Sidney vs Mario

[markov`]

Did he really start the season in 1804?

Sorry, I couldn't resist

What a typo, sorry...

 

[pei fan]

I don't understand why it is so absurd to think that a player who has accomplished as much or more than any player in history before him *might* turn into a superstar.

To me it is much more foolish to say he will NOT be a superstar than to say that he COULD become a superstar.

Sweet and simple.

 

[Tb0ne]

crosby fans..i want to know if you think he can put up these types of numbers.

Maybe not totally at that level but if they call obstruction there is definatly a chance.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

And how often did Gretzky dominate like that? Just one season. You need to stop fooling yourself. Most of the time, it was between 65 and 75%... you can't just grab a couple of outlying seasons and say tada. There's alot more to it than one season.



Relatively speaking, if the league scoring leaders are scoring 90 points, and Crosby is scoring 130+ points, he is dominating like Gretzky was. Those are just the facts.

no, he dominated like that in his prime. in '83-84 he scored 205 with the next highest being 126. in '84-85 he scored 208 with next highest being 135. in '85-86 he scored 215 with next highest being 141. in '86-87 he scored 183 with next highest being 108. he dominated like that EVERY YEAR in his prime. that comes to 61%, 65%, 66%, 59%. for crosby to dominate like gretz, he would have to put up numbers like i posted earlier.

75%?? only when mario entered his prime did anyone challenge wayne like that. highest was mike bossy got 69% in '82. the FACT is, from 1981-1987, a 6 year period, wayne dominated that way. i find it funny you think i just picked one season. how much do you know about hockey anyway? it's obvious crosby worship

edit - if crosby can score 140+ consistently while the second highest is scoring around 90, which comes to 64%, i would admit he is dominating like gretzky.

 

[Sykie]

i find it funny you think i just picked one season. how much do you know about hockey anyway? it's obvious crosby worship

Exactly the kind of posts which keep me from sharing my thoughts on that kind of subjects. We've often seen homers on these boards, and he is definitly not one of them, yet you act like he didn't know anything about hockey. It's sad, it's really sad.

edit - if crosby can score 140+ consistently while the second highest is scoring around 90, which comes to 64%, i would admit he is dominating like gretzky.

This sentence clearly proves he was right when he was saying some people understand nothing about areas. The area is not on the same level, it's not all about pure statistics dude.

I don't think anybody will ever dominate like Gretzky, and I'm happy with it because he is my personnal legend, but it has nothing to do with thinking nobody will ever be as talented, it's just the fact the NHL has changed, and talent level has rised each and every years, as a lot of players and experts noticed it.

Oh, nevermind… I’m not going to start a debate there. But I would have loved to see what guys like Luongo, Crosby, Kovalchuk or Ovechkin would have done if they played in the 80s with the talent level they have now.

EDIT : I can't get over it. It's sad to see hockey fans ranting with subjects like that, it's a pitty to see that. We are fans of the same sports, and we go in the same direction no ?

There was a great one, and there was fantastic players in their area. It doesn't change the fact hockey is evoluating, and some greats players are coming... an incredible generation of talent, like Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Zherdev, Nash, Heatley, Ovechkin, Crosby, Frolik, Kessel, Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, and I'm forgetting a lot of talents. Man these guys are talented, much more talented than a lot of people here are giving them for credit. Some of them could failed, yes, but not all of them, and they are still the future of our sports.

As for Crosby, he is doing better than Lemieux in their second season, and the thing which is amazing is the fact he is doing that 20 years later, in a very, very improved league. What do you want him to do ? The race for the best player in the NHL will be wild and it should push the sport to another level. Why dismiss these young stars ?

dawgbone was right when saying Crosby has already failed because some morons already decided that and it's terrible. Let's be with these guys, not against them. They are the future of our sport.

 

[Kasparov*]

It's settled then, Crosby is better than Lemieux.

lol

 

[MojoJojo]

Maybe for perspective you should throw in the statistics of that other "next great one", Daigle?

 

[markov`]

edit - if crosby can score 140+ consistently while the second highest is scoring around 90, which comes to 64%, i would admit he is dominating like gretzky.

That is very unlikely, this is why I NEVER compareted Crosby to Gretzky, because they doesn't play in the same league at the same age and I think Wayne was a little better...

 

[markov`]

Maybe for perspective you should throw in the statistics of that other "next great one", Daigle?

No problem.

16 years old season: 110 points in 66 games
17 years old season: 137 points in 53 games

Comparated to Crosby...

16 years old season: 135 points in 59 games
17 years old season: 168 points in 62 games

Don't forget that Daigle played in a much more offensive league. I know the 17 yrs old season are comparable if you look at PPG (Crosby is still better though), but when you watch carefully you see Crosby is just plain better. Daigle was only the 3rd scorer in the QMJHL, when at the same age Crosby leads the CHL by miles.

People laughed at me when I said that Crosby will score 60-70 points right away in the NHL. We all agree that Crosby is better at 17 than Daigle so technically, he should be better than Daigle at 18... Daigle scored 51 points in the NHL at that age.

 

[pei fan]

Maybe for perspective you should throw in the statistics of that other "next great one", Daigle?

Just Curious -Does anyone here not understand that Crosby is much better than
Daigle is NOW(and Daigle is playing the best of his career)?
Does anyone here not understand that Crosby already possesses several
skill sets that are at a NHL superstar level?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

This thread gave me a headache having to read some of this nonsense. One guy is saying Crosby will be somewhere in the middle of Richards and Gamanche and saying their stats as a 19/20 year old are comparable to Crosbys as a 17 year old. Others keep *****ing because Crosby was born in Nova Scotia rather then BC. Its quite sad actually.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Exactly the kind of posts which keep me from sharing my thoughts on that kind of subjects. We've often seen homers on these boards, and he is definitly not one of them, yet you act like he didn't know anything about hockey. It's sad, it's really sad.

This sentence clearly proves he was right when he was saying some people understand nothing about areas. The area is not on the same level, it's not all about pure statistics dude.

the numbers were adjusted to the 2004 scoring leader. i only compared relative dominance to peers. that just shows how thoroughly gretzky whipped the competition, and not everyone was scoring 170 pts in the '80s.

and btw, his comment about "moron hockey fans" to anyone who doesn't kiss crosby's ass wasn't appreciated either.

 

[dawgbone]

no, he dominated like that in his prime. in '83-84 he scored 205 with the next highest being 126. in '84-85 he scored 208 with next highest being 135. in '85-86 he scored 215 with next highest being 141. in '86-87 he scored 183 with next highest being 108. he dominated like that EVERY YEAR in his prime. that comes to 61%, 65%, 66%, 59%. for crosby to dominate like gretz, he would have to put up numbers like i posted earlier.

So Gretzky's prime only lasted 4 years... and you'll notice two of those years the number went within the threshold I put forward. In fact, out of all this arguing, you managed to come up with 2 seasons that did not fall within the threshold of the paramaters I mentioned.

Do you enjoy arguing over nothing?

The following are all the years where Gretzky or Lemieux won the scoring title, and the % of the person (who wasn't either Gretzky or Lemieux) that finished next closest to them in scoring. Most numbers were pro-rated to reflect a full season if they missed time (I might have missed a couple, but they are close, the most important one was the 92-93 season)

1981-82 69%
1982-83 67%
--
--
--
--
1987-88 68%
1988-89 77%
1989-90 91%
1990-91 80%
1991-92 94%
1992-93 68%
1993-94 92%
1994-95 --
1995-96 79%
1996-97 80%

So except for 83-84 and 86-87, it all fell in higher than 65%? Sorry, it's not 1 season, it's 2. And yes, between the 2 of them, it was between 65 and 75% as a rough average. Most of these years were in one of their primes.

75%?? only when mario entered his prime did anyone challenge wayne like that. highest was mike bossy got 69% in '82. the FACT is, from 1981-1987, a 6 year period, wayne dominated that way. i find it funny you think i just picked one season. how much do you know about hockey anyway? it's obvious crosby worship

It's a 6 year period, where it fell under 65% twice. And for the record, it has nothing to do with Crosby worship... it's just perspective. Do I think Crosby will be as dominant as either Lemieux or Gretzky? No. Do I think it's possible? Sure, why not? It's not like the kid has not lived up to every expectation.

edit - if crosby can score 140+ consistently while the second highest is scoring around 90, which comes to 64%, i would admit he is dominating like gretzky.

You mean he dominated like Gretzky did for 4 seasons. If Crosby can put up numbers in that 65-75% range for 10 seasons, then I'll give him the same recognition that I've given Gretzky, who IMO is the greatest ever.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

you're right, this is getting ridiculous. thus this will be my last post on this.

based on your range, for last year(lowest art ross scorer in many many years), crosby would have had to put up between 125 and 145 to fall in the 65%-75% range. most years, the art ross winner is between 100-120 pts. realistically, crosby will have to put up 140-160 pts a season to stay in that 65-75% range.

 

[Crosbyfan]

No problem.

16 years old season: 110 points in 66 games
17 years old season: 137 points in 53 games

Comparated to Crosby...

16 years old season: 135 points in 59 games
17 years old season: 168 points in 62 games

Don't forget that Daigle played in a much more offensive league. I know the 17 yrs old season are comparable if you look at PPG (Crosby is still better though), but when you watch carefully you see Crosby is just plain better. Daigle was only the 3rd scorer in the QMJHL, when at the same age Crosby leads the CHL by miles.

People laughed at me when I said that Crosby will score 60-70 points right away in the NHL. We all agree that Crosby is better at 17 than Daigle so technically, he should be better than Daigle at 18... Daigle scored 51 points in the NHL at that age.

Remember that Sid is 6 months younger (exactly) in each of these comparisons so it would be equally fair to compare Sid's 17 year old season to Daigle's 16/17 year old season.

Similarly Mario is a couple months younger than Sid in all these comparisons.