Some details on the NHL offer

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Brent Burns Beard

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Thunderstruck said:
We aren't deciding, the market is.

NHLPA members have gotten a crash course in the true value of their services without the cushy CBA inflating their worth.

Not sure they've awoken to the reality of the situation yet, but some appear to be putting 2 and 2 together and have realized how radically their situation has changed.
if the market was deciding, they NHLPA would have agreed. the NHL though is trying to engineer an artificial market and the players arent interested.

its clear the member of the NHLPA will not agree to the type of deal the NHL is peddling over and over. clearly the NHL hasnt gotten a grasp of what the market is for the member of the NHLPA to wear NHL jerseys.

this is fine, but it just means we wont see NHL hockey with NHLPA members for a while. if thats ok for the NHL owners, then so be it.

however, i fail to see how it benefits any of the NHL fans to not have NHL hockey with NHLPA members.

dr
 

Brent Burns Beard

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eticket said:
Owners will stay out till the players take the deal owners can afford. Yes, its all around the 54% deal, because thats what the game can afford. The longer the players wait, the more they lose. The owners can afford to wait forever. Its that simple. Its a shame they didnt understand what most people did a long time ago. They could have had a better deal and saved the money they lost last year. The question is, are they dumb enought to do it again?
why do you believe that 54% is all the league can afford ?

most business's typically spend up to 70% of their revenue on product/production, how come the NHL is only able to spend 54% ?

dr
 

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eticket said:
The owners can afford to wait forever. Its that simple. Its a shame they didnt understand what most people did a long time ago. They could have had a better deal and saved the money they lost last year. The question is, are they dumb enought to do it again?

You don't believe that, do you???
You believe the owners can wait forever????

RIght.
Those owners don't have any banks, taxes or anything else to pay right??

In 1980, Mike Illitch bought the Wings for $8 Million.
It's worth over $200 Million today.
Not to mention all investments Illitch was able to win, in part, because of the respect and trust he earned with his Red Wings investment.

If the NHL sits out another year. Or more, Illitch's $200 Million franchise takes a huge hit.
See if he can leverage that franchise to get anymore bank loans.

See if Detroit taxpayers pony up for a new downtown arena for a ghost of a hockey team.

See how much Fox Sports Detroit is willing to pay for the rights to broadcast red wings games.

See how many corporate sponsors say, hey, we wanted to put our money with you, but you weren't here to take it, so now the Lions, Pistons and Tigers have our money.

See how many fans will be willing to pay for tickets.

The NHL owners have a lot on the line here, too. They can't let this thing go on for ever.

If you don't see that, then you'd best get yourself a new set of eyes.


Now maybe the owners in Nashville and Carolina have franchises that aren't worth spit.
So maybe they've got nothing to lose.

But the NHL is recklessly playing chicken right now.

The longer this game goes one, the more likely it is that the NHL NEVER recovers.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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DR said:
if the market was deciding, they NHLPA would have agreed. the NHL though is trying to engineer an artificial market and the players arent interested.

the owners are trying to create a more realistic market. the previous CBA was the artificial one. Hence, the situation we're in now.
 

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Newsguyone said:
You don't believe that, do you???
You believe the owners can wait forever????

RIght.
Those owners don't have any banks, taxes or anything else to pay right??

In 1980, Mike Illitch bought the Wings for $8 Million.
It's worth over $200 Million today.
Not to mention all investments Illitch was able to win, in part, because of the respect and trust he earned with his Red Wings investment.

If the NHL sits out another year. Or more, Illitch's $200 Million franchise takes a huge hit.
See if he can leverage that franchise to get anymore bank loans.

See if Detroit taxpayers pony up for a new downtown arena for a ghost of a hockey team.

See how much Fox Sports Detroit is willing to pay for the rights to broadcast red wings games.

See how many corporate sponsors say, hey, we wanted to put our money with you, but you weren't here to take it, so now the Lions, Pistons and Tigers have our money.

See how many fans will be willing to pay for tickets.

The NHL owners have a lot on the line here, too. They can't let this thing go on for ever.

If you don't see that, then you'd best get yourself a new set of eyes.


Now maybe the owners in Nashville and Carolina have franchises that aren't worth spit.
So maybe they've got nothing to lose.

But the NHL is recklessly playing chicken right now.

The longer this game goes one, the more likely it is that the NHL NEVER recovers.

The NHL will recover. Maybe it will take awhile, but the owners don't care about that. The important thing is that when it comes back they have something that is worth something. The Olympics are once every 4 yrs. Never stopped it from being worth more the next time around. If hockey wasnt played between 1980-83 would it matter today? Nah. The owners arent going to take a deal that isnt fair to them.
Not when they can wait and have it.
 

me2

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John Flyers Fan said:
http://www.nypost.com/sports/46179.htm

For according to individuals with knowledge of the complex proposal that featured floating thresholds based on overall payroll levels and tax rates designed to escalate dramatically for clubs repeatedly in the top third-to-half of the league spenders, teams with annual payrolls in the $33-35M range would have faced $200M in payroll taxes over the six-year term of the CBA


Is that $200m total for all of the offenders? Its hard to tell from Brook's confused wording, that seems to be how Brook's has worded it?

6 years, 10 teams being taxed, $200m total = $3.3m/year/team?

This is bad? How?

Maybe its meant to be $200m per team? Maybe tax doubles every year or something for repeat offenders? Which is reasonable. For someone with inside knowledge he's deliberately obscuring the truth.


" But then, now that this is merely about numbers and no longer about philosophy — now that the league has embraced the notion of a tax-based system after saying they would never ever agree to such a structure — it's only a matter of time."

Of course the NHLPA has already rejected any tax based system that acts as a partial cap. Round we go again.
 

me2

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DR said:
if the market was deciding, they NHLPA would have agreed. the NHL though is trying to engineer an artificial market and the players arent interested.

Neither side wants a free market. If the NHLPA wanted a free market it would decertify and be done with it.

Right now we have a vegetable wholesaler cartel (players) vs a restuarant cartel. One on one.

Vegetable wholesalers are buying at $1/ton and selling at $10,000/ton to the restaurant.

Restaurants only want to pay $7000/ton.

Vegetables like players have short shelf lives.

Right now, the wholesalers are selling 1/2 their vegetables for $1000 (current market value) and 1/2 are going rotten on the shelf.

One on one game of chicken.
 

HF2002

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DR said:
except no one would pay $0.50 to watch you do it ... where as if you pay the other guy the $4.00 he is asking, there is a much greater chance people will pay $6.00 to watch it.
There's a lot of people out there who are buying much cheaper tickets to watch 'inferior' hockey.
 

mooseOAK*

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Newsguyone said:
Think about it.
The NHL is saying this:
Take our piece of crap offer, because if you don't, we'll starve the game, and our next offer will have to be worse.

The players are saying: we dare ya.

And what is happening?

The league's negotiation strategy could spell doom for the NHL.

Yeah, the players are losing out. Big time.
But they're not losing anything they already have. They're losing money they still hadn't earned.

If the NHL owners lose this fight, they might potentially lose their entire investments in the game.

Course, those billionaires and their accountants will find a way to screw the rest of us in bankruptcy court and with the IRS.

Oh, the horrible billionaires! However, without them the players wouldn't have anyone to buy those franchises so that they could earn their millions.

How did owners who spent way more money than they should have on NHL players suddenly turn into miserly you-know-whats?
 

SENSible1*

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NHL fires back.

Looks like Daly wasn't too happy with the leaked NHLPA document Larry wrote his column from.

Daly contends that the Union's spin on this week's negotiations was inaccurate, and its "analysis" and communication of the NHL's new proposal to the players "grossly slanted."

"Its clear that the Union spent Thursday night inventing an "analysis" that was not intended to meaningfully assess the impact of our proposal, but rather to create a worst case impact scenario that could never happen in the real world. Their so-called "analysis" was sheer fiction, and internally inconsistent in its assumptions and conclusions. It was absolute garbage. Its sole purpose to mislead the players couldn't have been more evident," Daly concluded.

Bobby better hope the players don't feel like he's intentionally misleading them or he'll be looking for work after the meeting at the end of the month.
 

craig1

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DR said:
except no one would pay $0.50 to watch you do it ... where as if you pay the other guy the $4.00 he is asking, there is a much greater chance people will pay $6.00 to watch it.

if the NHL wants to sell NHL hockey, they will need NHL calibre hockey players. otherwise, who will pay NHL ticket prices to watch USHL calibre hockey.

dr

Attendance may suffer at first, but eventually, the caliber of players will be back to the same levels, and freely accepting of the new salary levels.

I don't see too many kids now who don't plan on playing pro hockey in the future based on the fact that they may only make $1 million per year, instead of $2 million per year (all based on present day dollar denomination). I'm sure that it won't be a deterrent for them at all.

Will the NHL lose a player here and there to Europe. Probably. Some players have been saying for years that they want to finish their careers at home. In the end though, the long term effect (5-10 years out) is less than nominal.
 

me2

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Thunderstruck said:
Looks like Daly wasn't too happy with the leaked NHLPA document Larry wrote his column from.

Maybe Larry doesn't actually get to see any of the details and just printed what he was told too. LOL poor Larry, either he's a mushroom and doesn't know any better, or he's deliberately hiding the facts.
 

txomisc

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DR said:
then i guess you will mow the lawn your self.

dr
Since I can't afford to pay you what you want, the lawn simply won't get mowed. Now you could have been reasonable and mowed the lawn at a slightly lower price but you chose to be heart headed and now the front lawn is overrun.

meanwhile you are off mowing the neighbors lawns for one dollar
 
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