Should the Caps trade Brouwer.

[Sam Spade]

Hell no! Guys like Brouwer win you the Cup.

About two minutes into the first practice it will be a non-issue.

 

[Todos a la Calle]

Turns out trading brouwer was a good move!

 

[twabby]

A 29 year old, all-situations, gritty character right winger traded at his peak value for a vastly superior player before being given a regrettable contract a year later by some other team.

Folks...I think there's a lesson to learn here.

 

[Roric]

I remember exactly where I was when we traded Brouwer for Oshie..so hyped and huge for the cup. Then there were the mains trying to say we lost that trade lol..

 

[Hivemind]

This was a weird bump

 

[HTFN]

A 29 year old, all-situations, gritty character right winger traded at his peak value for a vastly superior player before being given a regrettable contract a year later by some other team.

Folks...I think there's a lesson to learn here.

The lesson to learn here is that you think the two are comparable players and shouldn't be taken seriously until you stop f***ing around with word games.

 

[um]

The lesson to learn here is that you think the two are comparable players and shouldn't be taken seriously until you stop f***ing around with word games.

They aren’t that comparable when comparing the quality of the players, but the situation we’re in is comparable.

If we can trade the “proven winner” for a clearly better player, we should.

 

[um]

I remember exactly where I was when we traded Brouwer for Oshie..so hyped and huge for the cup. Then there were the mains trying to say we lost that trade lol..

I remember that too. Did we also get Williams that day too?

It’s hard to believe Oshie ever had a playoff choker reputation. He’s one of the best playoff beast we’ve ever had.

 

[HTFN]

They aren’t that comparable when comparing the quality of the players, but the situation we’re in is comparable.

If we can trade the “proven winner” for a clearly better player, we should.

It isn't really at all, and the way you can tell is that Brouwer was a stat accumulator that didn't do anything and Wilson is an actual piece to a puzzle. You can try to parse out ways to make them equal by doing things like "won cup, scored X goals, hits sometimes" but they aren't in the same universe as hockey players and everybody who watched both of them should know that.

Yeah, if someone wants to trade you something silly for Wilson maybe you do it but I have yet to see an actual answer from that side of the table that isn't very unlikely to require extra parts (Marner/Nylander) or a total gamble like Byfield and not an already obviously immediate upgrade like Oshie was.

Oshie was like a 20 point upgrade on Brouwer, played as/probably more physical (Brouwer loved to bump into guys after they'd passed the puck and call that a hit, Oshie's a little pit bull, I considered it an upgrade), and was lightyears more talented. If that guy exists in a trade we can talk about moving Wilson but what team is trading their more physical, more talented version of Tom Wilson who scores more?

 

[um]

It isn't really at all, and the way you can tell is that Brouwer was a stat accumulator that didn't do anything and Wilson is an actual piece to a puzzle. You can try to parse out ways to make them equal by doing things like "won cup, scored X goals, hits sometimes" but they aren't in the same universe as hockey players and everybody who watched both of them should know that.

Yeah, if someone wants to trade you something silly for Wilson maybe you do it but I have yet to see an actual answer from that side of the table that isn't very unlikely to require extra parts (Marner/Nylander) or a total gamble like Byfield and not an already obviously immediate upgrade like Oshie was.

I agree with your assessment of Brouwer, I was not a big fan of the dude.

Marner and Nylander are very clear and huge upgrades for the Caps. We need a top line forward to relieve of Ovie of carrying this team. Wilson is a great support player that can play anywhere, but he’s no star.

My thinking is we need to replace Kuzy and Backstroms elite offence, and I’m willing to give up a 29 year old Wilson for that.

 

[HTFN]

I agree with your assessment of Brouwer, I was not a big fan of the dude.

Marner and Nylander are very clear and huge upgrades for the Caps. We need a top line forward to relieve of Ovie of carrying this team. Wilson is a great support player that can play anywhere, but he’s no star.

My thinking is we need to replace Kuzy and Backstroms elite offence, and I’m willing to give up a 29 year old Wilson for that.

When Wilson was expected to be down for a while they went out and signed a discount version in Brown because it's a necessary and not well-supported part of their depth chart and team to have a guy who can play that way.

Trading Wilson without a plan for that is just trading one hole for another without a subsequent move to fill it. Some of those guys might get the Capitals back to the playoffs (not that Wilson/Carlson can't in a full year, to be honest) but I don't trust them to be more effective winning once you get there.

If I'm gambling like that I think it's easier for Carbery to fix Kuznetsov and Mantha than to GM up a way to get a better player and replace Wilson without paying out the nose and experiencing a net loss in a delicate point of transition.

Replacing the best versions of those players would obviously be ideal but if we're being realistic they don't need to do that, they just need to find a solution better than last year's version. In some cases that can easily be the exact same player with no move to be made at all. Kuznetsov was, like, one of the worst players in the league this year so he just has to perform moderately better and Backstrom just needs a real offseason to have a chance at also being better. Or not playing those guys and letting other options shine. There are a lot of permutations that could still see the Caps in the playoffs without doing anything too drastic

 

[Calicaps]

Did the league think of Brouwer as a unicorn player that all then-30 teams wished they had? No? Then what is the point here?

 

[um]

When Wilson was expected to be down for a while they went out and signed a discount version in Brown because it's a necessary and not well-supported part of their depth chart and team to have a guy who can play that way.

Trading Wilson without a plan for that is just trading one hole for another without a subsequent move to fill it. Some of those guys might get the Capitals back to the playoffs (not that Wilson/Carlson can't in a full year, to be honest) but I don't trust them to be more effective winning once you get there.

If I'm gambling like that I think it's easier for Carbery to fix Kuznetsov and Mantha than to GM up a way to get a better player and replace Wilson without paying out the nose and experiencing a net loss in a delicate point of transition.

I get your thinking. I’m operating on the assumption that Kuzy is gone, and maybe Mantha.

I think the hole of top 6 powerforward will be easier to replace than the hole left from a disgruntled Kuzy and a handicapped Backstrom.

We need offence creators. This teams offence can’t be lead by Ovie and Strome, that’s a lottery team.

 

[twabby]

Did the league think of Brouwer as a unicorn player that all then-30 teams wished they had? No? Then what is the point here?

The point is a team still gave up an excellent player in TJ Oshie for Troy Brouwer. Imagine what a team would give up for Tom Wilson!

 

[HTFN]

I get your thinking. I’m operating on the assumption that Kuzy is gone, and maybe Mantha.

I think the hole of top 6 powerforward will be easier to replace than the hole left from a disgruntled Kuzy and a handicapped Backstrom.

We need offence creators. This teams offence can’t be lead by Ovie and Strome, that’s a lottery team.

I don't necessarily think it will, I just also don't think that now is the ideal time to move Wilson like some folks seem to.

A.) I think Top 6 Power Forward is a soft way to phrase what Wilson does, which is literally everything. Brouwer was even technically one of those at his best (top 6 a slight stretch)

B.) If those players are gone, what are they gone for? Mantha seems pretty unlikely to have a value better than his own rehabbed version so let's take him off the table for now: What's Kuznetsov's return/price to unload?

C.) Let's say the team pulls the trigger asap and trades Wilson for a "line driver" but the Capitals also receive positive improvement from any of that trio of maligned players almost immediately. Are they better off now if they're a playoff team but much easier to beat and desperately missing a Tom Wilson type?

The point is a team still gave up an excellent player in TJ Oshie for Troy Brouwer. Imagine what a team would give up for Tom Wilson!

log out or stop trolling and actually participate.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

When Wilson was expected to be down for a while they went out and signed a discount version in Brown because it's a necessary and not well-supported part of their depth chart and team to have a guy who can play that way.

Trading Wilson without a plan for that is just trading one hole for another without a subsequent move to fill it. Some of those guys might get the Capitals back to the playoffs (not that Wilson/Carlson can't in a full year, to be honest) but I don't trust them to be more effective winning once you get there.

If I'm gambling like that I think it's easier for Carbery to fix Kuznetsov and Mantha than to GM up a way to get a better player and replace Wilson without paying out the nose and experiencing a net loss in a delicate point of transition.

Replacing the best versions of those players would obviously be ideal but if we're being realistic they don't need to do that, they just need to find a solution better than last year's version. In some cases that can easily be the exact same player with no move to be made at all. Kuznetsov was, like, one of the worst players in the league this year so he just has to perform moderately better and Backstrom just needs a real offseason to have a chance at also being better. Or not playing those guys and letting other options shine. There are a lot of permutations that could still see the Caps in the playoffs without doing anything too drastic

You can’t bring the same team back. That is putting a lot on Carbery. Also, just my two cents but if Kuzy doesn’t want to be here get him off the team. You don’t need, nor want that energy in the locker room.

 

[g00n]

Is this a record for necrobumps?

 

[twabby]

log out or stop trolling and actually participate.

It’s not a troll.

In fact I feel like I’m being trolled. I’m trying to be convinced that Wilson is both a one of a kind player AND that he wouldn’t return an absolute haul. Wild stuff really.

 

[HTFN]

You can’t bring the same team back. That is putting a lot on Carbery. Also, just my two cents but if Kuzy doesn’t want to be here get him off the team. You don’t need, nor want that energy in the locker room.

I don't think they will, but some of those elements can't be determined now. If Backstrom comes back healthy, like truly healthy although old and not just treading water out there a lot changes. If Mantha gets over two years of being bad/probably mindf***ed by Laviolette with his therapist a little/lot more changes.

If Laviolette was Kuznetsov's problem on any similar level a lot can change, or if he's just basically told he needs to produce well enough to get out or he won't be traded because they're not going to negotiate through an NTC and a fully dogshit asset.

You can still pivot but these are mostly coaching independent things (outside of Mantha) that just require health/buy in from the individuals involved and could have a big impact on what the team actually needs for the season ahead. I don't think moving Wilson is the offseason move to make, for Michkov or otherwise, because I'd rather find in-season trade solutions for those problems than create a redundancy and miss a guy you know you could have used.

 

[Langway]

 

[HTFN]

It’s not a troll.

In fact I feel like I’m being trolled. I’m trying to be convinced that Wilson is both a one of a kind player AND that he wouldn’t return an absolute haul. Wild stuff really.

Nobody is telling you he wouldn't, they're telling you that the haul doesn't make the team better in the window they need to be better. If the Capitals were further up shit creek the writing would already be on the wall that Wilson is gone by the end of the year, we'd all be debating the return.

They aren't that far up yet and Wilson is one of their best paddles so if they're going to avoid it a little longer... maybe you don't trade a paddle for a backpack full of powerbars

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

I don't think they will, but some of those elements can't be determined now. If Backstrom comes back healthy, like truly healthy although old and not just treading water out there a lot changes. If Mantha gets over two years of being bad/probably mindf***ed by Laviolette with his therapist a little/lot more changes.

If Laviolette was Kuznetsov's problem on any similar level a lot can change, or if he's just basically told he needs to produce well enough to get out or he won't be traded because they're not going to negotiate through an NTC and a fully dogshit asset.

You can still pivot but these are mostly coaching independent things (outside of Mantha) that just require health/buy in from the individuals involved and could have a big impact on what the team actually needs for the season ahead. I don't think moving Wilson is the offseason move to make, for Michkov or otherwise, because I'd rather find in-season trade solutions for those problems than create a redundancy and miss a guy you know you could have used.

Trading a player like Kuzy in season I would think is even more difficult. Also, how many second chances does Kuzy get? I think he may have used up all of his second chances with this mgmt but I guess time will tell. It feels like Kuzy may need to be moved for another player who needs a change of scenery.

Agreed on the Wilson front as I think he is the least of their problems and is a player who wants to be here moving forward.

 

[um]

I don't necessarily think it will, I just also don't think that now is the ideal time to move Wilson like some folks seem to.

A.) I think Top 6 Power Forward is a soft way to phrase what Wilson does, which is literally everything. Brouwer was even technically one of those at his best (top 6 a slight stretch)

B.) If those players are gone, what are they gone for? Mantha seems pretty unlikely to have a value better than his own rehabbed version so let's take him off the table for now: What's Kuznetsov's return/price to unload?

C.) Let's say the team pulls the trigger asap and trades Wilson for a "line driver" but the Capitals also receive positive improvement from any of that trio of maligned players almost immediately. Are they better off now if they're a playoff team but much easier to beat and desperately missing a Tom Wilson type?

A) Wilson is great, no doubt, top 5 power forward in the league. Don’t think he could carry a line though.

B) For Kuzy I imagine a team ready to win now is the more likely target, I don’t imagine building teams wanting to take on Kuzy. So probably draft picks or young players. Getting an impact player is unlikely.

Mantha is a dump, staying is possible.

C) I’m speculating that Kuzy is gone, I also just prefer he is gone. Mantha could go too but it could be foolish to pay too much to get rid of him.

If Backstrom comes back, yeah it’s still worth it. Even younger Backstrom and Ovechkin needed scoring help, these older versions need it even more!

 

[HTFN]

Trading a player like Kuzy in season I would think is even more difficult. Also, how many second chances does Kuzy get? I think he may have used up all of his second chances with this mgmt but I guess time will tell. It feels like Kuzy may need to be moved for another player who needs a change of scenery.

Agreed on the Wilson front as I think he is the least of their problems and is a player who wants to be here moving forward.

I don't really view it as a second chance, I view it as salvage. Like "hey, you did so bad last year that we literally can't reasonably trade you even if you waived for all teams because you phoned it in real bad and sucked and nobody has any faith in you. So this year, if you invest your energy into playing even if it's just playing to get out and you make yourself something somebody wants, we'll do that for you, but if you don't you can figure out what to do in the box seats because this isn't continuing to happen."

And that's obviously just if they can't get a good value trade out of him right now, because if they could I'd take it, but I really think some combination of "play for it if you want it so bad" and Carbery hopefully not being the worst thing to ever happen to this team's skill players might accidentally make him have some fun this year.

A) Wilson is great, no doubt, top 5 power forward in the league. Don’t think he could carry a line though.

B) For Kuzy I imagine a team ready to win now is the more likely target, I don’t imagine building teams wanting to take on Kuzy. So probably draft picks or young players. Getting an impact player is unlikely.

Mantha is a dump, staying is possible.

C) I’m speculating that Kuzy is gone, I also just prefer he is gone. Mantha could go too but it could be foolish to pay too much to get rid of him.

If Backstrom comes back, yeah it’s still worth it. Even younger Backstrom and Ovechkin needed scoring help, these older versions need it even more!

But when that team gets completely beefed on in the run up to the playoffs because they've got "play drivers", Milano, ancient Oshie, no Hathaway, maybe Mantha pretending to be big...?

Who besides Ovechkin is even throwing weight for this team? They become the discount Maple Leafs from around the time when Thornton was the angriest son of a bitch on the team.

 

[um]

It’s not a troll.

In fact I feel like I’m being trolled. I’m trying to be convinced that Wilson is both a one of a kind player AND that he wouldn’t return an absolute haul. Wild stuff really.

Don’t mess with the Tom Wilson fan club Twabby!