So I'm in Tampa. It's made me realize what a mess our marketing is.

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Clicked on thread hoping for pics. OP did not disappoint.

I've been one of many on HF harping about marketing since I joined the site. Nice to see a comparison case from our expansion bros.

Is it really a fair comparison?

Residents of Tampa have a lot of competition for sports/entertainment dollars, than we do in Ottawa/Gatineau.

MLB, NFL, NHL, NCAA division 1 & division 2 sports teams, plus a number of Minor league & semi-professional teams and about 4 MLB teams hold their spring training camps in the Tampa Bay region.

Residents of Tampa grow up playing Baseball, Football and many other sports and hockey is not as ingrained in their culture as it is in Ottawa.

So I see the logic in the Lightning marketing to the extent that they do, but how is that a fair comparison to Ottawa?

This shouldn't make a hill of beans difference. I could just as easily say that with the lack of competition, it's more reason for the Sens to plaster the city.

A few posters on busses doesn't do it. The only time we get anything remotely close to what is pictured in the OP is when we're like 3 rounds into the playoffs.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Is it really a fair comparison?

Residents of Tampa have a lot of competition for sports/entertainment dollars, than we do in Ottawa/Gatineau.

MLB, NFL, NHL, NCAA division 1 & division 2 sports teams, plus a number of Minor league & semi-professional teams and about 4 MLB teams hold their spring training camps in the Tampa Bay region.

Residents of Tampa grow up playing Baseball, Football and many other sports and hockey is not as ingrained in their culture as it is in Ottawa.

So I see the logic in the Lightning marketing to the extent that they do, but how is that a fair comparison to Ottawa?

Yet they routinely fill up the building even with less than competitive teams as was previously relayed, This only accents how poorly our marketing or lack thereof is.

 

[Stylizer1]

You would think that the Sens could just go to 10 owners of buildings in the downtown core and let them split a seasons tickets package for 4 for space to advertise. Seems so simple.

 

[DanyHeatley]

you dont have to go as far down as tampa bay to see sports banners and promotions like that. it’s everywhere in toronto for the leafs, raptors and jays. it’s crazy. i might have seen daniel alfredsson’s face here once and it wasn’t even sens related, it was about mental health (good on you alfie for being an ambassador) but i do agree that our sports marketing team has failed to do their job here in ottawa.

 

[bert]

I am pretty sure that Ottawa Senators organization is not allowed to advertise in Ontario or Quebec due to the Leafs and Habs owning all rights to advertising in this hemisphere.

Sarcasm?

Is it really a fair comparison?

Residents of Tampa have a lot of competition for sports/entertainment dollars, than we do in Ottawa/Gatineau.

MLB, NFL, NHL, NCAA division 1 & division 2 sports teams, plus a number of Minor league & semi-professional teams and about 4 MLB teams hold their spring training camps in the Tampa Bay region.

Residents of Tampa grow up playing Baseball, Football and many other sports and hockey is not as ingrained in their culture as it is in Ottawa.

So I see the logic in the Lightning marketing to the extent that they do, but how is that a fair comparison to Ottawa?

You cant be serious. The sens cant sell any tickets and you dont think they should market? [mod]

 

[BondraTime]

Sarcasm?

Unfortunately no

 

[DaveMatthew]

Sarcasm?
You cant be serious. The sens cant sell any tickets and you dont think they should market? How can anyone be this stupid.

Well you see, it's the responsibility of the citizen's of Ottawa to fund the lifestyle of our supposed "billionaire" owner by blindly supporting his business. In fact, we should all just mail him checks and not even go to the games, that way he can turn down the heat and lights and save on hydro. That's what real fans would do.

It's certainly not fair that Eugene is expected to create a good product that people actually want to buy, or heaven forbid, advertise it!

 

[coladin]

In 2009/2010, Tampa had the 5th worst attendance in the NHL, averaging 15,497 fans per game.

Vinik bought the team in 2010. Did he come in and rip on the fanbase? Did he talk about how he'd have to move the team if fans didn't buy tickets?

Nope.

He invested in his management. He invested in hockey ops (his first big hire? Steve Yzerman). He invested in marketing. And he invested in community outreach.

What happened? Fans invested in the team.

2008/09: 16,497
2009/10: 15,497
Vinik takes over
2010/11: 17,268
2011/12: 18,468
2012/13: 19,056
2013/14: 18,612
2014/15: 18,823
2015/16: 19,092 (sellout)
2016/17: 19,092 (sellout)
2017/18: 19,092 (sellout)

And it's not just because of on-ice performance, since the Lightning missed the playoffs in 3 of the last 7 season.

And only 37M in gate receipts? Must be some pretty cheap seats. You would think that a significant increase must be on the way. Good on them and nice to see the fans passionate about their team.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

While you make a fair point about Tampa, when attendance is struggling up here you'd think that maybe some improved marketing would help.

I'm pretty sure that the vast Majority Senator fans know the Team, the Players and when the Home games are being played, and that sort of stuff.

What is needed is an incentive based marketing approach for the games remaining in a very sub-par season.

Reduced Parking prices, reduced concession prices or some sort of promotion that we've seen in other markets that could work here .......... like a theme night, or a reduced ticket price for next season with a purchase of a ticket for a game this season.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You would think that the Sens could just go to 10 owners of buildings in the downtown core and let them split a seasons tickets package for 4 for space to advertise. Seems so simple.

I just don't see the point of advertising the fact that there is a NHL team that plays in Ottawa, with a sign in the downtown core.

Do you know anyone who does not know the Senators exist?

There are ads for up coming games in both local Papers, and I hear these same games advertised on the radio. What would a poster of Mark Stone, on a building in downtown do to increase game day ticket sales?

I agree something new has to be tried, by surely there is much more hockey knowledgeable market in Ottawa than in southern US cities with Franchises.

I remember a bus ad, in Cincinnati about 20 years ago, that I saw while on a business trip that had a picture of a pork chop, a quarter chicken and player for the local minor league team, with the caption " Canadians, the other white meat", used to promote that team.

 

[jbeck5]

The only good thing about our marketing is our social media guy creates some great content under the dire circumstances.

All that you are seeing in Tampa requires money, and that's where the problem is.

The owner is poor, so our marketing will be poor, our front office is gonna be poor, our scouting is poor, and that leaves us to hire cheap coaches. Top to bottom, this organization is just poor.

You gotta wonder how expensive it is to set up a few posters around malls, and big flags around the city...were talking peanuts when it comes to NHL momey.

If someone drove through Ottawa they would have no idea the sens played here.

 

[BatherSeason]

There are ads for up coming games in both local Papers, and I hear these same games advertised on the radio. What would a poster of Mark Stone, on a building in downtown do to increase game day ticket sales?

Who reads local papers these days?? Radio? TSN1200 does not have nearly as many listeners as it once did (self-inflicted, but that's another story)

The Ottawa Senators advertise mostly on buses and in bus shelters. Beautiful for an organization that's building is quite a long bus trip away from most parts of the region. This is a major fail.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Sarcasm?



You cant be serious. The sens cant sell any tickets and you dont think they should market? [mod]

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

I never said they should not market, I just pointed out that an advertising approach in Tampa Bay is not necessarily the same approach that Ottawa should take. These are two different markets, and one size does not fit all.

Besides a few Redblack games, and the two local Junior teams, there is not much more in the terms of live sporting events that the Senators compete with locally.

This is not the same thing in Tampa Bay, and they've geared their marketing approach to fit their market, and Ottawa should do the same.

Just a little common sense.

 

[NorthCoast]

And only 37M in gate receipts? Must be some pretty cheap seats. You would think that a significant increase must be on the way. Good on them and nice to see the fans passionate about their team.

Two things.

1) Vinik didn't have keep any of the team debt when he bought it. Imagine the marketing campaign the sens could run each year with the money (10-15 mil per year) that is currently spent on debt interest.

2) Tampa Bay doesn't make money. They run a loss on operating income. Vinik happily pays the 5-10 mil in annual losses and then uses the losses as a tax write off. He has also seen the team value go from 93 million at purchase to 390 mil. The arena is also the center piece of a billion dollar waterfront redevelopment that he will cash in on.


Does all this sound familiar? The key difference between Vinik and Melnyk (okay other than mental stability) is that Vinik has the cash flow to support a team that loses money because he is going to get it back down the road.

This is not a market issue or an attendance issue. Melnyk used to pay off the loses when the team brought in less than today. But he doesn't have the resources, or worse is not willing to invest them in the team.

 

[pzeeman]

I just don't see the point of advertising the fact that there is a NHL team that plays in Ottawa, with a sign in the downtown core.

Do you know anyone who does not know the Senators exist?

There are ads for up coming games in both local Papers, and I hear these same games advertised on the radio. What would a poster of Mark Stone, on a building in downtown do to increase game day ticket sales?

I agree something new has to be tried, by surely there is much more hockey knowledgeable market in Ottawa than in southern US cities with Franchises.

I remember a bus ad, in Cincinnati about 20 years ago, that I saw while on a business trip that had a picture of a pork chop, a quarter chicken and player for the local minor league team, with the caption " Canadians, the other white meat", used to promote that team.

I don't think it's about building awareness so much as trying to build excitement, and a desire to attend. Turn it back into a place to see and be seen, or show that you're providing a really good value.

You're right that a huge poster of Mark Stone in the Byward Market, by itself, is not going to do that. There absolutely needs to be innovation as well. But you do build some excitement with even passive but professional branding in the right spots.

1. Turn slow games into a family night by packaging ticket, parking, food, drink for a group.
2. Bring in some innovative promotions, like maybe a local microbrew tasting night (ticket+4 half-pint samples)?
3. Have student nights sell tickets and run buses from uOttawa, Carleton, UQO, Algonquin, Heritage, Cegep.... (Don't give up if there isn't a huge uptake on the first one.)
4. Use the partnership with Canadian Tire, and minor hockey - give ticket discounts when buying equipment for kids, for instance.
5. Agressively build the brand on the Quebec side with rink and house league sponsorships. Doesn't have to be a Sensplex effort.

I'm sure there are lots of other ideas, way better than this. But this is the kind of investment you need to put in.

 

[coladin]

Two things.

1) Vinik didn't have keep any of the team debt when he bought it. Imagine the marketing campaign the sens could run each year with the money (10-15 mil per year) that is currently spent on debt interest.

2) Tampa Bay doesn't make money. They run a loss on operating income. Vinik happily pays the 5-10 mil in annual losses and then uses the losses as a tax write off. He has also seen the team value go from 93 million at purchase to 390 mil. The arena is also the center piece of a billion dollar waterfront redevelopment that he will cash in on.


Does all this sound familiar? The key difference between Vinik and Melnyk (okay other than mental stability) is that Vinik has the cash flow to support a team that loses money because he is going to get it back down the road.

This is not a market issue or an attendance issue. Melnyk used to pay off the loses when the team brought in less than today. But he doesn't have the resources, or worse is not willing to invest them in the team.

Good points, although I may venture on their boards to see what playoff and renewal pricing is like. I know Nashville is heading for a steep increase. But that is the right way to do it, isn't it? Team is good, tickets become scarce, prices go up. Instead our team sucks, plenty of tickets and...prices go up?

Vinik is doing a great job, but even as a wealthy individual he has an endgame to stuff his pockets, nothing wrong with that! Should be nice to see the edn result

 

[Zorf]

Good points, although I may venture on their boards to see what playoff and renewal pricing is like. I know Nashville is heading for a steep increase. But that is the right way to do it, isn't it? Team is good, tickets become scarce, prices go up. Instead our team sucks, plenty of tickets and...prices go up?

Vinik is doing a great job, but even as a wealthy individual he has an endgame to stuff his pockets, nothing wrong with that! Should be nice to see the edn result

Would be nice if our owner took the same end game and stuffed his pockets.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Who reads local papers these days?? Radio? TSN1200 does not have nearly as many listeners as it once did (self-inflicted, but that's another story)

The Ottawa Senators advertise mostly on buses and in bus shelters. Beautiful for an organization that's building is quite a long bus trip away from most parts of the region. This is a major fail.

Well I for one read both Daily Papers, and listen to a number of local radio stations every day ...... and I see, and am aware of upcoming Senator games, because to those ads.

I don't take OC Transpo, so am unaware of the ads you encounter.

I see a number of social media ads as well, so I don't see the logic of a sign, on the side of a building downtown, as suggested, as the missing link in the Senator's attendance issues.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I don't think it's about building awareness so much as trying to build excitement, and a desire to attend. Turn it back into a place to see and be seen, or show that you're providing a really good value.

You're right that a huge poster of Mark Stone in the Byward Market, by itself, is not going to do that. There absolutely needs to be innovation as well. But you do build some excitement with even passive but professional branding in the right spots.

1. Turn slow games into a family night by packaging ticket, parking, food, drink for a group.
2. Bring in some innovative promotions, like maybe a local microbrew tasting night (ticket+4 half-pint samples)?
3. Have student nights sell tickets and run buses from uOttawa, Carleton, UQO, Algonquin, Heritage, Cegep.... (Don't give up if there isn't a huge uptake on the first one.)
4. Use the partnership with Canadian Tire, and minor hockey - give ticket discounts when buying equipment for kids, for instance.
5. Agressively build the brand on the Quebec side with rink and house league sponsorships. Doesn't have to be a Sensplex effort.

I'm sure there are lots of other ideas, way better than this. But this is the kind of investment you need to put in.

You make some good suggestions, and these are the only game day promotions I could find.

Ottawa Senators - Season Seats

Contests And Promotions

 

[jbeck5]

I just don't see the point of advertising the fact that there is a NHL team that plays in Ottawa, with a sign in the downtown core.

Do you know anyone who does not know the Senators exist?

There are ads for up coming games in both local Papers, and I hear these same games advertised on the radio. What would a poster of Mark Stone, on a building in downtown do to increase game day ticket sales?

I agree something new has to be tried, by surely there is much more hockey knowledgeable market in Ottawa than in southern US cities with Franchises.

I remember a bus ad, in Cincinnati about 20 years ago, that I saw while on a business trip that had a picture of a pork chop, a quarter chicken and player for the local minor league team, with the caption " Canadians, the other white meat", used to promote that team.

You can tell youre not in the know when it comes to marketing.

Why does McDonald's advertise? Surely everyone knows they exist. Because it works.

Advertising wouldn't be to inform people that there is a team here. It would be to generate a buzz and excitement around the team.

There was much more fan interaction when I was a kid cheering for lemieux,jagr, and Francis of the penguins because it made me a sens fan.

So how are we going to get the little Crosby and mcdavid fans in the city like the sens instead, like they did with me, 20 years ago?

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

You can tell youre not in the know when it comes to marketing.

Why does McDonald's advertise? Surely everyone knows they exist. Because it works.

Advertising wouldn't be to inform people that there is a team here. It would be to generate a buzz and excitement around the team.

There was much more fan interaction when I was a kid cheering for lemieux,jagr, and Francis of the penguins because it made me a sens fan.

So how are we going to get the little Crosby and mcdavid fans in the city like the sens instead, like they did with me, 20 years ago?

How you ask?

Another Senators Charity Carnival

It would be super corny nowadays, but it's totally what cemented my fandom as a kid.

 

[CanadianHockey]

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

I never said they should not market, I just pointed out that an advertising approach in Tampa Bay is not necessarily the same approach that Ottawa should take. These are two different markets, and one size does not fit all.

Besides a few Redblack games, and the two local Junior teams, there is not much more in the terms of live sporting events that the Senators compete with locally.

This is not the same thing in Tampa Bay, and they've geared their marketing approach to fit their market, and Ottawa should do the same.

Just a little common sense.

Three points:

1. You're a Sens fan and resident of Ottawa, so of course you know the schedule, where to look for info, and that we have a team. 'Awareness' is something that doesn't even strike you as a requirement. There are plenty of tourists and foreign dignitaries in Ottawa who aren't aware of those things, and advertising would help attract them to the games.
2. Your argument that Ottawa lacks competition from other sports franchises is narrow. Tampa's metro area is three times the size of Ottawa's, so you've got a larger potential consumer base to offset the fact that there's more competition among sports teams. Even still, the Senators (and Bolts) are competing against the entertainment industry at large, not just other sports teams. We've got a plethora of museums and art galleries, Parliament, the Rideau Canal, bars downtown, and the NAC, on top of the RedBlacks, 67s and Olympiques.
3. As others have mentioned, advertising isn't just about building awareness, it's about building hype. Even if the team is shit, if you can market it as entertaining, with a great atmosphere, good food, etc you can draw in an audience.

 

[Sensung]

Two things.

1) Vinik didn't have keep any of the team debt when he bought it. Imagine the marketing campaign the sens could run each year with the money (10-15 mil per year) that is currently spent on debt interest.

2) Tampa Bay doesn't make money. They run a loss on operating income. Vinik happily pays the 5-10 mil in annual losses and then uses the losses as a tax write off. He has also seen the team value go from 93 million at purchase to 390 mil. The arena is also the center piece of a billion dollar waterfront redevelopment that he will cash in on.


Does all this sound familiar? The key difference between Vinik and Melnyk (okay other than mental stability) is that Vinik has the cash flow to support a team that loses money because he is going to get it back down the road.

This is not a market issue or an attendance issue. Melnyk used to pay off the loses when the team brought in less than today. But he doesn't have the resources, or worse is not willing to invest them in the team.

Great post, so tnuoC won't touch it...

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I wonder if the 60 people in The Senators marketing department are reading this?

 

[RedWhiteBlackGold]

Two things.

1) Vinik didn't have keep any of the team debt when he bought it. Imagine the marketing campaign the sens could run each year with the money (10-15 mil per year) that is currently spent on debt interest.

2) Tampa Bay doesn't make money. They run a loss on operating income. Vinik happily pays the 5-10 mil in annual losses and then uses the losses as a tax write off. He has also seen the team value go from 93 million at purchase to 390 mil. The arena is also the center piece of a billion dollar waterfront redevelopment that he will cash in on.


Does all this sound familiar? The key difference between Vinik and Melnyk (okay other than mental stability) is that Vinik has the cash flow to support a team that loses money because he is going to get it back down the road.

This is not a market issue or an attendance issue. Melnyk used to pay off the loses when the team brought in less than today. But he doesn't have the resources, or worse is not willing to invest them in the team.

Basically Tampa Bay Lightning is just a hobby for him and a tax write off, kind of like Melnyk when Biovail was his primary source of income and the Sens were his tax write off.

The key difference sounds like Vinik either has a legitimate business making him money or he just hasn't got caught for accounting fraud like our big boss did.