Should Ilya Kovalchuk be inducted to the HHOF?

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Honestly, I think that makes him more memorable.

Memorable in a good way though?

Does anyone doubt that Carl Brewer and JC Tremblay would both be in the HHOF if they both stayed in the NHL?

Interesting precedent. If we look at top 10 finishes in goalscoring, Kovy has to be in (thank you everyone in this thread who researched this). But if we look at the way Brewer and Tremblay were treated... How can he be treated better?

 

[Killion]

Memorable in a good way though?

Does anyone doubt that Carl Brewer and JC Tremblay would both be in the HHOF if they both stayed in the NHL?

Interesting precedent. If we look at top 10 finishes in goalscoring, Kovy has to be in (thank you everyone in this thread who researched this). But if we look at the way Brewer and Tremblay were treated... How can he be treated better?

Tremblay yes..... Carl Brewer, sadly, no. The culture of the game wasnt something he could handle. Didnt answer the Bell & it was constantly ringing. Beaked off, trash talked, but... a poser. He ran from the bell, until one night, Murray Balfour caught up to him .

Would not fight & fight you must, mandatory back in the day, be it proactively, in retaliation, sticking up for a teammate. Murray beat him up & forever thereafter Carl played scared. All it would have taken wouldve been for Carl to have thrown some punches & fought back, however, some people simply as a matter of disposition will not fight. A moral conundrum or cowardice, I'm not going to judge.

But he did not answer the Bell despite repeated calls & all hockey players back then st some point absolutely had to if even only once. His arc was over, the ascendancy to a possible HHOF career over in that moment. What Carl accomplished post career however... for that, leading the fight vs the NHL Pension Society & Alan Eagleson, yes, he should be inducted into the Builders Category along with his partner, Sue Foster.

JC Tremblay did not exit the league under the same kind of cloud, that wasnt an issue, entirely different set of circumstances. Its my opinion he shouldve' been long since inducted however as a "Jumper"... WHA... chances slim uh?

 

[Asheville]

LOL for what? Pointing at Crosby as Sid came out of the sin bin?

 

[LeafsNation75]

But let's not induct this guy. Let's induct Patrick 'Anonymous NHL player' Marleau instead.

Since you brought him up look at Marleau's soon to be Hall of Fame resume.

Currently has 528 career goals and 1116 points and counting in the NHL.
2x Olympic Gold Medalist in 2010 and 2014.
2003 World Hockey Championship Gold Medal.
3x NHL All Star.
He also holds virtually every goal scoring record for the San Jose Sharks.

 

[The Panther]

Currently has 528 career goals and 1116 points and counting in the NHL.
2x Olympic Gold Medalist in 2010 and 2014.
2003 World Hockey Championship Gold Medal.
3x NHL All Star.
He also holds virtually every goal scoring record for the San Jose Sharks.

So, basically comparable with Kevin Lowe.

 

[LeafsNation75]

So, basically comparable with Kevin Lowe.

I think his 2 Olympic Golds set him apart. If were using international success for Kovalchuk why can't the same be said for Marleau?

 

[Plural]

How will the induction committee view a guy who bailed from the NHL? I know I know, it's the HOCKEY HALL OF FAME! Right. But the committee will always have majority of pro-NHL members. Rightfully so.

If a player of Kovy's caliber comes in late to the NHL with immensively strong reputation established already and proves he can be an impact player late to his career, the committee probably would view career like that more favorably than established NHL star leaving overseas in controversial manner just to attempt a return after his quarantine is over.

Personal desicions like those probably shouldn't matter, but ask yourself. Do you believe that for the committee they still do matter?

 

[Plural]

I think his 2 Olympic Golds set him apart. If were using international success for Kovalchuk why can't the same be said for Marleau?

Kevin Lowe with 2 Olympic trips (Olympic Gold is a poor measure cause of the vast difference in national strenghts,unless we count Cups too) is a Hall of Famer?

If Marleau was almost unanimous NO after his last Sharks season, I don't see how he has any stronger case now. But he will likely get in for the sheer ability to be a compiler. And here we are arguing if Kovy gets in or not. I don't know if he will or will not be inducted. But there is something wrong with the gut feeling thay says Marleau has stronger chance to make it than Kovy. Longevity my ass. Kovalchuk, for all his deficiensies was on a completely different level than Marleau. No amount of games as compiler should ever make up, let alone surpass that kind of talent difference.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Kevin Lowe with 2 Olympic trips (Olympic Gold is a poor measure cause of the vast difference in national strenghts,unless we count Cups too) is a Hall of Famer?

If Marleau was almost unanimous NO after his last Sharks season, I don't see how he has any stronger case now. But he will likely get in for the sheer ability to be a compiler. And here we are arguing if Kovy gets in or not. I don't know if he will or will not be inducted. But there is something wrong with the gut feeling thay says Marleau has stronger chance to make it than Kovy. Longevity my ass. Kovalchuk, for all his deficiensies was on a completely different level than Marleau. No amount of games as compiler should ever make up, let alone surpass that kind of talent difference.

So Marleau scoring over 500 NHL goals (528 as of right now) and over 1100 points and counting, is still not Hall of Fame material? I'm not saying he will get in the first time he is eligible, I'm asking in general?

 

[Plural]

So Marleau scoring over 500 NHL goals (528 as of right now) and over 1100 points and counting, is still not Hall of Fame material? I'm not saying he will get in the first time he is eligible, I'm asking in general?

No, he is not. He's a good player who was able to become regular NHL'r at young age and had superb luck with injuries. He was good goal-scorer and offensive winger. However,never really demonstrated the ability to be among the best of his position let alone overall. Weak scoring finishes against his peers and outside of offense little to nothing to show for.

Not a bad player by any means, but not once did he have a season when people went "wow, this is a possible Hall of Fame talent". He might get in cause the committee seems to love career numbers but as a comparison to other wingers/forwards in the hall, he'd be one of the absolute worst inductions in the history.

 

[LeafsNation75]

No, he is not. He's a good player who was able to become regular NHL'r at young age and had superb luck with injuries. He was good goal-scorer and offensive winger. However,never really demonstrated the ability to be among the best of his position let alone overall. Weak scoring finishes against his peers and outside of offense little to nothing to show for.

Not a bad player by any means, but not once did he have a season when people went "wow, this is a possible Hall of Fame talent". He might get in cause the committee seems to love career numbers but as a comparison to other wingers/forwards in the hall, he'd be one of the absolute worst inductions in the history.

One of the worst inductions in history seems a little harsh. Personally I say the worst person who was inducted is Bernie Federko.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Kovalchuk = a modern day Carl Brewer or JC Tremblay?

That's pretty fair analogy......

Brewer was not a shoo in had he stayed.

JC Tremblay seemed to almost be getting better as his career went along, plus those teams were so damn good...

Be interesting to see what Kovalchuk's production is like the next couple seasons...

 

[LeafsNation75]

Kevin Lowe with 2 Olympic trips (Olympic Gold is a poor measure cause of the vast difference in national strenghts,unless we count Cups too) is a Hall of Famer?

I forgot to mention this when it comes to Kovalchuk. Fair or not won't some people hold it against him that his Olympic Gold was able to happen since the NHL players were not allowed to participate. You have to think if they were chances are Russia does not win the Gold, because it never happened between 1998-2014. In that time when it was truly a best on best tournament they only managed a Silver in 1998 and Bronze in 2002.

 

[The Panther]

So Marleau scoring over 500 NHL goals (528 as of right now) and over 1100 points and counting, is still not Hall of Fame material?

That's correct. He should not be a Hall of Famer (nor should Andreychuk or Housley, but past is past).

Marleau has exactly nothing over Kovalchuk:

1st/2nd Team All Star
2 Kovalchuk
0 Marleau

PPG-scoring seasons
7 times in 11 seasons - Kovalchuk
3 times in 19 seasons - Marleau

Best season in goals
52 Kovalchuk
44 Marleau

Best season in points
98 Kovalchuk
86 Marleau (beaten by Kovalchuk 4 times)

Top-10 in goals
8 Kovalchuk
2 Marleau

Top-10 in points
5 Kovalchuk
0 Marleau

Times leading NHL team in goals
7 times in 10 seasons - Kovalchuk (would be 8 in 11 but for mid-season trade)
5 times in 19 seasons - Marleau

Times leading NHL team in points
7 times in 10 seasons - Kovalchuk (would be 8 in 11 but for mid-season trade)
3 times in 19 seasons - Marleau

Rookie season
2nd Calder -Kovalchuk
6th Calder - Marleau

World Championships
76 points in 74 games - Kovalchuk
16 points in 32 games - Marleau

Their overall Olympic numbers are similar, but even here Marleau has a measly 2 goals in 13 games.

Other than NHL longevity, about the only thing you could argue Marleau has over Kovalchuk is playoff numbers... but even there, Kovalchuk's measly 32 playoff games saw him score 8 goals in 2012 -- he thus led the NHL playoffs in goals, something Marleau has never done (only once in 17 tries has Marleau scored more than Kovalchuk's 8 that season... and he hit 9).

They're completely different levels of players.

And yes, Kovalchuk should most definitely make the Hall of Fame.

 

[Plural]

One of the worst inductions in history seems a little harsh. Personally I say the worst person who was inducted is Bernie Federko.

One of the worst is not the same as worst.

 

[blood gin]

Kovalchuk's cowardice in leaving the Devils after signing there for some country club mercenary KHL all-star team is a major black mark against him though. I would keep him out of the Hall for that alone.

 

[GlitchMarner]

A couple of questions to consider:

1. How does Kovalchuk compare to Neely (who isn't considered a strong inductee by any means)?

If he's not more deserving of being in the HHOF than Neely, he shouldn't be inducted.

2. How does he compare to Bure?

 

[Plural]

A couple of questions to consider:

1. How does Kovalchuk compare to Neely (who isn't considered a strong inductee by any means)?

If he's not more deserving of being in the HHOF than Neely, he shouldn't be inducted.

2. How does he compare to Bure?

I'd say he's behind Bure but somewhat similar to Neely, although I think Kovalchuk can surpass Neely and possibly already has. This is just coming with my gut feeling.

 

[BlueBull]

Is Datsyuk a Hall Of Famer?



and is that even a good question?

 

[Nick Hansen]

Is Datsyuk a Hall Of Famer?



and is that even a good question?

He's a lock. Three Selke's and a cup. Also a very memorable player with his unique style.

 

[LeafsNation75]

World Championships
76 points in 74 games - Kovalchuk
16 points in 32 games - Marleau

I would leave out the World Championships because Kovalchuk having better numbers means he played on some horrible Atlanta Thrashers teams missing the playoffs a lot, where as Marleau got to play in the playoffs a lot while in San Jose and didn't need to go most years and play for Canada at the Worlds.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

why is Phil 'No Defense whatsoever' Housley in there?

Because he's 4th all-time in defenseman scoring.

Kovalchuk is 136th all-time for forwards.
If he didn't quit on the Devils he'd likely be top 50 by now.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I'd say he's behind Bure but somewhat similar to Neely, although I think Kovalchuk can surpass Neely and possibly already has. This is just coming with my gut feeling.

Not similar to Neely in anything other than goal scoring.

I can't imagine any NHL coach ever preferring Kovy over Neely.

 

[The Panther]

I think, if you were starting out a franchise, you'd definitely take Kovalchuk over Neely. Kovalchuk could do anything offensively, and he could do it on a bad team (which Neely could not -- Vancouver). To be effective, Neely needed some other star-level players around him.

Now, it might be a different story if you had an established franchise with a young, star center already in place, and you needed some grit and scoring on the wing. Then, you'd obviously take Neely.

 

[Iapyi]

National team. I've seen both Ovy and Kovy on the NT a lot, there it is obvious that in an all-around sense of the game, Kovalchuk destroys Ovechkin. The latter may be more aggressive, better suited to the NHL size of the ice an so on but man... Ovy looks like a clown in the NT. He can shoot, that's it.

So very similar to his play in the NHL except he can be a good hitter, especially since he got suspended and quit being such a dirty player.