So, what's going on with McCarron..??

[Ezpz]

It wasn't just his numbers that were concerning though. He was horrid defensively and wasn't physically engaged last year.

 

[Dominator13]

Regardless - Montreal is a deep team..if he ends up being only a third liner....that's not necessarily a bad thing. I still think he has top six upside though if he puts it all together.

Could you imagine what a Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-McCarron line could do if they meshed well?

 

[Mathletic]

I think people who defended McCarron in the last year+ can enjoy his good start to the season and the strong season that should come. Just saying that what we're seeing now is pretty much what I expected last year. You can blame his teammates, ice-time and whatnot for last season, but when it's all said and done, McCarron didn't outproduce the ice-time he was given nor his linemates. I think the early excitement is a testament to how low the bar was set last year. It wasn't just the numbers it was also the way he played. I mean he was beat in corners by 5'10" 180 players.

Also, I don't think it takes a PHD in statistics to understand that the more you progress in your junior career, the less meaningful stats become. I think we'll all agree pretty quickly on what is more impressive between a 15 year old who puts up the same numbers as a 20 year old in junior. Doesn't mean the numbers aren't relevant this year, it only means that it will take a lot more than a PPG to have him project as more than a complementary bottom 3 to 6 player.

That said, don't want to be too negative. If criticizing McCarron last year meant we were infidels who saw only life's dark sides, can't imagine what it's like providing a different point of view when things are actually going well for him.

 

[JAVO16]

I think people who defended McCarron in the last year+ can enjoy his good start to the season and the strong season that should come. Just saying that what we're seeing now is pretty much what I expected last year. You can blame his teammates, ice-time and whatnot for last season, but when it's all said and done, McCarron didn't outproduce the ice-time he was given nor his linemates. I think the early excitement is a testament to how low the bar was set last year. It wasn't just the numbers it was also the way he played. I mean he was beat in corners by 5'10" 180 players.

Also, I don't think it takes a PHD in statistics to understand that the more you progress in your junior career, the less meaningful stats become. I think we'll all agree pretty quickly on what is more impressive between a 15 year old who puts up the same numbers as a 20 year old in junior.

That said, don't want to be too negative. If criticizing McCarron last year meant we were infidels who saw only life's dark sides, can't imagine what it's like providing a different point of view when things are actually going well for him.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Just saying that what we're seeing now is pretty much what I expected last year.

Exactly what I was going to say.

If he had been producing like this last year (slightly over a point per game), we would have viewed it as good news, but ultimately basically what we were expecting after the camp he had.

So I am not sure why the situation should be viewed that differently a year later?

 

[Scintillating10]

Leave it to one of his biggest critics right off the bat last season now to suddenly preach for everyone to wait and see. It was okay to denigrate him in late October last season..but don't praise him for playing well early this season, now we're supposed to 'wait and see'.

He's playing on the top line with one of the best junior players in the country..you really think his start is an aberration? I kept saying last year that the largest obstacle he was facing in regards to putting up decent point totals was ice time and opportunity because Hunter goes with veterans...and the team was stacked at forward last season. I repeated this again and again...but folks who were critical of him ignored this....no excuse for not jumping into the OHL and producing from Game One regardless of the circumstances.

The naysayers would point to his point total and age and declare matter of factly that this proved he had no offensive upside..as history has shown that players who don't produce at 18 don't produce in the NHL. No regard was given to any other factores...such as London's veteran depth or McCarron being a rookie in the best junior league in the world...it was etched in stone that he had no upside and was well on the road to being a bust. Every frst round pick from 1-30 regardless of draft depth or style of play/size has to be a top six forward or top three dman...even though math tells us it is an impossibility.

Now that he's producing...well wait and see..and even if he does..well..he's supposed to because he's 19 and a first round pick. Perfect. I am going to enjoy the backpedalling on this board this season because there is going to be plenty of it....the hasty overreaction to his rookie season was ludicrous...it was said again and again to give him time..now that he's playing well...."too early"...even though writing him off last season was also "too early". Hypocrisy at its finest.

Was expecting him to produce this year. McCarron's last year of junior eligibility. He's playing against mostly 17-18 year olds or players his age who are not NHL material. Everybody older than him have graduated. He's got quite an advantage. If he didn't produce at PPG be a red flag. I think he is 2 years away(in Hamilton) from NHL. But should be good third liner, career year get up to 2nd line.

 

[c3z4r]

Was expecting him to produce this year. McCarron's last year of junior eligibility. He's playing against mostly 17-18 year olds or players his age who are not NHL material. Everybody older than him have graduated. He's got quite an advantage. If he didn't produce at PPG be a red flag. I think he is 2 years away(in Hamilton) from NHL. But should be good third liner, career year get up to 2nd line.

No they haven't. There's plenty of junior players that have been drafted in his year or before that and are still playing in the OHL. Hell, on his team alone there's Domi (drafted same year), Rupert (drafted a year before), and Bergman (same birth year and 8 months younger than McCaron but drafted in 2014). Those are of course only the players in the same age range as McCaron, because there's plenty of other Knights that have been drafted in 2014 and are still with the team.

I don't have time to check for all OHL teams but I'm sure there's plenty of cases like him around, i.e. drafted in 2013 or 2012 and still playing in a junior league.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Providing a "different point of view"? my..you doomsayers flatter yourselves. Yes..calling him a bust 20 games into his OHL career is a "different point of view" all right...as was the derision, ridiculous predictions, etc. that we were all subjected to last season. Summing it up with the words "different point of view" sure wraps it up in a nice tidy package for you doesn't it?

I knew damn well the negative Nellies would simply try chalking it up to a different viewpoint. Nice try. It is being proven quite clearly that you all acted idiotically, hastily and obtusely...and are now being hypocritical...deal with it.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Yep..as expected the "well he should be producing" excuse for being hasty and way overboard with the criticisms last year are already coming out. For the Negative Nellies..it's win-win as I said. If he produces..well he was supposed to....no admitting that they may have overreacted last year. Funny...he can produce this season because he's 19..but there's no way he couldn't produce last season despite being a rookie. There can only be excuses for when he does produce..not for when he doesn't. Predictably for the doomsayes it only goes one way with the flawed logic.

i will be taking leave of this thread permanently as it is bound to get ridiculous from this point on...just as it was ridiculous last season. I'll get back to you hen he's in the NHL......as I'm sure the naysayers will remain in full force until that point. For about the 100th time since joining HF a decade or so ago the rash doomsayers should have been taught a lesson..but they won't stop or learn form it..it won't sink in. When your IQ hovers around 80 I suppose it can't be expected to....I really do expect too much.

 

[Andy]

Older or not, if McCarron maintains his production, he will be scoring at a pace expected of more mature players in junior and that is only a good thing. I don't get the argument against his production. McCarron HAS to produce year in my opinion to demonstrate that he still has some offensive ability.That he has so far is definitely not a negative.

 

[otto bond]

I haven't much of his games but happy he's doing good. For me, a prospect like Mccaron needs to grow in confidence at this level. Stats be one thing but impact on the games is what I would look for in this player. One thing I'm sure of is that he's got good NHL potential. He's got a good set of tools.

 

[Shutdown]

Was expecting him to produce this year. McCarron's last year of junior eligibility. He's playing against mostly 17-18 year olds or players his age who are not NHL material. Everybody older than him have graduated. He's got quite an advantage. If he didn't produce at PPG be a red flag. I think he is 2 years away(in Hamilton) from NHL. But should be good third liner, career year get up to 2nd line.

It's not his last year of junior eligibility. Next year is. And as other posters mentioned, a lot of guys go back to the junior for their 19 year season as most are ineligible for the AHL. He's playing against guys his age.


Another 2 assists for him tonight so far.

 

[Mathletic]

Providing a "different point of view"? my..you doomsayers flatter yourselves. Yes..calling him a bust 20 games into his OHL career is a "different point of view" all right...as was the derision, ridiculous predictions, etc. that we were all subjected to last season. Summing it up with the words "different point of view" sure wraps it up in a nice tidy package for you doesn't it?

I knew damn well the negative Nellies would simply try chalking it up to a different viewpoint. Nice try. It is being proven quite clearly that you all acted idiotically, hastily and obtusely...and are now being hypocritical...deal with it.

Like I pointed out on numerous occasions, I never called him a bust nor did any other serious poster. I think it's easier to simply disqualify one's statement by making an exaggeration of what was said. For the most part, I think I mostly stated the obvious last year. Even you made fun of Gaston Therrien before the 2013-2014 season because he thought McCarron would take time to adapt to the OHL and you thought he'd come in and dominate the league.

That being said, even if McCarron would have started the year and played this way the whole year wouldn't have changed my opinion much. It really comes as no surprise that a 6'6" 250 guy can come into a junior league and dominate along the boards and throw some solid checks. The surprise really was that he couldn't do that on a regular basis.

As for his offensive production, even if you're quick to point out that the Hunters don't give it easy to rookies. You simply have to look at Marner on the same team. The kid was 16 years old, came in at 5'9" 160 and earned a spot on the top line simply by playing well. I doubt Hunter forced himself to keep McCarron on the bottom lines in order to simply respect the older guys on the team. Reality was that McCarron never forced anyone to play him regularly last year. In fact, I don't know any coach who wouldn't want a 6'6" 250 guy on his top 2 lines.

Also, McCarron's good start doesn't change what I think of him. From an offensive point of view, I don't think he'll provide more value than players like Winnik who are available on the FA market every summer for less than 2 million a year. Washington got Brouwer in the prime of his career for a late first round pick. I still don't see the point in using a first round pick on someone who might become a complementary player just because he's 6'6" 250.

A good season from McCarron will have me thinking he's more likely to be a bottom line guy compared to thinking he could bust quick if he continued on the path he was last season. Nothing drastic will change for me. I'm not making excuses and changing my mind, far from it. As a comparison, I don't think Mantha proved you anything by scoring a bunch of goals last year. You knew he could score in junior hockey. A good season wasn't going to change much for you. Well, same goes for McCarron in my case. Showing he can dominate physically in junior was what I expected last year and putting up some numbers as a 19 year old is not something unheard of though it's clearly better than not posting any.

 

[Stoneburg]

The whole issue reminds me of Tinordi's time in London, a good number of posters questioned his future given his performance there, but look at him now.

We can only hope McCarron follows a similar path.

 

[c3z4r]

An interesting fact about McCaron. The Knights started the season with 1 Win and 5 Losses, but since he came back from injury, their record has been 5Wins and 1 Loss.

 

[Scuba-Steve]

And another assist.. 10pts in 6 games so far!

 

[Shutdown]

And another assist.. 10pts in 6 games so far!

Too many secondary assists. Not impressive.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Now he gets a fluke goal (it seems).

Mitch Brown ‏@MitchLBrown 31s32 seconds ago
#Habs Michael McCarron now awarded a goal. A shot from behind the goal line found its way in. 1G 3A 4P tonight.

If he keeps maintaining a 1.50 PPG or better, he's legit.

 

[Whitesnake]

As I stated numerous times, and as there's TONS of examples to prove it, calling a guy a bust after 1 year is dumb. Like thinking we could deal a guy because of a bad WJC etc.

Couple of things I think we had a right to do as far as Big Mac season last year. We had a right to be dissapointed. Out of every prospects chosen 1st and 2nd round and maybe even later than that, he had the worst offensive season of them all.

Also, a couple of things we had a right to be concerned about. As far as we could go, Mac was never an offensive machine. Last year where he was a PPG was 2009-2010, Bantam Major AAA league. I think that at one point, it has to be a concerned as I doubt that he was picked to solely be a bottom 6 player but they picked him as the upside that they are seeing is a big guy, that could fit in a top 6 spot, could hit immensely and fight well. Now as far as things he had to perfect to be in that role is his balance as you can hit but still need to be on your feet enough to not lose your position. And he probably needs to perfect the art of fighting as well, yet for me, is totally secondary. And personnally, while I do understand the whole "big man growing" takes time to adjust, while I will never know that myself......I will still believe that while it's true, in a junior league, you still need to somewhat dominate your peers. They still should have more problems dealing with you, than you should have problems dealing with yourself.

Now, whether it had to be expected that he'd be much better this year....I'm sorry, but it's not the point. He could have not be able to. He could have been the "flop" that some were saying he was even if it made no sense to call him that. He could have been unable to deal with the pressure to be a 1st round pick, could have not be at ease in a role of the big guy that needs to do with he was asked to do, could have just fold under the pressure...as EVERYBODY expected him to be much better and great.....he could have not been able to. So sorry, but for me, it's GREAT news that he's doing great so far. I'm not "waiting and seeing". I LOVE to see him do great and take that for what I'm seeing. Let's just enjoy how he delivers right now please. Whether it means he will be a top 3 player scoring 50 goals is totally irrelevant. We are not there yet. We are just enjoying a great start of a season of a kid who had quite some offensive problems last year.

 

[puckeater]

I'm pretty sure he won every face off today, 4 pts, +5. What's not to like? Sure it was against a rookie goalie and both teams playing their 3rd in 3 days, but he played as well as you could expect. It's good to see.

 

[Hoople]

Now he gets a fluke goal (it seems).

Mitch Brown ‏@MitchLBrown 31s32 seconds ago
#Habs Michael McCarron now awarded a goal. A shot from behind the goal line found its way in. 1G 3A 4P tonight.

If he keeps maintaining a 1.50 PPG or better, he's legit.

YOU determine what he needs to do if he is legit?

That is a little bit arrogant, dont you think?

It sounds as if you are disappointed that McCarron is credited with a goal. The poster above you is now qualifying points (maybe he should go to the Juniors stats over the years and count up secondary assists for all players).

Agenda driven posters are the norm here.

Maybe you should start a Reway (or whomever you are a fan of) thread and gush glowingly over them. Obviously McCarron is not doing it for you.

And on an aside, damn glad to see big Mike starting the season off with a bang.

 

[Whitesnake]

Oh and enough with secondairy, to primary to tertiary assist. Sometimes the secondary assist has way more merit to the primary. Sometimes the guy who has no assists made the whole play. It even itself out. If you are implicated enough to get assists, you deserves to get those.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Who knew being patient works...

Glad his game is getting more complete.

 

[puckeater]

Secondary and tertiary assists are often earned from caused turnovers. McCarron caused a handful of them today.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Leave it to one of his biggest critics right off the bat last season now to suddenly preach for everyone to wait and see. It was okay to denigrate him in late October last season..but don't praise him for playing well early this season, now we're supposed to 'wait and see'.

He's playing on the top line with one of the best junior players in the country..you really think his start is an aberration? I kept saying last year that the largest obstacle he was facing in regards to putting up decent point totals was ice time and opportunity because Hunter goes with veterans...and the team was stacked at forward last season. I repeated this again and again...but folks who were critical of him ignored this....no excuse for not jumping into the OHL and producing from Game One regardless of the circumstances.

The naysayers would point to his point total and age and declare matter of factly that this proved he had no offensive upside..as history has shown that players who don't produce at 18 don't produce in the NHL. No regard was given to any other factores...such as London's veteran depth or McCarron being a rookie in the best junior league in the world...it was etched in stone that he had no upside and was well on the road to being a bust. Every frst round pick from 1-30 regardless of draft depth or style of play/size has to be a top six forward or top three dman...even though math tells us it is an impossibility.

Now that he's producing...well wait and see..and even if he does..well..he's supposed to because he's 19 and a first round pick. Perfect. I am going to enjoy the backpedalling on this board this season because there is going to be plenty of it....the hasty overreaction to his rookie season was ludicrous...it was said again and again to give him time..now that he's playing well...."too early"...even though writing him off last season was also "too early". Hypocrisy at its finest.

here here! some are just beyond stubborn on this board. they don't like the pick at first because they want somebody else so they just stick to their guns for some ludicrous reason. People have the narrative stuck in their heads and would rather stick with it because it's easier.

I think you underrate his passing ability somewhat. One of the better playmaking big men around IMO...and early returns this season (5 assists in 5 games) would appear to support that. Play him with skilled players and he's going to put up some points at any level. He's got a good wrist shot too..it's heavy. Needs to keep working on his release. Most of his goals are going to be the garbaghe variety anyway..hard to move him from the crease area. He's shown an ability to raise the puck in close.

Regardless - Montreal is a deep team..if he ends up being only a third liner....that's not necessarily a bad thing. I still think he has top six upside though if he puts it all together.

I've only seen highlights but he's definitely got skills. I actually think he could play on any line. It's not like you could play him with pluggers and he could make a first line out of them but I can't see anything in his game that would stop him from being a fantastic complimentary player in the top 6.

And man I can't believe he's actually the center on that line! That's pretty freaking awesome.