CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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Should the Caps Fire Barry Trotz (February 19th)
- Thread starter Midnight Judges
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Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
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But they also don't have the leader behind the bench. That much was obvious when deeper teams than this one essentially were coached by Trotz with a long attrition type stalemate mentality. It's Trotz's M.O. from his decades as an underdog and he's never really re-invented himself here in that regard. Maybe it made sense for that initial heavier team with Brouwer, Ward and Fehr along the boards but not so much the past three seasons. They absolutely need a more progressive thinker behind the bench that teaches pace, understands the primacy of it and the work ethic essential to it. Leadership and the personnel mix are absolutely problems but they don't really even begin to seem to be ambitious based on how they conduct themselves or how they conceive the game generally.
It's not just a matter of believing, it's also doing. It's having the intelligence, maturity and professionalism to go out there and do everything at a level where everyone else can pattern their game after them. The Caps don't have that guy. They haven't since maybe Stevens (?) and that may have been it, like, ever. Leonsis also doesn't even begin to understand the environment needed to promote that level of dedication and humility since he's more than willing to just hype up whatever he gets his hands on from the very beginning. They have a culture of complacency that starts at the top and probably isn't going anywhere regardless. They're more than willing to keep butts in the seats for regular season success and then just BS the rest.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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I think if you asked anyone in the organization, Trotz did a great job leading them out of the depressions of losing again to the Pens to win another division title. To say they don’t have a leader behind the bench is simplistic thinking IMO. Trotz has many warts, but the players have warts too and it shows no matter who the coach is, so far.
Right or wrong, I’m starting to believe there’s no coach in existence and available that wins a Cup with this crew.
Right or wrong, I’m starting to believe there’s no coach in existence and available that wins a Cup with this crew.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
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Trotz was an upgrade over the former player skill specialist with no business being a head coach, sure. He's a reliable enough option for teams in need of stability. There are so many things wrong with this organization outside of him that it's hard to put the blame on him in particular but IMO he's just dated tactically. Pace being what it is today, you can't just try to manage that rather than perfect and enhance your own. It's too passive. Re: his leadership, has he Trotz has ever gotten bent out of shape behind the bench during a playoff game? I can't really recall it aside from maybe having some disagreement with referees. He's too even-keeled. He's the anti-Boudreau in that regard and both extremes are problematic.
They've filtered through coaches but what does that say about the organization to begin with? It's not just terrible infantile players because the only persistent players is down two at this point. IMO it has way more to do with their very basic concept of skill/finesse and how it's sort of hands-off when it comes to refining hockey sense and the like. Players like Burakovsky & Vrana should be further along in that regard but there's no real apparent development going on in those areas. They have their shot quality emphasis and whatnot but it's still too cutesy and not concerned enough with playing with consistent urgency. The thing about Trotz that I always go back to is that his red line is only limited to puck management. Don't turn the puck over and you're good. Everything else can almost be amateurish so long as that cardinal sin is avoided. It's too soft and maybe that's because the players here are used to the complacency and not holding one another accountable elsewhere but in his role he hasn't applied that accountability strongly enough.
They've filtered through coaches but what does that say about the organization to begin with? It's not just terrible infantile players because the only persistent players is down two at this point. IMO it has way more to do with their very basic concept of skill/finesse and how it's sort of hands-off when it comes to refining hockey sense and the like. Players like Burakovsky & Vrana should be further along in that regard but there's no real apparent development going on in those areas. They have their shot quality emphasis and whatnot but it's still too cutesy and not concerned enough with playing with consistent urgency. The thing about Trotz that I always go back to is that his red line is only limited to puck management. Don't turn the puck over and you're good. Everything else can almost be amateurish so long as that cardinal sin is avoided. It's too soft and maybe that's because the players here are used to the complacency and not holding one another accountable elsewhere but in his role he hasn't applied that accountability strongly enough.
kmart
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2008
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i think a guy like mike babcock could get them over the hill, thinking of him... didnt the caps clean the house while he was out of detroit, i know he is a gm/coach but why was he not considered, was he even available at that time. to be honest i dont follow the caps office anymore, i even forgot the name of the caps gm -_-
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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Not many hockey organizations who don’t filter through coaches over a 12 year span.
But yeah, Trotz has warts.
But yeah, Trotz has warts.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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I don’t believe it for one second. Babcock is flailing to not get swept at this point lol.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
I came to this conclusion a long time ago. Trotz had us very close though. I'll repeat this for the 100th time but if we beat the Pens in G7 last year, we would've been almost certain to win the Cup. I don't think there's a magic coach out there that will make this group of guys play like champions. It has to come from within, from the players. Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that we had the wrong timing. The supporting cast sucked when Ovi was the best player in the world. By the time we built a strong supporting cast, Ovi was not even close to being the best player in the world anymore.
He's doing much better again this season, his best since 2010, and then we have Kuzy and Carlson having career years. Unfortunately, the rest of the personnel leaves a lot to be desired. Only thing that can compensate for that is Grubauer. Our playoff hopes pretty much hinge on the goalies now.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
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So if you go into a restaurant and all the servers and cooks are not doing their jobs you're not going to wonder about the manager? And the manager's boss will just accept "it's not my fault, my employees stink"?
g00n
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https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Ownership-U-S-Navy-SEALs/dp/1250067057
Good place to start to end the excuses.
Good place to start to end the excuses.
Jan 10 2018 Washington Post:
Trotz -"I realized I want to have a Cup, but I may not get it as a coach, it may come as a scout or a GM; it may come in a different form. I don't know. I still want to be part of a Cup winner. I would like to be the coach, but I wish I could say 'yeah, it's going to happen, it's going to happen', but I don't know if it is."
This is your chance, Barry.
Trotz -"I realized I want to have a Cup, but I may not get it as a coach, it may come as a scout or a GM; it may come in a different form. I don't know. I still want to be part of a Cup winner. I would like to be the coach, but I wish I could say 'yeah, it's going to happen, it's going to happen', but I don't know if it is."
This is your chance, Barry.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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After you’ve fired the 3rd manager (and another just said no thanks and walked away), just maaaaaybe the owner of the restaurant should do a better analysis of the issue and look deeper at the cooks and servers. This isn’t difficult to grasp.
g00n
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maacoshark
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The one guy you didn't mention was Backstrom. His numbers were a bit down this year but he was strong down the final stretch. We had a lot of guys underachieve this season. Our defensive play tailed off drastically and goaltending was an issue too. Including Grubauer. He really struggled early in the season and when he did get hot the majority of his wins were against offensively challenged teams.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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I never said you don’t....wtf....my 6 yr old pays closer attention dude.
Keep blaming coach after coach....the players have major culpability in this franchise’s failures too. When the stars are retired and gone, people will be able to analyze it fairly. Clearly that’s not happening today for some.
Calicaps
NFA
We have what? Two or three guys o the roster who have run through all the coaches? How can anyone argue the team hasn't changed? And does anybody believe this team is better without Ovie? Backstrom is maybe arguable depending on who would replace him, but that's a short list.
The problem is Leonsis and Patrick. They are the constants. They are the ones who let McPhee squander Ovie's prime with an AHL D corps and rookie coaches while proven Cup winners went elsewhere. They are the ones who stood by as he traded FF for nothing. They are the ones who so desperately want to cultivate this dynastic image that they'll hire anyone who worked for the organization ever over the right people.
Say what you want about the players, but they are the bottom of the organizational hierarchy. The misplaced priorities and losing mentality come from the top down, not the bottom up.
The problem is Leonsis and Patrick. They are the constants. They are the ones who let McPhee squander Ovie's prime with an AHL D corps and rookie coaches while proven Cup winners went elsewhere. They are the ones who stood by as he traded FF for nothing. They are the ones who so desperately want to cultivate this dynastic image that they'll hire anyone who worked for the organization ever over the right people.
Say what you want about the players, but they are the bottom of the organizational hierarchy. The misplaced priorities and losing mentality come from the top down, not the bottom up.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
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Yeah, stuff the insults. What she said above.
Also "They choke, not the coach" is not blaming everyone. Stop it.
Last edited:
Lindemann
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2017
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So who’s out there to replace Trotz after he probably blows another playoff?
I would love AV or Sutter but I think having a young fresh mind is the way to go nowadays
I don’t want Reierden for the fact he is associated with Trotz
I would love AV or Sutter but I think having a young fresh mind is the way to go nowadays
I don’t want Reierden for the fact he is associated with Trotz
Vigneault has his quirks, too. He sure loved Tanner Glass. His handling/developing of younger players are almost as bad as Trotz. The game has passed him. Tortorella would be a better option, if he becomes available.
hockeykicker
Moderator
- Dec 3, 2014
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lol rangers fans hated AV and his love for tanner glass. hes literally trotz 2.0 with his love of random players
take a look at babcock and his crazy love with dan cleary
hockeykicker
Moderator
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Sheldon Keefe hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com
I wonder if they take a look at this guy
I wonder if they take a look at this guy
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
False analogy g00ner, a kitchen needs an incredible level of coordination between all the cooks and the server. The chef in a kitchen would be the equivalent of a player-coach in hockey.
trick9
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2013
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That is the only thing similar between him and Trotz really. Vigneault has his teams play fast offensive hockey whereas Trotz is what he is.
Most coaches have that. You already mentioned Babcock and if you search through 'hawks, Kings and Penguins forums you'd see that their coaches drive them crazy in that regard too.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
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Not false at all but you can sub in any hierarchical organization if you don't like basic service industry analogies.
Every team has levels of leadership and accountability. What's being said, in a contrarian vein most likely, is that the coach doesn't choke and it's on the players to produce. This is just not how the real world works. Accountability works upwards. That doesn't mean there's no accountability at the bottom, it means the greater and final responsibility rests with the person who is IN CHARGE. That is literally the definition of their job...to get results from their team and take responsibility for that mission.
Is gmbm the right guy? If not, replace him.
Is BT the right guy? If not, replace him.
Is player x the right guy? If not, replace him.
So start at the bottom. Has BT had a roster good enough to win the Cup? If "yes" then gmbm has shown he can do the job and your next glance is at BT. If no then that relieves some of the pressure on BT and some of the players. Get a better GM who will assemble the right team, then re-evaluate.
Has BT had the players to win the Cup in his time here, and in Nashville?
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