Simmonds for Skinner

Would you be in favor of a Simmonds for Skinner swap?

  • Yes

  • No


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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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21,617
Skinner only makes sense if you can sign him to a reasonable extension, one factor in favor of that is his stats aren't inflated by the PP.
He's averaged 25-19 at ES, but only 54 points total the last three years. So he has 2nd line scoring stats.
But if you don't think you can extend him, I'd rather have Simmons for one year on the third line.

I think Lindblom is going to have a good season, he seems to fit well with Patrick. So LW on the 2nd line isn't a priority, and I'm not sure I want Skinner at LW and Voracek at RW, that's putting a lot of defensive pressure on Patrick - and who goes gets the puck?

Skinner would have highest value if he can play 3C in 2018 and 3 LW in 2019 with Frost on a speed line.
 

Prongo

Beer
Jun 5, 2008
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Skinner is 26 and Simmonds is 30. Both are a year out from free agency and both have put up comparable numbers over the last couple years. Why would you trade a younger player for an older player that brings about the same thing to your team? Would you trade Ghost for Keith Yandle?
I’m guessing you missed the owner of the team saying they want to get tougher. Which pretty much signalified Skinner pretty much won’t be re-signed and will be moved. He’s a skilled player and Carolina has the cap space to sign Simmonds instead of signing skinner. Also your analogy doesn’t quite work because Ghost is signed to a much better contract than Yandle. And both aren’t UFAs
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Vegas is just as fast as anybody left. Don't try to create a different point of view.

Vegas is not as fast as Winnipeg or TB, but they're the most defensively disciplined team in the playoffs (and MAF is in the zone).
Defense wins championships (unless you have Gretzky and Messier or Crosby and Malkin).

I prefer fast scorers in the mold of TK. Kid is willing to hit, just has to learn to be more disciplined defensively (as Vegas shows, you need to skate as hard getting back as you do trying to score - and pressure defense leads to offense). But he's no figure skater.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
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Nova Scotia
Would not do.

Everyone's bailing on Simmonds because he had one down season playing through a host of brutal injuries. But I think his presence means a lot to the team, and taking him off the roster makes the Flyers easier to play against. I'm pretty sure most opponents would rather face the Flyers with Skinner in place of Simmonds.

And Simmonds still equaled Skinner's 24 goals, and had only 3 fewer points (46 v. 49), despite playing 7 fewer games and being hurt all season.

I think there are a lot of itchy trigger fingers around here.
You totally missed the reason WHY we like that deal.

It's all about the next contract. I WOULD re-sign Skinner. I would not re-sign Simmonds. Hence why I do that deal.

Adding Skinner and re-signing him for 5 years mean we have him for him for his 26-31 year old seasons. I much rather that than Simmonds for his 31-36 year old seasons.

Also, you are looking at total points. At ES, Skinner out pointed him 40-28. For ES goals, Skinner had 20 while Simmonds had 12.

The important key is to trade Simminds before you remove him from our #1 PP unit because if Patrick takes over his spot, Simmonds points are going to nosedive.

Skinner has also shown he can score with little help from his centres. He can drive the line. Simmonds can't.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
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You totally missed the reason WHY we like that deal.

It's all about the next contract. I WOULD re-sign Skinner. I would not re-sign Simmonds. Hence why I do that deal.

Adding Skinner and re-signing him for 5 years mean we have him for him for his 26-31 year old seasons. I much rather that than Simmonds for his 31-36 year old seasons.

Also, you are looking at total points. At ES, Skinner out pointed him 40-28. For ES goals, Skinner had 20 while Simmonds had 12.

The important key is to trade Simminds before you remove him from our #1 PP unit because if Patrick takes over his spot, Simmonds points are going to nosedive.

Skinner has also shown he can score with little help from his centres. He can drive the line. Simmonds can't.

You're basing your opinion on the assumption they can automatically re-sign Skinner?

And, yes, I realize Skinner is the more productive ES player. But I think you are underestimating what Simmonds' presence in the lineup means to the Flyers. He's much of the team's identity. I still think teams would much rather face a Flyers team with Skinner in place of Simmonds.

Now, if you can negotiate ahead of time a deal with Skinner, then, yeah, I'd certainly consider it, as Skinner is several years younger. But if we're talking one year for one year, I'd prefer to just keep Simmonds for the reasons I cited in my prior post.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
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Nova Scotia
You're basing your opinion on the assumption they can automatically re-sign Skinner?

And, yes, I realize Skinner is the more productive ES player. But I think you are underestimating what Simmonds' presence in the lineup means to the Flyers. He's much of the team's identity. I still think teams would much rather face a Flyers team with Skinner in place of Simmonds.

Now, if you can negotiate ahead of time a deal with Skinner, then, yeah, I'd certainly consider it, as Skinner is several years younger. But if we're talking one year for one year, I'd prefer to just keep Simmonds for the reasons I cited in my prior post.
No, I am basing my opinion that I would do the deal after July 1 and let both GM's talk to the agents about signing new contracts.

Canes want to get tougher so they would likely sign off on this.

Could be a win-win for both teams.

As for Simmonds, and identity. Let's just agree to disagree. sSimmonds is ALL reputation right now. This past season he was certainly banged up. But it was also a glimpse into what an aging Simmonds could be. Less of a hitter. Less skating. Less intimidation. Less impact at ES.

Let someone else pay for his intangibles that are not real.
 
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The Madrigal

Registered User
Apr 26, 2016
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I love Skinner but the more I think about this the more I think it makes a whole lot more sense to just sign a free agent rather than give up assets for Skinner and then have to sign him long term as well. I have preferred Kane all along, think I'd take the LW free agency field (Kane, JVR, Perron, etc) at this point.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
86,033
Nova Scotia
I love Skinner but the more I think about this the more I think it makes a whole lot more sense to just sign a free agent rather than give up assets for Skinner and then have to sign him long term as well. I have preferred Kane all along, think I'd take the LW free agency field (Kane, JVR, Perron, etc) at this point.
Again, you don't have to do that deal until after July 1st once you see how things play out. It's just an option.

But I agree, if we could sign Kane to a fair deal, go for it. Then you could trade Simmonds for help elsewhere or for futures...or both like Connor Brown +1st in 2019.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Sep 28, 2014
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I love Skinner but the more I think about this the more I think it makes a whole lot more sense to just sign a free agent rather than give up assets for Skinner and then have to sign him long term as well. I have preferred Kane all along, think I'd take the LW free agency field (Kane, JVR, Perron, etc) at this point.

You're gonna have to overpay a UFA. They are always overpaid. You won't have to overpay Skinner if you trade for him and sign him.

Signing Kane would be fine with me as it does appear he has matured a great deal, but I don't think he leaves San Jose.

Perron is another playmaker. I'd pass on him.
 

The Madrigal

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Apr 26, 2016
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You're gonna have to overpay a UFA. They are always overpaid. You won't have to overpay Skinner if you trade for him and sign him.

Signing Kane would be fine with me as it does appear he has matured a great deal, but I don't think he leaves San Jose.

Perron is another playmaker. I'd pass on him.
How do you know they won't have to overpay to re-sign Skinner. You think he's going to get here and immediately take a hometown discount? I'd rather pay Kane the UFA cost than trade say 19 and a prospect for Skinner and then have to re-sign him. Point taken on Perron, that still leaves Kane, JVR, and Neal though.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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How do you know they won't have to overpay to re-sign Skinner. You think he's going to get here and immediately take a hometown discount? I'd rather pay Kane the UFA cost than trade say 19 and a prospect for Skinner and then have to re-sign him. Point taken on Perron, that still leaves Kane, JVR, and Neal though.

Hextall has done a great job with contract extensions so I have faith that he would get Skinner signed at a fair number.

UFAs are almost always overpaid because there are other bidders involved. There would be no other bids involved if we were extend Skinner the summer before he is a UFA.

I see your point on wanting to overpay a UFA rather than trade assets for Skinner. I think we should kick the tires on Kane and if he signs elsewhere, you look into trading for a Skinner, or Mike Hoffman, who I have coveted for a while now and might be available.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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Skinner >> Hoffman.
Hoffman 35 ES points the last two years, he turns 29, is not an uber-athlete, and will probably decline by 30.
Hoffman needed 4 AHL seasons to make the NHL, which makes me suspect he's going to have a Read like career trajectory.
 
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The Madrigal

Registered User
Apr 26, 2016
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Skinner >> Hoffman.
Hoffman 35 ES points the last two years, he turns 29, is not an uber-athlete, and will probably decline by 30.
Hoffman needed 4 AHL seasons to make the NHL, which makes me suspect he's going to have a Read like career trajectory.
LMAO, he's a hockey player, not an NFL RB.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

THE TORTURE NEVER STOPS
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I’m guessing you missed the owner of the team saying they want to get tougher. Which pretty much signalified Skinner pretty much won’t be re-signed and will be moved. He’s a skilled player and Carolina has the cap space to sign Simmonds instead of signing skinner.

No, I didn't miss that. It still doesn't mean that they would take a 30 year old Simmonds on an expiring deal for Skinner. I mean, maybe I missed the part where he said he wants to get tougher and that can only occur in a trade involving Jeff Skinner. Last time I checked the Hurricanes could trade Skinner for anyone (picks even) and still get tougher by signing or making other moves. If they are taking offers on Skinner, I would be that Simmonds wouldn't be the best offer they get.

Also your analogy doesn’t quite work because Ghost is signed to a much better contract than Yandle. And both aren’t UFAs
So let's pretend the contract situation was the same. Would you do it? Of course not.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Simmonds to Ottawa for Hoffman makes more sense when you remember how cheap their owner is and how all of their moves are made in an effort to save money.

Simmonds has 1 year left at $3.95
Hoffman has 2 years left at $5.187

This would save Melnyk $6.39 million in real dollars.

Melnyk can then flip Simmonds at the deadline for futures if he doesn't want to extend him.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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LMAO, he's a hockey player, not an NFL RB.

I think you have to adjust age curves for the greater emphasis on speed, a lot of players can't afford to lose a stride or two, we saw that with Read.
To me there are three categories now:

Basic starter, expiration date around 30 (look at the 400+ game numbers on draft picks, 5-6 starting seasons is a good career)
Top starter, expiration date around 32
HOF, Allstar, expiration date 34-35

I think bigger, skilled scorers can last longer, smaller guys who lose a stride lose room to operate, whereas PFs and big Centers are used to tight spaces.
Defensemen tend to last a year or two longer.

Skinner and Hoffman are similar players, speedy scorers who play a soft game. But Skinner is more talented. So he'll probably last longer.
The problem with Simmonds is staying healthy, he's a bit of freak as a PF who can skate, so he can lose some speed and remain effective.
But I wouldn't bet on him past 32-33.
 

Domino666

“20 years away”
Aug 18, 2011
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I just really want someone that can score from anywhere below the tops of the circles on any given shot. Hoffmans wrist shot is ****ing lethal.
And at some point they’ll Have G feeding him from everywhere on the ice, Hoffman’d wrister like you said is bonkers, and let’s not pretend G wouldn’t find him in his wheelhouse, I’m hyping myself right now that shit would be as the kids say nowadays cray
 

TheKingPin

Registered User
Nov 16, 2005
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I voted no bc I think Simmonds value is so low right now and everyone is down on him here. His injuries came out and they made national news, they were insane. He will be back to a streaky forward that can score 30 goals and win you chunks of games at several points in the year. Simmonds being healthy couple have beat the pens if he was in a streak. I think you let him play and get things going again and then trade him at the deadline. This isn’t Schenn where we knew his numbers and value will go down with the new guys. Simmonds will play with Patrick who could be amazing this year or a good 3C that would be checked well with our top two lines as they will be. Simmonds value last year was sky high as a unique cheap power forward and leader. You could have gotten a high end prospect and a first. I’d still like a high end prospect from a team like the blues at the deadline.

Skinner is a good talent and I didn’t realize he was 25, but swapping a ufa for a ufa is not what I’m looking for.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
Skinner >> Hoffman.
Hoffman 35 ES points the last two years, he turns 29, is not an uber-athlete, and will probably decline by 30.
Hoffman needed 4 AHL seasons to make the NHL, which makes me suspect he's going to have a Read like career trajectory.
Yeah, Hoffman scares the hell out of me. I would not give up anything of value to acquire him.
 

bauer

I WANT GOALS
Nov 11, 2007
4,587
4,728
No, I am basing my opinion that I would do the deal after July 1 and let both GM's talk to the agents about signing new contracts.

Canes want to get tougher so they would likely sign off on this.

Could be a win-win for both teams.

As for Simmonds, and identity. Let's just agree to disagree. sSimmonds is ALL reputation right now. This past season he was certainly banged up. But it was also a glimpse into what an aging Simmonds could be. Less of a hitter. Less skating. Less intimidation. Less impact at ES.

Let someone else pay for his intangibles that are not real.

well said.

it seems a lot of people are frightened by the idea of needing to resign Skinner to some crazy deal a year from now. that's likely not happening. if we were to get Skinner (and presumably keep our top PP unit together) he isn't going to get a raise putting up 40-55 points. Skinner makes 5.7m now, I can't see that going up unless his numbers significantly go up, and that doesn't happen without top PP.

I like Hoffman too, but if I had to choose between the two i'd probably go Skinner. he'd cost less, and he's much faster. either would be a great fit though. fills a perfect need at middle 6 LW.

E.Kane is an option, but I don't see him leaving SJ. he apparently really loves it there.
 

bauer

I WANT GOALS
Nov 11, 2007
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I just really want someone that can score from anywhere below the tops of the circles on any given shot. Hoffmans wrist shot is ****ing lethal.

I just want any forward upgrade at this point. our 3rd line is a complete mess. i'm not 100% sold on Lindblom being an offensive force yet either. good player with some good tools, but the jury's still out on whether or not he'll ever be a big offensive contributor. so as of now we only have 2 of 6 spots in the middle 6 that can produce 5v5. that is very concerning. we need an upgrade there badly. Hextall seems to agree too because he mentioned a scoring winger as a need in an exit interview. let's hope we get a good one.
 
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