Some teams against the idea of replacements?

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by CGG, Mar 18, 2005.

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  1. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    Haven't seen this mentioned around here before, but Bob McKenzie brings up a good point. What happens if teams don't want to use replacement players? If 29 teams vote for and 1 vote against?

    Any bets on who the team is? I would say Toronto, they are in fact owned by one of the most powerful unions in the country. The teachers can't be too happy about the thought of using scabs during a labor dispute.

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  2. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

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    Im pretty damn sure more then 1 team would be against replacements.
     
  3. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    Me too, but this is the only evidence I've seen so far that would suggest that there is (at least) 1 team against the idea. I don't think you can have a league where 25 teams are using replacements and 5 go on hiatus.
     
  4. grego

    grego Registered User

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    It is possible to have the league exist for a period of time with a few of the teams not operating.

    It is not a position you would want the league to be in, ( even worse then a full league full of replacement players if that is possible ). But there is nothing legally preventing them from resuming NHL play without a few teams.
     
  5. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    NO SCABS FOR GRETZKY

    If the NHL decides to do the unthinkable next season, don't expect to see The Great One smiling.

    "I don't like the idea of replacement players," said Wayne Gretzky when asked about that possibility if the lockout is still in effect. "I hope it never comes to that."

    The idea stemmed from the last week's NHL Board of Governor's meeting in which commissioner Gary Bettman expressed the importance of starting next season on time in October by any means necessary and refused to rule out the use of replacements.

    Gretzky, who would be forced to sit back and watch as managing partner of the Coyotes, further protested the notion. "The sport needs its [Brian] Leetchs and [Matt] Sundins out there," Gretzky said. "Those are the type of players that sell this sport."

    Read ON : http://www.nypost.com/sports/40877.htm

    So Gretzky will comply but he would not be in Favour ..
     
  6. Phoenix has been thought of as a hawk team throughout the entire process, I wonder how many managing partners they have like Gretzky who might frown on the idea of scabs. You have to figure, if they're against icing scabs then they're pressuring Bettman to get something done
     
  7. nyrmessier011

    nyrmessier011 Registered User

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    If dissent about replacements has leaked to the media, imagine the argument behind closed doors. The owners you hear about that hate the idea of replacements, hate it more then anyone thinks. This is the most important issue of late and the owners obviously want to come off as unified. If the media is learning of some owners who say they will not house replacements and also hearing about those who hate replacements, they must be less unanimous then we think. If there is no deal, look for April 20 to be a day when true colors start to come out in the owners. I think that too many big market owners are fed up with having no reason to be apart of this lockout. I would guess that replacements will not happen because of the influence of a dozen or so owners who will say, listen I'm fed up, this lockout could have been over for me in December, Gary, work a deal because I have done enough for you other guys. Replacements is how the NHL begins to break because as the idea approaches, the owners begin to disagree more and more amongst the group.
     
  8. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    In the end, the NHL may very well decide to just continue the lockout if enough owners consider replacement players too ill fitting for their palate, even if it makes them look silly after the NHL's stated position that there will be NHL hockey in October.

    It's on the NHLPA's side of the ping pong table right now. Do they outright give the finger to these two proposals, or do they come back with their own proposal...either a revision of the NHL's idea, or something altogether new?
     
  9. mr gib

    mr gib Registered User

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    they wait it out till the end of april
     
  10. it's more complicated than that.

    The NHL has guaranteed its sponsors and advertisers a season. so they need to go forward with something. the fact that some teams will not ice scabs means the idea is already looking disastrous. It's not a viable option for the league, I believe this has already been discussed behind closed doors, hence the renewed pressure on Bettman to get something done.
     
  11. Jester

    Jester Registered User

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    Snider... Illitch... guys in very bad places to bring in replacement players due to the cities ties with unions.
     
  12. Boltsfan2029

    Boltsfan2029 Registered User

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    Are you talking about the two Canadian teams which can't use replacement players?

    Or are you saying there are teams which are going to simply refuse to play if the season goes forward? If so, which teams, and how are they going to work this?

    I keep hearing people says teams are refusing, but no one can name the teams or sources for the information, I'm very curious to know if this is just a rumor or if it's actually substantiated somewhere...
     
  13. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    The quote from McKenzie is all I've got, but he makes it sound pretty clear that one team at least is dead set against using replacements. Not too much of a stretch to think that there are a few other teams out there thinking the same way, as mentioned Detroit, Philly, Toronto, NY Rangers. Teams with heavy union ties or union fanbase.

    Does that mean these teams will refuse to play with replacements? Who knows. So I guess it's more or less rumour right now, but definitely interesting to see how this develops. There's a lot more pressure right now on Bettman to reach a deal quickly than the players, since the players don't start losing paycheques again until October.

    How many people would still support the scab league if their favourite team suspended its operations, either because of Canadian labor laws or because they refuse to use replacements?
     
  14. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    How many teams were "dead-set" against the last CBA deal?

    How many teams were "dead-set" against taking linkage off the table?

    How many teams were "dead-set" against Bettman offering $42.5 M?

    They'll ice replacement players if the league chooses to go that route because no one team or small group of teams gets to go against the BOG once the entire group has decided upon the direction they'll take.
     
  15. ScottyBowman

    ScottyBowman Registered User

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    I can't see Illitch in Detroit bring in replacement players. He has too much class to do something like that.
     
  16. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    I think Toronto would have to be the Same ..The Teachers Union that makes up a big portion of MLSE would be engaging in UNION BUSTING tactics by using replacement players ..

    This puts a lot of organizations in a tough spot ..
     
  17. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    Yep, sure, good strategy. You want a replacement league, therefore ignore any and every potential problem that exists in order for that to happen. Labor problems, immigration issues, teams who refuse to use scabs, not an issue since the BOG will vote in favor.

    Can you imagine Mr. Ilitch telling thousands of angry Red Wings fans "Sorry, I didn't want to bring in scabs, but some guys in New York and Edmonton and Raleigh-Durham told me I had to. By the way, don't forget to renew your season tickets."

    You already had Edmonton threatening to "suspend operations" if they didn't get a cap deal they like, why wouldn't some of these teams refuse to play and "suspend operations" until an actual CBA is reachedto avoid using scabs? Then what? The NHL starts with scabs and without 1 or 2 or 9 of its teams playing. Sounds like a great plan.
     
  18. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    and Vice Versa .. Detroit being Motor City and so heavy into Unions that the work force may reject the Idea and I have a hard time believing they would support Replacement players ... What happens next time their Union Contract expires .. Lot less sympathy from the public if they themselves did not support the NHLPA and its union ..
     
  19. Frenzy31

    Frenzy31 Registered User

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    Ok lets think about this for a moment. Season tickets for RW games are sold out almost yearly since early 90's. But w/ the cost of a package, i doubt many union members are buying them anyways.

    Again, I don't see many making a big deal about scabs. They were used in football and they can be used in the NHL.
     
  20. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    Typical New York Post. The headline is completely false, and totally misrepresents what Gretz said.

    He also didn't like the idea of a lockout, or cancelling the season. But you do what has to be done.
     
  21. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

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    I wonder if this would come into play in this day and age .
     
  22. Weary

    Weary Registered User

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    It's an interesting question. Here's the Detroit Lions attendance during the strike year as well as three years before and after.

    [pre]Year Total Avg.[/pre]
    ---- ------- ------
    1984 457,238 57,155
    1985 504,613 63,077
    1986 432,429 54,054
    1987 190,758 27,251*
    1988 296,607 37,076
    1989 392,296 49,037
    1990 521,597 65,200

    * = strike year


    That's a pretty sever reaction that took about three years to return to normal. Would Ilitch risk something similar? I know a lot of folks who would love to see Detroit become a "small-market team."
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2005
  23. vanlady

    vanlady Registered User

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    You also need to add Ottawa and Vancouver to that list. Ottawa is 70% union because it is a goverment city. British Columbia per capita is the most unionized province in the country, and with the election in May the goverment is not going to do anything to risk at least a minority government.

    Here is another thought. Save On and Telus are both large sponsors of more than one hockey team. They are both currently in there own labor disputes, and both are 60-80% unionized are they willing to risk support of a scab league?
     
  24. Icey

    Icey Registered User

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    You obviously have never been to a game in Detroit. Its all union workers and blue collar workers.
     
  25. grego

    grego Registered User

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    Most people I know that are in a union would have little trouble with scabs in the NHL.

    Most union workers that I know, don't consider the NHLPA a real union. It is viewed commonly as a Millionaires club and not a union to many people.

    It could be an issue for some people but I would be shocked to see unions telling people to not go to games, they would likely not state a view on the situation.
     
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