Should the Pens consider dealing Letang?

[madinsomniac]

Lordy. For the millionth time, last seasons playoffs are not what you want to model your team off of. Our defense was scraping by without Letang, not doing well despite missing him. At this point I'm just going to assume that anyone else who says we don't need him because of last year doesn't actually watch the games.

The reason to trade Letang is not "we won without him" but "we can make a really good hockey trade and have another 1D/top 2D to take his place".

It wasn't just Letang though... Shultz missed significant time, trevor daley played through a lower body injury almost the whole postseason... we really had no puck movers ... it was more than just tanger being out

 

[Turin]

It wasn't just Letang though... Shultz missed significant time, trevor daley played through a lower body injury almost the whole postseason... we really had no puck movers ... it was more than just tanger being out

Defense was really unable to help the team tilt the ice even with Schultz though.

 

[madinsomniac]

Defense was really unable to help the team tilt the ice even with Schultz though.

Because you need multiple puck movers, not just one...

 

[NMK11]

It wasn't just Letang though... Shultz missed significant time, trevor daley played through a lower body injury almost the whole postseason... we really had no puck movers ... it was more than just tanger being out

Which is 100% true. But at someone else said, even when Schultz and Daley were playing, watching us defend and try to clear the puck last postseason gave me stomach ulcers.

And my post wasn't necessarily meant to say we don't need anything in specific, but there's just a handful of people here who actually think our defense would be better with hainsey rather then Letang and keep pointing to "but we won without him". It's just such an intentional misconstruction of how our defense actually played last postseason.

 

[pistolpete11]

Did PIT win the cup with Letang playing 0 minutes the entire playoffs?

There is your answer on if we should trade Letang or not. You couldn't say the same about Malkin, Crosby, or Murray. Letang is generally a +-0 out there at 5v5 (ie a non difference maker). If that isn't the definition of a player you don't want taking up 7mil/year, then I don't know what is.

Letang is the MAF of defenders.

Did they win the Cup in 2016 (in a much more convincing fashion, I might add) with Letang playing 28min a night? That's not a reason to keep him just like what happened last year is not a reason to trade him.

They should absolutely CONSIDER trading him. Whether they should or not relies completely on the return. Judging Letang's value seems a lot more difficult than most players though. Players of his caliber don't get traded all that often plus throwing in the salary, injury history, etc. I imagine some GM's would be scared off by that. Other's might be willing to take the risk, but would they also be willing to pony up enough to make it worth it for the Pens?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Which was to be expected given the departures over the off-season. I guess I'm just a little annoyed that we didn't really step up and find a good replacement for Tocchet in the off-season, since Recchi doesn't seem to have as much effect in that spot and it feels like another good-ol-boy hire.

Tocchet was a "hey bud need a job?" hire too by Mario & Co, but that one worked out very well with Tocchet, but I think after Rex is gone this summer (please let there be a god) I think Sullivan should be hiring his own go to guy that he knows will keep him in line and tell him like it is.

 

[KIRK]

Did they win the Cup in 2016 (in a much more convincing fashion, I might add) with Letang playing 28min a night? That's not a reason to keep him just like what happened last year is not a reason to trade him.

They should absolutely CONSIDER trading him. Whether they should or not relies completely on the return. Judging Letang's value seems a lot more difficult than most players though. Players of his caliber don't get traded all that often plus throwing in the salary, injury history, etc. I imagine some GM's would be scared off by that. Other's might be willing to take the risk, but would they also be willing to pony up enough to make it worth it for the Pens?

Pony up what?

What Letang was worth in 2016 or what Letang is worth now, because those are two different animals . . .

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Speaking of Recchi... Maybe he and Sid still don't like each other, and Sid looking disengaged this season is related to that.

 

[KIRK]

Speaking of Recchi... Maybe he and Sid still don't like each other, and Sid looking disengaged this season is related to that.

I don't think that is it, but speaking of Recchi . . . if there's anything that inspires confidence like a Letang 20/80 pinch decision, it's a Recchi 'coach speaking' during a bench interview.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pony up what?

What Letang was worth in 2016 or what Letang is worth now, because those are two different animals . . .

If you make it to the ECF or Stanley Cup Finals this year or next, you have to consider the Letang contract a win regardless of what we get back for him.

I still think at this point if Rutherford pulls the trigger in the offseason we can get a solid pick (top ten at minimum) and roster player / prospect.

 

[zero8771]

If you make it to the ECF or Stanley Cup Finals this year or next, you have to consider the Letang contract a win regardless of what we get back for him.

I still think at this point if Rutherford pulls the trigger in the offseason we can get a solid pick (top ten at minimum) and roster player / prospect.

If the pens win the cup when letang is playing much better... And you keep him

 

[Gurglesons]

O

If the pens win the cup when letang is playing much better... And you keep him

I guess. Maybe for the year, but contracts are about to catch up to us HARD. We have to make the smart play if we want to continue being contenders and while I think Letang has never been as good as prime Keith and always been better than prime Seabrook, you’ve got to look there and realize what could happen.

And I feel like I am the biggest Letang apologist in the board.

 

[Tender Rip]

I think this needs to be addressed. Letang’s issue isn’t IQ related. He overthinks the play. He overcommits to offensive pinches thinking he can dazzle.

If anything he needs to think LESS and play a calmer game and his coaches have said as much. Letang was ridiculed by Sullivan on how much tape he watches.

Getting my Forrest Gump moment here: Stupid is as stupid does.

He can watch all the video he wants, but if it doesn’t lead to improved reads and performance, what does that say? At best you can say that he is comitted to the task, but that was never in question, IMO.

Nonetheless, a monkey with a preference for flipping the pages of a book on physics is not going to become a quant on Wall Street.

We’re talking hockey IQ here, and there is just no way I can look back on 10 years of Letang in a Pens sweater and not conclude that lack of it is his principal weakness; actually, what has always prevented him from being truly great. Something he otherwise definitely has or had the physical gifts to aspire to.

 

[madinsomniac]

Pony up what?

What Letang was worth in 2016 or what Letang is worth now, because those are two different animals . . .

This means one has to make an honest evaluation of whether Tanger is likely going to improve or decline more from this point on....

If the front office can look at the issues he has had this season and say that the mental ones are correctable and physically he is not on the decline then maybe you hold on and hope for the best, But.....

If you cant teach and old dog new tricks, if he cant be trusted to stay healthy and play great, if you think he is losing a step and another is coming in the next two years, then you absolutely take what you get and move on...

Bail too early and you give up a top ten defender in the league undervalue

Bail too late... well im reminded of the story of the guy trying to help people get a hot air balloon under control in a storm... it broke free and everyone else let go of the ropes but he held on... he could have jumped off when it was a few feet off the ground but he didn't realize how quickly it would rise...

By the time people were yelling at him to let go he was high enough that he knew he'd get hurt so he yelled he didn't want to

By the time the wind or fatigue finally did knock him off, he was probably a hindred feet off the ground and far enough away from the carnaval that even if he survived, rescue wasn't getting to him quickly.... he died...

The moral is sometimes when a situation is about to start spiraling out of control you have to bail early... and if you don't, you must let go asap or you risk going from a painful landing to a lethal one...

That isn't to say Letang can't convince you otherwise this postseason, but he is a huge risk either way

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I need to see how Letang contributes to this post season. He's a veteran and should step up his game a bit. If he does, then we know it was just a case of holding back for what counts. If he doesn't I think the team needs to take a look at their options.

One thing, he is paid like a star player on this team. He needs to shine or go fill someone else's sky.

 

[Shady Machine]

Tocchet was a "hey bud need a job?" hire too by Mario & Co, but that one worked out very well with Tocchet, but I think after Rex is gone this summer (please let there be a god) I think Sullivan should be hiring his own go to guy that he knows will keep him in line and tell him like it is.

Honest question. Does anyone actually know what impact the assistants have? We went from hating Tocchet during the MJ year+ to loving him based on what? Now people think Recchi sucks. What evidence do we have for either of these views?

 

[Peat]

Honest question. Does anyone actually know what impact the assistants have? We went from hating Tocchet during the MJ year+ to loving him based on what? Now people think Recchi sucks. What evidence do we have for either of these views?

Being generous... a few newspaper articles stating that Tocchet was the go-between between Sully and Kessel, strong rumours about dressing room trouble between Sully and players. The circumstantial evidence of a dip in performance and line selection (if you think there's been a dip there).

 

[Shady Machine]

Being generous... a few newspaper articles stating that Tocchet was the go-between between Sully and Kessel, strong rumours about dressing room trouble between Sully and players. The circumstantial evidence of a dip in performance and line selection (if you think there's been a dip there).

Right. Kessel is having the best statistical season of his career, so looks like Tocchet the Kessel whisperer thing can die. Se we are left with what, a few less wins than last year from a team that was exhausted and had crappy center depth out of the gate.

Just seems like some posters are trying to make factual statements based on shoddy evidence.

I'll admit, I did that a lot with Morehouse near the end of the Shero years as well as hating on Guerin without much evidence.

 

[Peat]

Right. Kessel is having the best statistical season of his career, so looks like Tocchet the Kessel whisperer thing can die. Se we are left with what, a few less wins than last year from a team that was exhausted and had crappy center depth out of the gate.

Just seems like some posters are trying to make factual statements based on shoddy evidence.

I'll admit, I did that a lot with Morehouse near the end of the Shero years as well as hating on Guerin without much evidence.

Yeah, I do sometimes wonder where Kessel's career season fits into the narrative of breaking up Sully-Tocchet being a bad thing for this team... but to be fair, Tocchet's Kessel-whispering thing is being taken as a coach-player go-between for the whole team, not just Kessel. Iirc, some of the reports suggested as much, but this long ago... I'll try a wee google.

edit: Nothing but a few generic articles about how the Pens would miss him and his ability to connect with players.

 

[Andy99]

Is Sullivan’s rep Torts-level bad with the players? Never really heard that....

 

[Clare2904]

Masterton nominee

 

[Pancakes]

I mean what do you guys realistically think we'd get for Letang anyways? The most valuable thing we'd get is cap space, and who knows what players we could use that on.

Otherwise, we'd likely get a first (who cares), a prospect (who cares), and a roster player (fine, but whoever it is would be worse than Letang). That's the typical package for a guy like Letang, and we're not a team at the moment that gives a crap about futures.

I don't see a Letang trade that doesn't immediately make us worse unless we use that cap space to get Tavares or something and that ain't happening.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I mean what do you guys realistically think we'd get for Letang anyways? The most valuable thing we'd get is cap space, and who knows what players we could use that on.

Otherwise, we'd likely get a first (who cares), a prospect (who cares), and a roster player (fine, but whoever it is would be worse than Letang). That's the typical package for a guy like Letang, and we're not a team at the moment that gives a crap about futures.

I don't see a Letang trade that doesn't immediately make us worse unless we use that cap space to get Tavares or something and that ain't happening.

Futures can be traded though. Doesn’t mean that’s what we are stuck with. If we play it right we can come out better.

It’s a gamble though. Can Letang get back to what he used to be? JR would have the most data on that and he’ll go from their. I have no doubt his name will be thrown out there.

Oppossing GM’s were worried about health not his play. This season should alleviate some concerns about health and his stats are pretty good so there will be some decent offers.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean what do you guys realistically think we'd get for Letang anyways? The most valuable thing we'd get is cap space, and who knows what players we could use that on.

Otherwise, we'd likely get a first (who cares), a prospect (who cares), and a roster player (fine, but whoever it is would be worse than Letang). That's the typical package for a guy like Letang, and we're not a team at the moment that gives a crap about futures.

I don't see a Letang trade that doesn't immediately make us worse unless we use that cap space to get Tavares or something and that ain't happening.

Depends on how the D plays this off season.

I could see us getting a top ten pick and a solid prospect, plus roster player at the draft for Letang.

 

[Pancakes]

Depends on how the D plays this off season.

I could see us getting a top ten pick and a solid prospect, plus roster player at the draft for Letang.

We'd need that pick/prospect to help in a hurry or it would be a waste of a trade imo.

Unless the roster player + cap space lead to an improved team otherwise. Which is possible, but hard to say how we'd use it. JR is awesome at trades but I don't know that he has the greatest track record with FA signings.