Should we change the first line?

[Seph]

The guy's been pretty bad in Bridgeport. Then again, he's been on the 4th line.

To be fair, he played himself there by putting up only 1pt in the 8 games prior to the demotion to the 4th line. Since then, he's put up 3pts in 5 games, so maybe it's working.

 

[PK Cronin]

Whatever line Barzal is on is the 1st line, that's been obvious and will be even more so moving forward. We could label lines by number or TOI, but the most effective line is the one that Barzal is centering AINEC. Hopefully we get a coach that realizes this and ices them accordingly.

I see you've turned the famous line blender on. Only issue is Ho-Sang is on the 4th line in the AHL, he basically needs to move up 7 lines in the organization. They are too stubborn to put him on the 1st line since that would be basically admitting it was a mistake to have him down in the AHL

Neither of these things are accurate.

1) Tavares' line is the top line, they get the most minutes and they draw the best defensive match up the opposition has to offer. Why do people keep overlooking this?
2) Nobody moves up line by line like that. Stop with this stupid idea of guys being on higher lines always being better than the ones below them. It's ridiculous and not even close to being true.

Stop over simplifying things.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Neither of these things are accurate.

1) Tavares' line is the top line, they get the most minutes and they draw the best defensive match up the opposition has to offer. Why do people keep overlooking this?

I actually mentioned that my criteria was based on effectiveness, not TOI or what you see on the depth chart in a game day thread or MSG for that matter. Guess we'll agree to disagree... I know for damn sure which line is better at even strength, so call the lines whatever you want, I really don't give a shit. Barzal is the future of the Islanders, whether Tavares stays or goes.

2) Nobody moves up line by line like that. Stop with this stupid idea of guys being on higher lines always being better than the ones below them. It's ridiculous and not even close to being true.

Stop over simplifying things.

When did I say he would move up 1 line at a time? My point was he is on the last line in the organization (excluding ECHL affiliate), it was a response to someone suggesting he should be on the first line in the organization. Please, tell me when a player was promoted from 4th Line AHL duty to 1st Line NHL duty.

Must you win another HF Boards pissing contest largely based on semantics? Look for validation elsewhere, this entire forum has been polluted with people quick to resort to flaming others for no apparent reason. People taking comments out of context to stroke their own ego. The smartest guy in the room syndrome is everywhere now.

I appreciate your unwarranted insults and spinning my words because at the end of the day I came here to talk hockey and celebrate the Islanders success, it's apparent there is little Islanders success to celebrate and even less Hockey to talk since everyone is looking to incite an argument and call each other stupid.

Until Garth Snow is terminated and this organization shows a commitment to winning, I am done with HFBoards, you can waste your Spring and Summer ridiculing one another over a team that is going nowhere fast, i'm going to use the time to do something productive.

HAGS

 

[Brunomics]

I wouldn't mess with the Barzal line.

 

[SCMURRAY]

Lets put the guy with 1 goal and 0 assists in 17 games there. Brilliant

And i thought Chimera was traded.....

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

How does Weight actually stand in front of the press today and with a straight face and say "we are really battling for the playoffs, so Chris Gibson is in goal tonight and John Tavares is centering Tanner Fritz." And we wonder why the rest of the league laughs at us.

 

[PK Cronin]

I actually mentioned that my criteria was based on effectiveness, not TOI or what you see on the depth chart in a game day thread or MSG for that matter. Guess we'll agree to disagree... I know for damn sure which line is better at even strength, so call the lines whatever you want, I really don't give a ****. Barzal is the future of the Islanders, whether Tavares stays or goes.

Right, your criteria for top line doesn't make sense though and that was the point of my post. Has Barzal been more productive at 5 on 5? Yes. Why though? Because Tavares is taking the best defensive players away from him. That doesn't make Barzal's line the top line, that makes them the most productive 5 on 5 and it's because of the top line that they are able to do that. If Tavares isn't around, do you think Barzal is putting up the same numbers?

When did I say he would move up 1 line at a time? My point was he is on the last line in the organization (excluding ECHL affiliate), it was a response to someone suggesting he should be on the first line in the organization. Please, tell me when a player was promoted from 4th Line AHL duty to 1st Line NHL duty.

I don't recall what line he was on last year in the AHL when he came up, but didn't he end up on the top line when Tavares went out? It's not like we haven't seen him there before and using the amount of lines as some type of indicator seems weird.

Must you win another HF Boards pissing contest largely based on semantics? Look for validation elsewhere, this entire forum has been polluted with people quick to resort to flaming others for no apparent reason. People taking comments out of context to stroke their own ego. The smartest guy in the room syndrome is everywhere now.

I appreciate your unwarranted insults and spinning my words because at the end of the day I came here to talk hockey and celebrate the Islanders success, it's apparent there is little Islanders success to celebrate and even less Hockey to talk since everyone is looking to incite an argument and call each other stupid.

Until Garth Snow is terminated and this organization shows a commitment to winning, I am done with HFBoards, you can waste your Spring and Summer ridiculing one another over a team that is going nowhere fast, i'm going to use the time to do something productive.

HAGS

I didn't flame you at all, I criticized your post because it deserved criticism and I was using it as an example because so many people do the same thing. Discussing lines and the depth chart is definitely talking about hockey, it's actually incredibly important to have further discussion. How can there be any discussion at if we don't agree about something as simple as lines and the depth chart? I don't have to be the smartest guy in the room, but I want to have an actual discussion about things rather than painting this broad stroke over everything. Over simplification is not conducive to positive conversation.

I don't have to spin anything, it's literally what you wrote. Semantics is important in communication, especially one where writing and reading is required. Sorry you don't feel the same.

 

[redbull]

Whatever line Barzal is on is the 1st line, that's been obvious and will be even more so moving forward. We could label lines by number or TOI, but the most effective line is the one that Barzal is centering AINEC. Hopefully we get a coach that realizes this and ices them accordingly.

not exactly. Just because they're producing, the OPPONENTS dictate who the top line is, based on what match-ups they get. Along with the ice-time that Weight controls.

Barzal's been on fire this year, after a slow start. Tavares (and his two linemates) have been utterly useless in the past few weeks.

They're both great lines.

And I'd change them because the top line is struggling - all of them. Gotta try something - desperate times!

Or just watch it burn.

 

[Glory Days]

Other than juggling the top 2 lines there is little that can be done. There is no offensive talent beyond the top 2 lines and any other player you put on those 2 lines would just drag those lines down. The only exception I could think of is to move Casey to the top line. He won't bring offensive skill but his non stop hustle may help.

 

[xIsle]

All you need is Barzal & Eberle together. Doesn't really matter who you put next to them.

That's completely wrong.

Your lineup is frankly absurd: a player who does not produce in the American league is offered the first line, nothing less! (with Cizikas?). Another who has not been producing for a long time (Ladd): another promotion! But a player (Beau) who produces and gives his 100%, we demote him! Ridiculous. What a bad message you will send to the player. Fortunately it's not you the coach ...

 

[Sheva7]

That's completely wrong.

Your lineup is frankly absurd: a player who does not produce in the American league is offered the first line, nothing less! (with Cizikas?). Another who has not been producing for a long time (Ladd): another promotion! But a player (Beau) who produces and gives his 100%, we demote him! Ridiculous. What a bad message you will send to the player. Fortunately it's not you the coach ...

Ok hold ur horses before u have a heart attack there lol

Obviously you failed to notice it was a lineup I made in jest.

Point being... it doesn't matter what combos you put together the team is still broken

 

[Sheva7]

But yea... the part about Eberle and Barzal I actually meant. You could put almost anyone next to them and they'd look good

 

[xIsle]

Ok hold ur horses before u have a heart attack there lol

Obviously you failed to notice it was a lineup I made in jest.

Point being... it doesn't matter what combos you put together the team is still broken

Ah okay, your line-up was joke! Well you got me.

 

[YesCubed]

To be fair, he played himself there by putting up only 1pt in the 8 games prior to the demotion to the 4th line. Since then, he's put up 3pts in 5 games, so maybe it's working.

yet he was producing in the NHL. jason chimera was just too good to scratch in favor of him though

 

[Seph]

yet he was producing in the NHL. jason chimera was just too good to scratch in favor of him though

Ho-Sang had 3 points in his last 10 games before being sent to the AHL. Over that same stretch, Chimera had 4 points, so it's not like Ho-Sang was even outproducing Chimera at the time.

Also keep in mind, the 4th line in Bridgepot is really a 4th line in name only. All 4 lines get high comparable minutes and are designed to be fairly even. So even on the 4th line there, he's probably getting more minutes and to play a more offensive role than he'd get if he took Chimera's spot on the 4th line on the Islanders.

 

[YesCubed]

Ho-Sang had 3 points in his last 10 games before being sent to the AHL. Over that same stretch, Chimera had 4 points, so it's not like Ho-Sang was even outproducing Chimera at the time.

Also keep in mind, the 4th line in Bridgepot is really a 4th line in name only. All 4 lines get high comparable minutes and are designed to be fairly even. So even on the 4th line there, he's probably getting more minutes and to play a more offensive role than he'd get if he took Chimera's spot on the 4th line on the Islanders.

so JHS gets to have 10 games of mediocre play but Chimera gets to have 60 of mostly costing them games and being generally useless. cool!

what about the games before that? JHS had 12 points in 22 games playing mostly on the 3rd line and on the 2nd pp unit when he got sent down (the second time). in that stretch chimera had 7 points in 32 games. he doesn't kill penalties. JHS drew 11 penalties in his time up here. Chimera TOOK 10. there's literally no argument to be made for chimera to have been on the team for as long as he did (especially since as soon as he was scratched the shots against dropped dramatically). especially over JHS who was an actual productive member of the team.

again i don't care about how he produces in the AHL. it was very clear he could put up points in the NHL.

 

[BarzyClub]

That first line looks slow and tired, tired, tired!

Lee-JT-Beauvillier
Beau’s played RW before and will bring that much needed speed for some zone entry to that line. jT seems to be trying too hard -Beau will create some space

Nelson-Barzal-Eberle
Doesn’t matter who Lw2 is but it’s time for an actual top6 LW to actually get a shot there. Shocking that he hasn’t even come close to playing there as Nelson’s not a center. Isles trying to leverage RFA Nelson?Dumb.

Ladd-Cizikas-Bailey//whatever’s left
Johnson-Wagner-Clutterbuck//**

 

[Seph]

so JHS gets to have 10 games of mediocre play but Chimera gets to have 60 of mostly costing them games and being generally useless. cool!

what about the games before that? JHS had 12 points in 22 games playing mostly on the 3rd line and on the 2nd pp unit when he got sent down (the second time). in that stretch chimera had 7 points in 32 games. he doesn't kill penalties. JHS drew 11 penalties in his time up here. Chimera TOOK 10. there's literally no argument to be made for chimera to have been on the team for as long as he did (especially since as soon as he was scratched the shots against dropped dramatically). especially over JHS who was an actual productive member of the team.

again i don't care about how he produces in the AHL. it was very clear he could put up points in the NHL.

Yes, if you're a one way offensive forward who is a liability defensively, it's viewed differently when you're not producing than when you are a 4th line energy player. Also, when you're a young player the organization hopes to develop into a top asset, you will be handled differently than a player in his twilight years that has no potential to develop.

I'd rather JHS develop in an offensive role in the AHL than be forced to try to play an energy 4th line role in the NHL There's no reason to compare JHS to Chimera, as Chimera didn't play in JHS' spot. JHS' game is exclusively about creating offense, and if he isn't doing that in either the NHL or the AHL then maybe he's not showing he is ready for the NHL.

 

[YesCubed]

JHS' game is exclusively about creating offense, and if he isn't doing that in either the NHL or the AHL then maybe he's not showing he is ready for the NHL.

he was producing at a 50 point pace, on the 3rd line, in the NHL.

if it wasn't chimera it was one of: quine, fritz, prince, bernier, clutterbuck, johnston, dal colle, etc playing over him and they're worse than him by a significant margin.

if you want JHS to be better at the NHL level you have to play him against NHL defenders. they aren't doing that. they, for some unknown reason, are trying to force him into a being a 2-way forward. that's not his game, and that's ok. you need scorers (especially if you have an entire bottom 6 that doesn't do anything positive)

 

[Seph]

he was producing at a 50 point pace, on the 3rd line, in the NHL.

if it wasn't chimera it was one of: quine, fritz, prince, bernier, clutterbuck, johnston, dal colle, etc playing over him and they're worse than him by a significant margin.

if you want JHS to be better at the NHL level you have to play him against NHL defenders. they aren't doing that. they, for some unknown reason, are trying to force him into a being a 2-way forward. that's not his game, and that's ok. you need scorers (especially if you have an entire bottom 6 that doesn't do anything positive)

That's the thing, as I have pointed out, no, he wasn't producing at a 50 point pace. I mean, Brock Nelson is a top 45 ES goal scorer in the NHL over the past 5 seasons, but I wouldn't say he is currently producing at a top 45 ESG pace right now. Would you?

I agree we need scorers. I just think scorers need to actually score in order to call them scorers and if JHS isn't scoring in either the NHL or the AHL, he's not really a scorer. Also, I have already pointed out how 4th liners have different expectations on the ice than guys who are expected to be scorers, so changing the 4th liner doesn't change that point either.

Fortunately, he's been turning it on since being put on the 4th line, and I hope he continues to play well enough to earn his way back up. And I really hope he does it soon, because we could use him, but only if he's putting in the work. But more importantly, I simply don't believe in telling young players that their innate talent is more important than their actual quality of play on the ice.

 

[YesCubed]

That's the thing, as I have pointed out, no, he wasn't producing at a 50 point pace. I mean, Brock Nelson is a top 45 ES goal scorer in the NHL over the past 5 seasons, but I wouldn't say he is currently producing at a top 45 ESG pace right now. Would you?

probably because they sent down his linemate who was on pace to score 45 (sorry i was 5 points off) points on the 3rd line.

I agree we need scorers. I just think scorers need to actually score in order to call them scorers and if JHS isn't scoring in either the NHL or the AHL, he's not really a scorer. Also, I have already pointed out how 4th liners have different expectations on the ice than guys who are expected to be scorers, so changing the 4th liner doesn't change that point either.

he was producing though. i don't see how you can argue with 12 points in 22 games while getting 3rd line minutes and say that's not a producing player. but yes let's keep tanner fritz up with his 2 points in 18 games.

Fortunately, he's been turning it on since being put on the 4th line, and I hope he continues to play well enough to earn his way back up. And I really hope he does it soon, because we could use him, but only if he's putting in the work. But more importantly, I simply don't believe in telling young players that their innate talent is more important than their actual quality of play on the ice.

yes we should instead try to coach out their talent and try to develop them into 2-way players. worked really well for strome and dal colle and now it's working great for josh

 

[Seph]

he was producing though. i don't see how you can argue with 12 points in 22 games while getting 3rd line minutes and say that's not a producing player. but yes let's keep tanner fritz up with his 2 points in 18 games.

yes we should instead try to coach out their talent and try to develop them into 2-way players. worked really well for strome and dal colle and now it's working great for josh

Apparently you're not reading my posts, considering I've already fully explained that I don't think 3 points in 10 games is producing and I have said nothing about trying to turn him into a 2way player. So I'll just call it a day on this conversation. Good day.

 

[Instant]

if you want JHS to be better at the NHL level you have to play him against NHL defenders. they aren't doing that. they, for some unknown reason, are trying to force him into a being a 2-way forward. that's not his game, and that's ok. you need scorers (especially if you have an entire bottom 6 that doesn't do anything positive)

I know that desperate times call for desperate measures, I just don't understand how JHS could be an answer to our problems here. Sure, his play is flashy and impressive (when it doesn't lead to stupid, stupid turnovers) and he's heavy on the offence and it looks good, but this season is one big confirmation that great offence isn't enough, that a good defence could keep the team from drowning. With solid defence we would look at the first line slump in a completely different way. And sure, the team needs something, I won't disagree with that, but hell, is a player who is a defensive liability what they need? I don't think so.

Besides, Josh Ho-Sang is where he is only because of himself and his attitude and until that changes (sure, it looks like he finally stopped pouting, now he just needs to man up) he deserves to play in Bridgeport.

 

[PK Cronin]

I know that desperate times call for desperate measures, I just don't understand how JHS could be an answer to our problems here. Sure, his play is flashy and impressive (when it doesn't lead to stupid, stupid turnovers) and he's heavy on the offence and it looks good, but this season is one big confirmation that great offence isn't enough, that a good defence could keep the team from drowning. With solid defence we would look at the first line slump in a completely different way. And sure, the team needs something, I won't disagree with that, but hell, is a player who is a defensive liability what they need? I don't think so.

Besides, Josh Ho-Sang is where he is only because of himself and his attitude and until that changes (sure, it looks like he finally stopped pouting, now he just needs to man up) he deserves to play in Bridgeport.

If you don't have the players or coaches to play that defensive game, it's at least better to go all the way in on offense and try to win that way. Aho isn't going to help the defensive problems, neither is or was any other call up from the AHL. Better to try to just out score your opponents and always have the puck.

 

[Sparksrus3]

JT's line is not producing and haven't been on point for a while now.

Do you think it's time to switch things up ad move players around?

If so, who would you move up and down and what should the new lines look like?

Yes , how about we start today for sh--- and giggles since it doesn't matter anymore