Confirmed Trade: [SJS/BUF] E.Kane for D. O'Regan, 2019 cond. 1st/2nd round, 2019/2020 cond. 4th/3rd round [MOD 274]

eviohh26

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This is because they're not as poorly situated as those not following them would like to believe. This team no longer runs solely on the back of Joe Thornton anymore. Martin Jones is a starter quality goalie in his prime. Their blue line with Burns, Vlasic, and Braun are all at points in their careers where they still have many years left. Joakim Ryan, Dylan DeMelo, Brenden Dillon, and Tim Heed are 24 and 27. They're fine in that regard. Their forwards need more depth but Couture has plenty of years left in him if he wants to stay after next season. They have a lot of good young talent in guys like Meier, Labanc, Donskoi, and Tierney. Hertl is probably their best player at driving play. All those guys are top six or potential top six quality players under 25. People look at the Sharks and look at Joe Thornton being as old as he is and don't bother to look beyond that. Even if they decided to go into a rebuild, they'd need one elite talent and they'd be right back where they are because they have enough talent at all ages to put around that guy. That's precisely why they can't because they have too many good young players that are just good enough to keep the team playoff competitive.
I think you are being kinda optimistic.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I think you are being kinda optimistic.

About what? What's optimistic about Jones being a starter level goalie in his prime? That's what he is. What's optimistic about believing that Burns, Vlasic, and Braun have many years left? They're 32, 30, and 31 respectively. They each easily have at least four years left in them and probably more. Ryan is a top four d-man now as a 24 year old. Dillon is solid in his role at 27. DeMelo and Heed are the question marks as the 3rd pairing RHD but that's not a huge void. The young forwards are producing. Tierney is probably a 20 goal scoring 3C this season. Meier will probably score 20 this season in his second year. Hertl drives play at an impressive rate while being a 2nd line producer. Donskoi is a little disappointing on the production side but his puck skills are obvious. Labanc is producing solidly at a second line rate. They have too much talent and too much young talent to go with too much veteran talent to rebuild anytime soon. Thornton retiring or leaving is not going to put this team into a rebuild on its own at this point. Yeah, they don't have much in way of talent in their pool but this team really never has in the Thornton era. They all almost immediately become NHL contributors.
 
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Stephen

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This is because they're not as poorly situated as those not following them would like to believe. This team no longer runs solely on the back of Joe Thornton anymore. Martin Jones is a starter quality goalie in his prime. Their blue line with Burns, Vlasic, and Braun are all at points in their careers where they still have many years left. Joakim Ryan, Dylan DeMelo, Brenden Dillon, and Tim Heed are 24 and 27. They're fine in that regard. Their forwards need more depth but Couture has plenty of years left in him if he wants to stay after next season. They have a lot of good young talent in guys like Meier, Labanc, Donskoi, and Tierney. Hertl is probably their best player at driving play. All those guys are top six or potential top six quality players under 25. People look at the Sharks and look at Joe Thornton being as old as he is and don't bother to look beyond that. Even if they decided to go into a rebuild, they'd need one elite talent and they'd be right back where they are because they have enough talent at all ages to put around that guy. That's precisely why they can't because they have too many good young players that are just good enough to keep the team playoff competitive.

Replacing a Joe Thornton isn't exactly an easy thing to do. But yeah, sure.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Replacing a Joe Thornton isn't exactly an easy thing to do. But yeah, sure.

Yeah, sure but they've been playing without him for over a month now and they haven't fallen off a cliff either. I'm not saying they're going to be Cup favorites but they can compete for a playoff spot without Thornton with the talent they have. They're not going to be forced to rebuild if Jumbo retires or leaves. That's just not going to happen and the makeup of their team will prevent such a thing.

Mini Joe is also 34 this year.

Pavs isn't exactly an irreplaceable player either. People need to understand that just because players could leave doesn't mean that the team won't have options beyond them. Thornton makes 8 million and Pavelski makes 6 million on the cap. 14 million can get you a combination of good players to fill in. People criminally underrate the surrounding talent on this team. They will be able to survive without Thornton and Pavelski and be a team that competes for a playoff spot especially when most of their offense runs through Burns at this point.
 

Stephen

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Yeah, sure but they've been playing without him for over a month now and they haven't fallen off a cliff either. I'm not saying they're going to be Cup favorites but they can compete for a playoff spot without Thornton with the talent they have. They're not going to be forced to rebuild if Jumbo retires or leaves. That's just not going to happen and the makeup of their team will prevent such a thing.

From a purely hypothetical management point of view, I'd rather a team in that position try to unearth a David Pastrnak type with a mid to late first rounder and find a cornerstone than to rent a guy for a few months.

In terms of stumbling on the next Jumbo or Mini Joe, of course you could do it. But the Sharks also acquired those guys in 2003 and 2006 so it might be a while. Cap space is great too if there's worthwhile players to buy at the right price...

At the end of the day, I'm not a Sharks fan, I'm not a Western Conference fan and I'm not concerned how their long term future unfolds, so they can trade 1st rounders and picks and prospects for whomever they want for a playoff spot or whatever their goals are. Nor am I trying to spoil your party.
 

Pinkfloyd

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From a purely hypothetical management point of view, I'd rather a team in that position try to unearth a David Pastrnak type with a mid to late first rounder and find a cornerstone than to rent a guy for a few months.

In terms of stumbling on the next Jumbo or Mini Joe, of course you could do it. But the Sharks also acquired those guys in 2003 and 2006 so it might be a while. Cap space is great too if there's worthwhile players to buy at the right price...

At the end of the day, I'm not a Sharks fan, I'm not a Western Conference fan and I'm not concerned how their long term future unfolds, so they can trade 1st rounders and picks and prospects for whomever they want for a playoff spot or whatever their goals are. Nor am I trying to spoil your party.

Well, if they do end up just renting Kane then they are still in a position to unearth a David Pastrnak because if Kane walks where the Sharks don't win a Cup, they're only giving up a 2nd round pick and not a 1st.

As for your points on Jumbo and Pavelski, that just proves that you're not actually looking into anything else beyond that because they've drafted and traded for other talents since then. Hertl is a huge part of the team's future that they drafted not long ago. They brought in Burns a little while ago. They traded for Jones a few years ago. There is more than just the Joes on this team that are capable of helping the team stay competitive moving forward. I'm just saying. Anyone who believes the team rides or dies with the Joes isn't keeping up well enough on the team to make such a statement because they don't.
 

hockfan1991

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This teams core has slowly been turned over to the youth, and they have all taken advantage of their opportunities at different times of the season.

Another misconception is that were old and need to go for rebuild if you look up on any site we are the fifth oldest team in the league. But it’s really misleading. as Floyd mentioned most of our great players are in their 20s or early 30s they do have a young forward core coming up.

And after this year Ward will be gone. Hansen will be gone. And possibly Martin too just with those players who played very little for us all year. And have little impact at this point.

Just by subtracting those players we become the eighth youngest. That’s not even subtracting Jumbo Joe. Which I think will be back but even including him on our roster we are top 10 youngest team. Sharks will be just fine And are better off than quite a few
 

WSS11

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Theo Von

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In two games playing on the same line.. him and Pavelski have a combined 6 assists, 3 goals, 9 points, +8..... in TWO games.

That’s incredible.
 
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TomasHertlsRooster

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In two games playing on the same line.. him and Pavelski have a combined 6 assists, 3 goals, 9 points, +8..... in TWO games.

That’s incredible.

They have more than twice as many even strength points as the combined goal total of both of the enemy teams.

Good luck tonight ;)
 

Canuck Luck

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In two games playing on the same line.. him and Pavelski have a combined 6 assists, 3 goals, 9 points, +8..... in TWO games.

That’s incredible.
That’s good but bro small sample size much. If you look at any top line in the league, I’m sure you can find a similar 2 game stretch. It’s not that incredible at all. Stamkos and kucherov had 8 points combined in 1 game for example.

Kaner only has 3 points in 2 games. If he can keep that up for the rest of the season, that’ll be impressive
 

Theo Von

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That’s good but bro small sample size much. If you look at any top line in the league, I’m sure you can find a similar 2 game stretch. It’s not that incredible at all. Stamkos and kucherov had 8 points combined in 1 game for example.

Kaner only has 3 points in 2 games. If he can keep that up for the rest of the season, that’ll be impressive

You must really love the abbreviation “bro”.. you got it in your username and you just called me it, bro!
 

Dr Quincy

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About what? What's optimistic about Jones being a starter level goalie in his prime? That's what he is. What's optimistic about believing that Burns, Vlasic, and Braun have many years left? They're 32, 30, and 31 respectively. They each easily have at least four years left in them and probably more. Ryan is a top four d-man now as a 24 year old. Dillon is solid in his role at 27. DeMelo and Heed are the question marks as the 3rd pairing RHD but that's not a huge void. The young forwards are producing. Tierney is probably a 20 goal scoring 3C this season. Meier will probably score 20 this season in his second year. Hertl drives play at an impressive rate while being a 2nd line producer. Donskoi is a little disappointing on the production side but his puck skills are obvious. Labanc is producing solidly at a second line rate. They have too much talent and too much young talent to go with too much veteran talent to rebuild anytime soon. Thornton retiring or leaving is not going to put this team into a rebuild on its own at this point. Yeah, they don't have much in way of talent in their pool but this team really never has in the Thornton era. They all almost immediately become NHL contributors.


Yeah it doesn't quite work like that.

Girardi easily had four years left and probably more.
Seabrook easily had four years left and probably more.
Weber easily had four years left and probably more.
Staal easily had four years left and probably more.
Kronwall easily had four years left and probably more.

And none of the young Fs you've listed are top line centers. So there's that.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Yeah it doesn't quite work like that.

Girardi easily had four years left and probably more.
Seabrook easily had four years left and probably more.
Weber easily had four years left and probably more.
Staal easily had four years left and probably more.
Kronwall easily had four years left and probably more.

And none of the young Fs you've listed are top line centers. So there's that.

Yeah except in a lot of cases it does. Weber may still have a few years left so I don't know why you're counting these people out. No GM is going to plan for players entering their 30's to tank in a set amount of time. They're going to keep them until they feel it makes sense to move on from them. There's nothing optimistic about those three players being able to continue playing at their level for the next couple years at least. As for the young guys, there's a good chance that if Tavares doesn't sign here and Thornton at some point moves on, the Sharks will be fine with Hertl as the top center. We're not all that worried about the young talent coming up. But like I said, they're not in as poor of a position moving forward as a lot would like to believe. They're still going to be a playoff competitive team after Thornton leaves.
 

Sharksrule04

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Kane continues to look great. Loving this deal. Whether he re-signs or not I can't see a negative to this deal. O'Regan will likely never be an impactful NHLer, a 4th round pick is basically a toss up, and a late first round pick in 2019 or 2nd rounder pick is fine to give up when the return is a top level power forward. Worst case scenario we gave up a pick likely to be in the late 40's early 50's of 2019, a 4th round pick and a mid level NHLer/high level AHLer for renting a Top line winger for 19 games and he signs elsewhere. I'll take that worst case for the upside of this deal which is we just landed a 25-30 goal scorer entering his prime while only losing a mid to late first round pick, a 4th and O'Regan.
 

Snippit

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Dec 5, 2012
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Steal of the deadline so far.

If Kane re-signs and the Sharks miss the playoffs next year, does the 2019 1st become a 2020 1st?
 
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SabresSharks

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I described the acquisition of Kane as a worthwhile gamble for the Sharks. If he keeps playing the way he has been in 13 Sharks' games, I'll revise that description to "sheer genius on the part of Doug Wilson".
 
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Jumptheshark

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for those patting Wilson on the back--keep that in mind if Kane is resigned and does shit next year--he is trying to prove a point right now and when he is done doing that.... then we will see what it means
 

Pinkfloyd

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for those patting Wilson on the back--keep that in mind if Kane is resigned and does **** next year--he is trying to prove a point right now and when he is done doing that.... then we will see what it means

And if Kane doesn't do anything of the sort and the team wins with him then what? Will anyone say that the fact that the teams he was playing for not being all that good may have contributed to some of the locker room issues that he was around. I can grant someone that he's still contributing to that but losing teams often have locker room problems stemming from frustration of losing.
 

Jumptheshark

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And if Kane doesn't do anything of the sort and the team wins with him then what? Will anyone say that the fact that the teams he was playing for not being all that good may have contributed to some of the locker room issues that he was around. I can grant someone that he's still contributing to that but losing teams often have locker room problems stemming from frustration of losing.


what I am saying is people are bending over backwards to say buffalo screwed the pooch or that Kane has changed his colours. We have seen this show before. Before I give Kane a pat on the back lets see how he is playing this time next year. Kane falls into a comfort zone of taking too many shifts off. So before I think he has turned the corner---Unlike some around here who pass judgement quickly--I will wait.

kane reminds me of a guy named Petr Klima in the way he wears out his welcome
 

DRW204

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steal of the deadline so far seems like fits really well for SJS, will be interesting to see how he performs in the playoffs for the 1st time in his career.
 

Not Sure

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what I am saying is people are bending over backwards to say buffalo screwed the pooch or that Kane has changed his colours. We have seen this show before. Before I give Kane a pat on the back lets see how he is playing this time next year. Kane falls into a comfort zone of taking too many shifts off. So before I think he has turned the corner---Unlike some around here who pass judgement quickly--I will wait.

kane reminds me of a guy named Petr Klima in the way he wears out his welcome

Kanes never taken shifts off, his on ice work ethic has never, ever, been a problem. Even the biggest Kane haters from Buffalo and Winnipeg know that. His problwm.isnt complacency, it's bad decision making and the need to play with top tier center to be productive consistently. He went through long stretches of "team play" in Buffalo where he'd pass and use line mates, once it stops working he reverts to shooting it as soon as he touches the puck.
 

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