Speculation: Should Army trade away Jake Allen @ off-season?

Should Army trade away Allen at off-season?


  • Total voters
    42
Status
Not open for further replies.

bluesXwinXtheXcup

Registered User
Apr 14, 2018
1,581
1,089
What you guys think of should Army trade away Jake Allen at this off-season? Sign some UFA goaltender for example Mikko Koskinen who's coming without contract of KHL.

Mikko Koskinen

Run next season with Koskinen/Hutton and if injuries call Husso in.

I can't vote because I'm new. But, I still vote yes. Trade him for a bag of pucks.

What will it take to get Lehner?
 

ort

Registered User
Mar 6, 2012
1,036
1,074
I'm open to the idea depending on who is available to replace him and at what cost.

That said, goaltending is such a weird position these days. No one seems to be able to reach and maintain elite status for very long. I think most teams are better off cheaping out on the position and putting valuable cap space bucks into other positions.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,029
12,744
I'm open to the idea depending on who is available to replace him and at what cost.

That said, goaltending is such a weird position these days. No one seems to be able to reach and maintain elite status for very long. I think most teams are better off cheaping out on the position and putting valuable cap space bucks into other positions.

It's really hard to come up with a 'best practice' guide for goalies. With that said, I'm not sure I agree with you about cheaping out on the goalie. The Pens had $6+ mil tied up in goaltending for their last 2 Cups, The Hawks had $6+ mil tied up in Crawford for their last Cup and the Kings had $5.8 mil in Quick for their 2014 Cup. Quick/Craawford were on their bridge deals for their first Cups so they were cheap.

I think it's more important than ever to have a good 2nd goalie, but I that doesn't mean that you shouldn't spend money on the position since so many backups are stepping in while starters falter. Instead, I think it means that you should just do a better job allocating your goalie budget between two guys.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,029
12,744
Would you pay the same price to move him? We only have so many first round picks.

I'd absolutely trade Allen, Winnipeg's 1st and next year's 1st for another 70 point center with 3 years left at $5ish mil per year. I'd do that with zero hesitation and then allocate $4-5 mil in two goalies who could tandem (Hutton and Bernier are my favorites, but I trust Army to ID a good 2nd goalie).
 

mw2noobbuster

Registered User
Jun 28, 2016
3,835
3,385
Alberta, Canada
I'd absolutely trade Allen, Winnipeg's 1st and next year's 1st for another 70 point center with 3 years left at $5ish mil per year. I'd do that with zero hesitation and then allocate $4-5 mil in two goalies who could tandem (Hutton and Bernier are my favorites, but I trust Army to ID a good 2nd goalie).
An overpaid goalie that isn't very good, late first, and probably another late first probably isn't going to get a 70 point center with term.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,029
12,744
An overpaid goalie that isn't very good, late first, and probably another late first probably isn't going to get a 70 point center with term.

That was the cost of Schenn and moving Lehtera. The question posed was whether we can afford to pay the same cost to move Allen's contrtact as we did with Lehtera and my answer is a resounding yes. We got Schenn for an overpaid center that isn't very good, a late first and probably another late 1st (which turned out to be a mid-first).

We're not going to pay an asset to move Allen unless it is part of a bigger package like Lehtera. We're not just going to trade a 1st to move Allen. If he's moved, it will be part of a larger package and we would be sweetening the pot with another (or a better) asset like we did in the Schenn trade. So if a similar trade is on the table, my answer is absolutely pay the cost we paid to move Lehtera.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mw2noobbuster

TruBlu

Registered User
Feb 7, 2016
6,784
2,923
That was the cost of Schenn and moving Lehtera. The question posed was whether we can afford to pay the same cost to move Allen's contrtact as we did with Lehtera and my answer is a resounding yes. We got Schenn for an overpaid center that isn't very good, a late first and probably another late 1st (which turned out to be a mid-first).

We're not going to pay an asset to move Allen unless it is part of a bigger package like Lehtera. We're not just going to trade a 1st to move Allen. If he's moved, it will be part of a larger package and we would be sweetening the pot with another (or a better) asset like we did in the Schenn trade. So if a similar trade is on the table, my answer is absolutely pay the cost we paid to move Lehtera.

My question would be if Jake is so bad that we are willing to part with a first just to drop him, how do we get anything back that would help the team? The truth is somewhere in between. Jake is inconsistent, but he's shown the ability to play lights out in net. The guy was second star of the month last year and second star of the week this year. Any team has some serious questions to ask in regards to whether they take their chance on him, and I think he's probably in a make it or break it year with this club. However, I don't think his value is nearly as bad as some make out and that many teams needing a legitimate starter would take a chance at him hoping a different system might bring out the best in him. Regardless, there's no way I'd ship out our first to get rid of him. I'd use it in conjunction with someone else, prospect, etc, for a chance at adding a top 6 forward with term.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,029
12,744
My question would be if Jake is so bad that we are willing to part with a first just to drop him, how do we get anything back that would help the team? The truth is somewhere in between. Jake is inconsistent, but he's shown the ability to play lights out in net. The guy was second star of the month last year and second star of the week this year. Any team has some serious questions to ask in regards to whether they take their chance on him, and I think he's probably in a make it or break it year with this club. However, I don't think his value is nearly as bad as some make out and that many teams needing a legitimate starter would take a chance at him hoping a different system might bring out the best in him. Regardless, there's no way I'd ship out our first to get rid of him. I'd use it in conjunction with someone else, prospect, etc, for a chance at adding a top 6 forward with term.

I agree with you. My point was largely that if we decide to move on from Allen this summer, I don't think the cost is anything like Allen+1st for basically nothing. We may have to give up a 1st as part of the package, but we would also be receiving value back like he did with Lehtera. Especially with the cap increasing by $3-5 mil this summer, there will be less cap strapped teams needing to dump bad contracts, which decreases the leverage of bottom feeders hoping to turn cap space into an asset.

I think the model moving forward on cap dumps is trending towards trades like the Schenn deal rather than straight up bribes to take bad contracts. 5 years ago the idea of using free cap space as an asset was new and creative. Now it is a tool that every single rebuilding team will use to maximize the returns on the assets they are selling.
 

MissouriMook

Still just a Mook among men
Sponsor
Jul 4, 2014
7,811
8,138
I think this whole idea that Jake has negative value is way overblown. I could absolutely see a goalie starved team like BUF or NYI taking a flyer on him for a 2nd or a 3rd. His play has been frustrating, but he has shown starter ability so I feel like selling him off for less than what we got for Elliott (or for negative value) isn't going to happen. The question to me is whether or not we're motivated to move him, not CAN we move him.
 

BleedBlue14

UrGeNcY
Feb 9, 2017
6,077
4,556
St. Louis
I'm all for moving Jake if we don't have to pay to do so. I don't see much of an issue in trying to re-sign Hutton under 3/year and having Husso as the back up plan. If Jake shits the bed, ship his ass down to San Antonio and let him try and figure out what the hell the word consistency means. 3x4.35m isn't by any means crippling to a roster that has some decent prospects in the pipeline who look like they may be about ready for some of the high dollar top 6 roles as well as a goalie. Worst case scenario, Jake never finds his game or he his claimed off of waivers and we lose him for nothing.
 

TruBlu

Registered User
Feb 7, 2016
6,784
2,923
I don't think there's any way Jake is moved. I don't currently see anyone available that would be an upgrade. That doesn't mean we couldn't see something come up in free agency, but I don't think we come out on the winning end of a trade involving Jake right now.
 

David Dennison

I'm a tariff, man.
Jul 5, 2007
5,940
1,444
Grenyarnia
I don't think there's any way Jake is moved. I don't currently see anyone available that would be an upgrade. That doesn't mean we couldn't see something come up in free agency, but I don't think we come out on the winning end of a trade involving Jake right now.

The one is Raanta, but he is far from a proven #1. f*** no to Price. Blues have found value in free agency in net, Im fine with bringing back Hutton for another two years, and Husso is waiting in the wings for injury/poor play. Use the savings to improve the team in front of them.
 

ChuckLefley

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
1,665
1,038
It’s funny when people feel a desperate need to label people who don’t share all of their opinions.
 

ChuckLefley

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
1,665
1,038
If the Blues wanted to trade Allen, someone would absolutely trade for him and give up a good price. He has shown that he has the talent and ability to be a top five goalie in this league and a number of GMs would be willing to bet their staff can help him become consistent.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

simon IC

Moderator
Sponsor
Sep 8, 2007
9,219
7,606
Canada
Posting this in a few threads. It sucks to be a Blues fan right now. We are all a little grouchy. I just think it would be a good idea if we all made a conscious effort to limit the snark in our posts. I admit, I can be one of the worst culprits! Just a thought. Peace out. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: stl76 and TruBlu

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
Sponsor
Apr 28, 2014
19,661
9,296
Lapland
If the Blues wanted to trade Allen, someone would absolutely trade for him and give up a good price. He has shown that he has the talent and ability to be a top five goalie in this league and a number of GMs would be willing to bet their staff can help him become consistent.

Only problem Allen can be good goaltender 1 or 2 games of 82 games.

He's listed as GAA 32th in NHL. Allen is currently worst starting goaltender in the league.

NHL.com - Stats
 

TruBlu

Registered User
Feb 7, 2016
6,784
2,923
As mentioned before, Jake has consistency issues and needs to work on that aspect. He's proven he can be a starter and handle a heavy workload. I wonder if there is anything to what Yeo mentioned in the presser about relying on him so heavily. He went long stretches without a break and I wonder if that wore him down. I've also wondered about an issue that was a brought up about Jake not being able to track the puck. I've often wonder if he is suffering from an issue that outfielders in baseball struggle with. I remember our little league coach always telling us to make sure the ball is in your glove before turning your attention to the following pass. One of Jake's qualities is that he is always looking to make that break out pass to get the puck moving the other way. I wonder sometimes if he is thinking about his set up play before dealing with the immediate threat in goal.
 

bluesXwinXtheXcup

Registered User
Apr 14, 2018
1,581
1,089
As mentioned before, Jake has consistency issues and needs to work on that aspect. He's proven he can be a starter and handle a heavy workload. I wonder if there is anything to what Yeo mentioned in the presser about relying on him so heavily. He went long stretches without a break and I wonder if that wore him down. I've also wondered about an issue that was a brought up about Jake not being able to track the puck. I've often wonder if he is suffering from an issue that outfielders in baseball struggle with. I remember our little league coach always telling us to make sure the ball is in your glove before turning your attention to the following pass. One of Jake's qualities is that he is always looking to make that break out pass to get the puck moving the other way. I wonder sometimes if he is thinking about his set up play before dealing with the immediate threat in goal.

The only outfielder Allen reminds me of is Pham, ie he must have an eye problem.
 

TruBlu

Registered User
Feb 7, 2016
6,784
2,923
I've noticed several times that he appears to be looking more at the position of his guys at the blue line instead of tracking the position of the puck, as if he is anticipating getting possession and immediately sending it up to the man breaking the other way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->