Should rules change for defected players?

[NOA]

Or we potentially get a better balance in the league without the London's and Windsor's getting stacked by the spoiled kids dictating the draft.

Erie has found a way to fight it. So has SSM. Erie just had Drysdale force his way to them. I actually think the gap with London getting every player is shrinking not growing. And Windsor? They are right there with Kitchener. Still a top destination but they aren’t on the same level of London. And again, those gaps are shrinking more than growing imo

 

[Habsfan18]

Who are the top players that are considered most likely to not report?

Cuylle, Perfetti, Stranges, Power, Peterson?

 

[hockeylegend11]

Who are the top players that are considered most likely to not report?

Cuylle, Perfetti, Stranges, Power, Peterson?

If I were guess I would say Cuylle, Perfetti,Power.

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

If I were guess I would say Cuylle, Perfetti,Power.

Hammer meet nail

 

[Fischhaber]

Erie has found a way to fight it. So has SSM. Erie just had Drysdale force his way to them. I actually think the gap with London getting every player is shrinking not growing. And Windsor? They are right there with Kitchener. Still a top destination but they aren’t on the same level of London. And again, those gaps are shrinking more than growing imo

Further crackdowns on the team or teams that use indirect financial compensation to attract players will only serve to help with balance in the draft. There are still too many players that get funneled to this team or teams because of the compensation that they are promised. It's not necessarily illegal under current rules, but players that have been traded will tell you about some major 'rewards' that they get that play a huge role in recruiting, perhaps the biggest role.

 

[LDN]

If I were guess I would say Cuylle, Perfetti,Power.

Come home to London

 

[GangGreen]

Further crackdowns on the team or teams that use indirect financial compensation to attract players will only serve to help with balance in the draft. There are still too many players that get funneled to this team or teams because of the compensation that they are promised. It's not necessarily illegal under current rules, but players that have been traded will tell you about some major 'rewards' that they get that play a huge role in recruiting, perhaps the biggest role.

Oh do tell!
Sounds like you have some good sources!

 

[Fischhaber]

Oh do tell!
Sounds like you have some good sources!

Nothing that you couldn't find out from most players in the league, but I sent you a message with more info.

 

[LDN]

In actual fact yes London is a top end destination for sure, but its due to how great the organization has been and become. They have produced so much NHL talent and you cant argue with that. They run everything as professional as possible and have created a winning culture. I admire the business talent that the Hunters have, but I admire that they have a great team of management behind them

 

[Rubbers29]

I know that is close to the going rate but it is getting ridiculous! I would be fine with the payment if it didn’t include the comp 1st rnd pick. But say it’s 4- 2nds and 3 - 3rds, throw in the comp 1st and that team is getting 8 high end picks including 1 right after the position they just picked in for waiting a year on an obviously rebuilding team anyway!

I would prefer something along the lines of the team receiving the defected player forfeits their 1st rnd pick the following year, the team losing the player gets a comp pick 1 position later (as it is now) leaving 20 picks per round, as well as the receiving team must also give their next 2nd round pick to the losing team. Teams can only claim or declare a defected player once in 3 years, and in case of multiple teams wishing to claim the player, much like waivers the lowest seeded team from the previous year would get first rights. You could also throw in the stipulation that the defected player must submit a list of 5 eligible teams that they would be willing to play for and must sign with whatever team from the list wins their rights.

This would keep franchises from exploiting the rule to load up multiple picks for the future, it would keep the players from dictating they will only play for 1 team and it wouldn’t allow 1 team to consistently pick up the defected players.

This is just off the top of my head I am sure there are a million problems with this scenario, but I think it would be better then the current system

I posted about this yesterday is the London thread when the Cuylle subject came up. It’s a tough subject, different players have different reasons for wanting to play certain places. I agree players should not be allowed to dictate they play for team X but I can accept that some players for whatever reason aren’t willing to give up full ride NCAA scholarships to go somewhere that doesn’t fit where they want to be, whether it be schooling options, amenities etc...

Sure you could tell the player straight up it’s where you’re drafted or nothing, but with the increased # of players getting drafted from NCAA and the USHL the league isn’t going to do that

 

[OMG67]

In actual fact yes London is a top end destination for sure, but its due to how great the organization has been and become. They have produced so much NHL talent and you cant argue with that. They run everything as professional as possible and have created a winning culture. I admire the business talent that the Hunters have, but I admire that they have a great team of management behind them

I’m just being real here. People that know me, know I am a very pragmatic person. When I say what I am about to say, I do it because of my pragmatism. It isn’t about jealousy.

I am 99% certain that int he early Hunter days of the London Knights, they were giving additional incentive to players. They were bending and breaking rules. They did it very well. Hey, if you ain’t cheatin’ you ain’t tryin’.

Unfortunately for Windsor, they got caught. London didn’t. Hell, even my hometown Ottawa 67’s have probably bent the rules more than what is allowed.

In saying that, it gave London a competitive advantage. They were able to use the added revenue from their new building and reputation of the Hunters to gain that advantage. The combination of the newly minted Hunters as owners/managers/coaches, solid revenue base and willingness to spend that money outside the rules changed the way the OHL operated. In the early Hunter days (2003-2007) that advantage built a stable operation. It gained a certain reputation. The ability of the coaches and management to provide solid development to top tier players was something that has perpetuated itself into not needing to bend the rules.

What I say is like Michael Corleone using all his ill gotten wealth to set up a legitimate business and no longer doing anything illegal.

I know I will be asked if I have any proof. But, let’s face it. We all know it happened. Just like we know OJ killed Nicole. So, let’s not go there.

That brings us to today. Are the Knights playing new games of shenanigans outside the rules? I don’t believe they are. I don’t believe they have since around 2009. I think those shenanigans from back then helped to build their organizational strength. It helped to build their reputation. The quality of their coaching was able to take advantage of those shenanigans. They opened a lot of eyes of top flight players that wanted to develop. Once the Knights organization was able to show those players they would thrive under the Knights care, they wanted to go there. They knew they would be treated like pro’s. IT was at that point they no longer needed to play games. Now, they don’t need to do anything other than sit back and wait for players to come to them. Provided they continue to maximize the potential of players and continue to develop them at a high level, players will always continue to seek them out.

So, even though the knights “more than likely” cheated in the early days, they were able to translate that ill gotten wealth into a winning organization. Other organizations could have done what they did attracting players but would they have had the same success? Probably not.

You cannot penalize the Knights for being really darn good at developing players and winning games. The time for penalizing the Knights for past illegal moves is long gone. It is time for fans of the OHL to stop whining about it. They did what they did and it helped build a dynasty. But it was their ability to manage and develop those assets and translate it into winning that now attracts top talent.

So, I think it is time for threads like these to stop. Kids deserve to be treated to the level of their ability. If they don’t want to move to Ottawa or SSM or Peterborough to play hockey, rules are now in place to compensate those teams very handsomely.

Do like Owen Sound and SSM. DON’T GET BITTER....GET BETTER!

 

[Section7fan]

Erie has found a way to fight it. So has SSM. Erie just had Drysdale force his way to them. I actually think the gap with London getting every player is shrinking not growing. And Windsor? They are right there with Kitchener. Still a top destination but they aren’t on the same level of London. And again, those gaps are shrinking more than growing imo

Erie was fortunate enough to land McDavid and that is the same as having a huge magnet on your team; who would say no to the opportunity of playing with a talent like that? Its not good for the league. It's not fun as a fan to watch a league that is not a level playing field.

 

[BigBuck]

Why aren't we talking about the reasons why parents don't want to send there kids to some of these teams? Maybe some teams don't care if kids go to school, party,drink etc. Make your program better with coaching, facilities,discipline etc. where I can trust sending my kid there. My kid is 15 and I need some assurances that he is going to be looked after if he is going to be 400 miles away....

 

[Fischhaber]

Erie was fortunate enough to land McDavid and that is the same as having a huge magnet on your team; who would say no to the opportunity of playing with a talent like that? Its not good for the league. It's not fun as a fan to watch a league that is not a level playing field.

What happened in Erie was fantastic for the OHL. McDavid helped to turn a somewhat unstable organization into a huge positive for the league and a strong foothold in the United States. That's huge if we want to keep attracting high end American (and Canadian) players from the NCAA. I hope that the same thing happens in Flint and Saginaw.

 

[Fischhaber]

Why aren't we talking about the reasons why parents don't want to send there kids to some of these teams? Maybe some teams don't care if kids go to school, party,drink etc. Make your program better with coaching, facilities,discipline etc. where I can trust sending my kid there. My kid is 15 and I need some assurances that he is going to be looked after if he is going to be 400 miles away....

I can only speak for my hometown team, but the league's top educational track record is often cited by players as a reason why they come to the Soo. Rasmus Sandin said that it was the deciding factor for him.

There have been some instances of partying a little too hard, but they were dealt with efficiently. These are teenagers after all.

Do you have any specific examples of teams that don't treat players well?

 

[OMG67]

I can only speak for my hometown team, but the league's top educational track record is often cited by players as a reason why they come to the Soo. Rasmus Sandin said that it was the deciding factor for him.

There have been some instances of partying a little too hard, but they were dealt with efficiently. These are teenagers after all.

Do you have any specific examples of teams that don't treat players well?

It may not be about treatment so much as access.

I am pretty sure all the players that want to in Ottawa attend Blyth Academy. It is an International Private School. I know there are only a handful of teams that can offer this type of schooling. I believe Oshawa and London also offer Blyth.

I know other teams may offer other private school options. But, there are some teams that either cannot or do not offer private school. This can be a deterrent for some players.

I am speaking in general terms as I am not informed enough to go any further with additional information. If anyone else out there can expand on what I am saying it would be good to know.

 

[NOA]

What happened in Erie was fantastic for the OHL. McDavid helped to turn a somewhat unstable organization into a huge positive for the league and a strong foothold in the United States. That's huge if we want to keep attracting high end American (and Canadian) players from the NCAA. I hope that the same thing happens in Flint and Saginaw.

Nobody will ever deny that McDavid was huge. Adding Dave Brown and better scouting played a big role as well. Those can’t be ignored. And coaching/new arena has helped. McDavid was big but Erie’s drafting beyond him since about 2011 has been top notch. Especially recently with limited picks. They have done it without the college kids. So yes McDavid was enormous in helping but many thought Erie would collapse after. They kept winning. The only reason this was a “down year” was because of trading soooo many picks/players for 4 years. It was inevitable. But they appear to be in position to be back to the top in about 2 years.
So let’s see what Sudbury does with byfield. Having McDavid helped but Erie has turned around their scouting, management, and team philosophy in recent years. That deserves similar credit

 

[Fischhaber]

Nobody will ever deny that McDavid was huge. Adding Dave Brown and better scouting played a big role as well. Those can’t be ignored. And coaching/new arena has helped. McDavid was big but Erie’s drafting beyond him since about 2011 has been top notch. Especially recently with limited picks. They have done it without the college kids. So yes McDavid was enormous in helping but many thought Erie would collapse after. They kept winning. The only reason this was a “down year” was because of trading soooo many picks/players for 4 years. It was inevitable. But they appear to be in position to be back to the top in about 2 years.
So let’s see what Sudbury does with byfield. Having McDavid helped but Erie has turned around their scouting, management, and team philosophy in recent years. That deserves similar credit

I certainly wasn't intending to ignore the contributions of the Otters scouting staff when I said that McDavid helped to turn around the team. It just wasn't really necessary to say so in order to make my point.

 

[NOA]

I certainly wasn't intending to ignore the contributions of the Otters scouting staff when I said that McDavid helped to turn around the team. It just wasn't really necessary to say so in order to make my point.

Gotcha. I understand your point with getting top players to report to sort of jumpstart the rebuild process. Just making sure that it’s recognized that organizations have to be stable elsewhere. Mississauga has been able to attract some big names yet they don’t really have the wins to show for it. Is it because of coaching? Lack of developing/scouting later round picks? I’m not sure and maybe that’s not the perfect example.
Point is that not even McDavid cant make it all go away and fix everything. So certainly not Cuylle or Perfetti can either. Not Byfield with Sudbury either. Better fix the coaching/scouting/management if you want stability. And stability will give you the chance for a guy like Drysdale. Drysdale wanted Erie not because of McDavid but because of stability compared to other teams.

 

[sbpointer]

Or we potentially get a better balance in the league without the London's and Windsor's getting stacked by the spoiled kids dictating the draft.

We also wouldn't have the last couple years of success for the Owen Sound Attack from the boatload of picks they bought with a defected player

 

[foghorn]

With a possibly of 2 or 3 players that may defect this year, the number of 2nds & 3rds that will be traded to acquire these players is getting out of hand. I think the rules need to change. I would suggest a modification to the non-trading of 1st round picks- can only be traded in transactions that involve defected players. This would eliminated the number 2nd & 3rds being traded and the team 1st round pick essentially becomes the compensatory pick (no extra pick from the league).

When trading for such players might look like:
-the following year's 1st plus 2nd or 3rd pick.
-the 1st pick 2 years away, a 2nd and a 3rd should that team already acquired a defected player the previous year.

Your thoughts or alternative changes to the rules???

and the team that gets the defected player loses their 1st pick that year wondering why the receiving team gets someones 1st rounder that doesnt show and also gets their own 1st same year?

 

[foghorn]

We also wouldn't have the last couple years of success for the Owen Sound Attack from the boatload of picks they bought with a defected player

yes totally agree with this regarding OS....we'll see how they draft and develop once all the mete cards are gone

 

[i am papa bear]

I'm curious if anyone knows how many university credits Mete was able to complete in London

 

[LDN]

I’m just being real here. People that know me, know I am a very pragmatic person. When I say what I am about to say, I do it because of my pragmatism. It isn’t about jealousy.

I am 99% certain that int he early Hunter days of the London Knights, they were giving additional incentive to players. They were bending and breaking rules. They did it very well. Hey, if you ain’t cheatin’ you ain’t tryin’.

Unfortunately for Windsor, they got caught. London didn’t. Hell, even my hometown Ottawa 67’s have probably bent the rules more than what is allowed.

In saying that, it gave London a competitive advantage. They were able to use the added revenue from their new building and reputation of the Hunters to gain that advantage. The combination of the newly minted Hunters as owners/managers/coaches, solid revenue base and willingness to spend that money outside the rules changed the way the OHL operated. In the early Hunter days (2003-2007) that advantage built a stable operation. It gained a certain reputation. The ability of the coaches and management to provide solid development to top tier players was something that has perpetuated itself into not needing to bend the rules.

What I say is like Michael Corleone using all his ill gotten wealth to set up a legitimate business and no longer doing anything illegal.

I know I will be asked if I have any proof. But, let’s face it. We all know it happened. Just like we know OJ killed Nicole. So, let’s not go there.

That brings us to today. Are the Knights playing new games of shenanigans outside the rules? I don’t believe they are. I don’t believe they have since around 2009. I think those shenanigans from back then helped to build their organizational strength. It helped to build their reputation. The quality of their coaching was able to take advantage of those shenanigans. They opened a lot of eyes of top flight players that wanted to develop. Once the Knights organization was able to show those players they would thrive under the Knights care, they wanted to go there. They knew they would be treated like pro’s. IT was at that point they no longer needed to play games. Now, they don’t need to do anything other than sit back and wait for players to come to them. Provided they continue to maximize the potential of players and continue to develop them at a high level, players will always continue to seek them out.

So, even though the knights “more than likely” cheated in the early days, they were able to translate that ill gotten wealth into a winning organization. Other organizations could have done what they did attracting players but would they have had the same success? Probably not.

You cannot penalize the Knights for being really darn good at developing players and winning games. The time for penalizing the Knights for past illegal moves is long gone. It is time for fans of the OHL to stop whining about it. They did what they did and it helped build a dynasty. But it was their ability to manage and develop those assets and translate it into winning that now attracts top talent.

So, I think it is time for threads like these to stop. Kids deserve to be treated to the level of their ability. If they don’t want to move to Ottawa or SSM or Peterborough to play hockey, rules are now in place to compensate those teams very handsomely.

Do like Owen Sound and SSM. DON’T GET BITTER....GET BETTER!

Good Post! Well put.
I especially agree with your last point. I would add Erie to that mix as they have also developed a great culture

 

[GangGreen]

I'm curious if anyone knows how many university credits Mete was able to complete in London

King's welcomes six London Knights players as new students - King's University College

None by the looks of it. That pesky NHL got in the way.