'll find that anywhere, but IMO those players number in the single digits.
     
  14. loudi94

    loudi94 Master of my Domain

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    250+ players are currently playing in leagues that are paying pennies compared to their NHL salaries. That makes no sense to me. If they were willing to play for so much less in other leagues, do it in the NHL.
     
  15. ehc73

    ehc73 Registered User

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    Markets are sorta different there. Not everyone can pay millions for a player. Some can, like the Russian Super League, others can't, like the German leagues. So it really depends where you go. Ilya Kovalchuk is currently making more than he's getting paid with the Thrashers.

    I agree with JFF that there are really few players that just take nights off. Guys who want to play don't take nights off, because otherwise they'll be watching from the pressbox. Unless the coach is a pansy, in which case they get away with it.
     
  16. mcphee

    mcphee Registered User

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    I think players are harder working than ever before. With the attention to detail in today's coaching and film breakdown, there isn't a lot of coasting going on. The level of play isn't as entertaining but I think that's more due to the fact that the rules haven't evolved to the skills and size of the players. I don't know how fans can go on and on with how they wish the players had the passion of other generations, when it isn't fact based. The old stories of Gordie Howe asking for a team jacket in lieu of a signing bonus did nothing other than paint patsy on his forehead. Some players coast, some disappear at crunch time, that's always been the case. Are players less fan friendly ? I don't think so.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Registered User

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    Less than 6-8 players?
     
  18. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    IMO yes.
     
  19. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Without a doubt, it's become a 12 month sport. Player may take 2-3 weeks off from the time their season ends, and then it's right back to the weight room, excercise bike etc.

    Do you think Phil Esposito, Gump Worsely, Bernie Parent, and Guy Lafleur were working out all summer long ???

    Hell no they were drinking beer. Not to mention after the games, practices etc. etc.

    =============================================

    Another thing I don't get.

    People seem to hold it against athletes in general when they make alot of money.

    How dare Joe Sakic get $8 million per year or Derek Jeter $17 million per year.

    Yet the same people seem to find it perfectly normal that Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, or Jim Carey make $20 million per movie ... or Mick Jagger and Bruce Springsteen can make $40 million per record tour.
     
  20. EJsens1

    EJsens1 Registered User

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    Although it is your opinion, I find it very naive that you would think that. I suppose you can twist it anyway you want, but seeing players hold-out for money is one example, and there are more then 6-8 players who have done that. I know you'll argue back saying, "its not the samething or its comparing apples and oranges", but wouldn't they accept lower offers if it wasn't about the money just so they can report back to play hockey???
     
  21. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Holding out for more money is not the same as lollygagging around the ice, which is what some here seem to imply.

    Do I like it when players hold-out ?? Most times no, and a player like Alexei Yashin was completely out of line. That however is a different point than the one I've brought up.

    My points was that 99% of all NHLers put it all on the line every night.

    My point isn't that the players would play for free, but that these players bust their ass on a regular basis, and are extremely hard working etc. etc. etc.
     
  22. EJsens1

    EJsens1 Registered User

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    Well, you are living in a dream world. NHL players don't give 100% effort every night. I find it hard to believe that anybody in any profession gives a 100% effort everytime they show up into the office or onto the ice, whatever the situation is. I realize there is a difference between giving 100% and not playing well, but I go to about 30 Sens games a year and you can clealry see not everyone on both teams not busting their balls all the time. Maybe its different in Philly. :dunno:
     
  23. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I'll disagree, and I'm also a season ticket holder and get to 30 regular season and all the playoff games as well. Like you said there is a difference between playing poorly and not giving it 100%.

    Lalime letting in those two brutal goals in game 7 against the Leafs doesn't mean he was half assing it, but that he let in two brutal goals at the worst possible time.

    Also the one thing that most needs to be fixed in the NHL IMO is the schedule. Three games in four night should be prohibited. Oftentimes a team playing that 3rd game in 4 nights, looks like dogs, not because they're not trying, but because the tank is empty, and they're playing a fresher team/
     
  24. EJsens1

    EJsens1 Registered User

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    We could use many examples...like Martin Havlat not busting his balls back to cover Jeff Friesen in the 2003 Eastern Conference Finals in game 7. He goes 100%, there is a good chance that he ties Friesen up. Since he didn't, low and behold, Friesen scores. Should we say that he still gave 100% when he clearly did not???
    I agree that sometimes schedules are tough for the players, but on the flip side, you could also argue that since they aren't 100%, players just aren't going to try as hard. Its hard to tell they if they are exhausted but are still giving 100%, but since the other team is "fresher", their 100% is stronger. That is kind of confusing I think, but I think you get my drift.
     
  25. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    If no mistakes were made by players the low scores you currently see would be cut in half.
     
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