Speculation: Should Army trade away Jake Allen @ off-season?

Should Army trade away Allen at off-season?


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Ranksu

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What you guys think of should Army trade away Jake Allen at this off-season? Sign some UFA goaltender for example Mikko Koskinen who's coming without contract of KHL.

Mikko Koskinen

Run next season with Koskinen/Hutton and if injuries call Husso in.
 
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TruBlu

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Feb 7, 2016
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I think we really need to see what we have after the most crucial issue is resolved (scoring). We won't know what we have until then and I bet having at least a league average pp and ppg% would take the focus off of Jake and improve his performance.
 
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Alklha

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Sep 7, 2011
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I think Koskinen is probably a better option than Francouz.

Should we trade Allen?

There is no point in forcing Allen out of the door if we don't have a replacement. Hutton is a backup, he has a long enough track record to show that. Koskinen and Francouz are nothing in the NHL until they proves otherwise, acquiring either one is a replacement for Hutton.

Trading Allen makes sense if we can do it without giving up assets/taking back a bad contract, and we can add someone like Grubauer at a reasonable price. Otherwise we might as well just keep him.
I think we really need to see what we have after the most crucial issue is resolved (scoring). We won't know what we have until then and I bet having at least a league average pp and ppg% would take the focus off of Jake and improve his performance.
I don't buy this excuse.

Hutton done fine with the scoring and PP. Allen collapsed during last season. Elliott consistently outperformed him when he was here.

Allen simply isn't very good. The underlying numbers this season are horrendous, and have got nothing to do with the D, scoring or PP.

We have plenty of other issues, but Armstrong shouldn't just be looking to resolve one/some and hoping that fixes it. Everything should be getting explored.
 

BlueDream

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Aug 30, 2011
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Yeah I also hate the excuse that we put too much pressure on our goalies. It's a false narrative that is really based on nothing.

The Blues allowed 29 shots per game - which was the 3rd fewest in the league, just right behind Boston for the 2nd fewest.

We're usually top 5 in least amount of shots allowed every year.

Yet you will have this spin that our goalies are somehow hung out to dry constantly and are playing in some super difficult situations. Doesn't really seem to be the case.

Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely support fixing the offense first and then looking at the goaltending after that. That's perfectly fine with me. But Allen is who he is, it's not realistic to expect him to become Carey Price just because we improve our offense.
 

Stealth JD

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as with any trade, it depends on the cost.
if he have to send significant assets with Jake...no. Keep him until he rebounds or crashes-and-burns.
if you can move him more or less for "free"...then, yes, if you have another (better) option than 'Peaks and Valleys' Allen, Army should absolutely consider moving him.
 
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carter333167

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Apr 24, 2013
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Completely agree that it's a false narrative that the team puts too much pressure on the goaltenders. If anything, the opposite seems to be true---supported by the stats of Hutton and other goaltenders that have played here, the stats of those same goaltenders after they have gone to other teams, stats regarding quality shots allowed by the Blues, etc. As others have stated above, Allen simply was a bad goaltender this year.

I think this creates a big problem with the team as a whole. The players are forced to defend him even when he is playing poorly, the press gets on Allen, the players get mad at the press, and it all cycles downward.

The goaltender is the most important player on the ice every night...and the goaltender must be consistent and drama free in order to provide the foundation for solid team play. If the goalie is inconsistent and, even worse, creates drama with his play, it will suck the team into a hole. We now have had two seasons in a row where the team endured legitimate mid-season drama over Jake and I can't fathom why we would want to risk a third season of that ilk. It destroys team confidence. I think Jake needs a fresh start somewhere else.
 
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67Blues

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Mar 22, 2013
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The only trade that you can make with Allen that doesn't cost anything is to take someone else's broken goalie who may be more expensive and/or longer term. All that does is either make the problem longer or more expensive. You roll with Allen and use this as the transitional year to get Husso 25 or so games. Next year you roll out a 1A/1B scheme, with hopefully Husso getting at least 40 starts. Allen serves as a backup his last year.

And who knows, maybe Allen has hit rock bottom finally and he works all summer to regain his...nah, who am I kidding. :laugh:
 
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AjaxManifesto

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Mar 9, 2016
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I'm afraid Carter will find a home elsewhere.

His post season interview (on video) was interesting. He knows he has the stats to be a #1 goalie elsewhere.

I'll miss his candor, personality, and steadiness in net.
 
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TruBlu

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I think Carter signs for two years, but isn't given a no trade clause. I think the organization will revisit the idea of Husso backing up Jake in 2019-20, and if he's ready, then they'll look to move Hutton.
 
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Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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I don't think it's a yes/no question. He shouldn't be traded just to get out of the contract if we don't have a way to bring in a clear upgrade. If Army can find a way to trade Allen and get a guy like Grubauer without selling the farm, then it's a no brainer to do it. However, if the plan is trade Allen for little/nothing just to roll out Hutton and a KHL transplant then I think that's a resounding no. I can't think of a single goalie who has had 1st year NHL success coming straight from the KHL. North American ice/hockey is very different from the KHL and there is a heck of an adjustment period. At most, I'd want the KHL transplant as a a backup, but realistically they should spent time in the AHL to acclimate. I'd love to keep Hutton in a situation where we only expect/need 40ish starts out of him, but asking him to start 55-60 scares me just as much as asking Allen to do that. Hutton payed great this year, but he stumbled a tad in the last couple months (injuries likely screwed him there) and he has never done anything like that throughout his entire career.

I think Army should be actively pursuing the goalie market. But I think the most likely outcome is that we need to spend $2.5-$3 mil on a quality guy to tandem with Allen. Even though the term of Allen's deal stings, the cap hit is low enough that we can afford to pay another guy decent money and still spend less on our goaltending than about half the league. It would limit what we can do in free agency and necessitates moving Sobotka (and potentially Bergie too if we want to go crazy with F acquisitions), but I think it would be a good use of cap space if we can't land a bona-fide #1.
 
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GoldenSeal

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Absolutely! The real question is: What can we get for a gently used, playoff proven Jake Allen. We got holes in the lineup, so we're going to need to trade someone, why not him and then sign Carter to roll with Husso? Sounds too much like right, to me.
 
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Cotton McKnight

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Feb 6, 2009
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Unless Shakey Jakey can overcome his mental foibles and stop calling us the head cases, we need to move on. We're not going to be competitive with consistency with or without him until we find a consistent goalie that can handle low shots and not fall apart when the vicious world beating STL journalism starts up.

It's not like Shakey Jakey is playing in Philly or Torotno, head case blames fans for being head cases themselves, time to move along and go plan a golf tourney Shakey.
 
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TruBlu

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I don't think it's a yes/no question. He shouldn't be traded just to get out of the contract if we don't have a way to bring in a clear upgrade. If Army can find a way to trade Allen and get a guy like Grubauer without selling the farm, then it's a no brainer to do it. However, if the plan is trade Allen for little/nothing just to roll out Hutton and a KHL transplant then I think that's a resounding no. I can't think of a single goalie who has had 1st year NHL success coming straight from the KHL. North American ice/hockey is very different from the KHL and there is a heck of an adjustment period. At most, I'd want the KHL transplant as a a backup, but realistically they should spent time in the AHL to acclimate. I'd love to keep Hutton in a situation where we only expect/need 40ish starts out of him, but asking him to start 55-60 scares me just as much as asking Allen to do that. Hutton payed great this year, but he stumbled a tad in the last couple months (injuries likely screwed him there) and he has never done anything like that throughout his entire career.

I think Army should be actively pursuing the goalie market. But I think the most likely outcome is that we need to spend $2.5-$3 mil on a quality guy to tandem with Allen. Even though the term of Allen's deal stings, the cap hit is low enough that we can afford to pay another guy decent money and still spend less on our goaltending than about half the league. It would limit what we can do in free agency and necessitates moving Sobotka (and potentially Bergie too if we want to go crazy with F acquisitions), but I think it would be a good use of cap space if we can't land a bona-fide #1.

That is why I question the blind faith of some on the board who advocate for making Hutton the starter. He's never played anywhere near "starter" level games in a season. He also had the best year of his career. It seems many are blind to the fact that history does not show Hutton as being anything but a back up. There simply isn't anyone available as an "upgrade" without selling the farm. I think Jake is here for the meantime. The focus should be on the offense. That aspect of the club is actually something that can be serviced without breaking the bank.
 
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Ranksu

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What you guys think of re-evaluate at mid-season where Allen is and then consinder trade for him at TDL if guy like Husso shows up being legit NHL goaltender already or Allen really playing badly?
 
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TruBlu

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What you guys think of re-evaluate at mid-season where Allen is and then consinder trade for him at TDL if guy like Husso shows up being legit NHL goaltender already or Allen really playing badly?
I think that is a viable option. At that point I think the club would be willing to part with him if he was playing substandard. I think it would also depend on how much we saw of Husso. I doubt they'd immediately run with Husso as the starter. I could see them doing dueling goalies, much in the way of Halak/Elliott and Elliott/Allen. I doubt they go right into naming a guy with no NHL experience to starter in half a season. It sounded to me, from the press conference, that they were going to attempt to get Hutton to resign. That leads me to believe DA is not quite ready to move Husso into even a back up at the NHL level at this point. All conjecture on my part, but we all know DA does not like to move guys up before they are ready.
 
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carter333167

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I think it would be crazy to not give Husso a chance in at least 20ish games next year, perhaps more if he plays well. There are plenty of young goalies in the league.
 
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TruBlu

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I, myself, would like to see how Husso fares. I'm trying to approach this from a realistic standpoint, though, and separate wishes from what I think the reality will be. DA's comments at the presser don't sound like Husso is currently the plan as a backup this season. I doubt we see a situation where Hutton (or whoever the back up is) is rotated in and out with Husso on back to backs over the course of the season. It sounds like DA wants to give him another year of the minors before possibly putting him in as back up.
 
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Ranksu

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I think that is a viable option. At that point I think the club would be willing to part with him if he was playing substandard. I think it would also depend on how much we saw of Husso. I doubt they'd immediately run with Husso as the starter. I could see them doing dueling goalies, much in the way of Halak/Elliott and Elliott/Allen. I doubt they go right into naming a guy with no NHL experience to starter in half a season. It sounded to me, from the press conference, that they were going to attempt to get Hutton to resign. That leads me to believe DA is not quite ready to move Husso into even a back up at the NHL level at this point. All conjecture on my part, but we all know DA does not like to move guys up before they are ready.

Bolded: then its even mind-boggling how we didn't give the kid change to play NHL level when Allen was shit and Hutton was hurt. Even 1 f***ing game would give us some perspective where he's at from playing NHL level. Now we're just guessing where he's at. Funny is that maybe MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Husso could have turn this shit team playing like superstar and give team change to win. f*** hell we might be now playing in the playoffs and Husso performing like STONEWALL if our f***ing coaches would pull their heads of their asses and think different opportunities. f*** vet and f*** trust on Allen. That guy is f***ing hilariously bad goaltender and still our front office believes him and fans in here trust him.

Funny that those Allen lovers are hidden now when shit is the table.
 
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Bendak

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Bolded: then its even mind-boggling how we didn't give the kid change to play NHL level when Allen was **** and Hutton was hurt. Even 1 ****ing game would give us some perspective where he's at from playing NHL level. Now we're just guessing where he's at. Funny is that maybe MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Husso could have turn this **** team playing like superstar and give team change to win. **** hell we might be now playing in the playoffs and Husso performing like STONEWALL if our ****ing coaches would pull their heads of their asses and think different opportunities. **** vet and **** trust on Allen. That guy is ****ing hilariously bad goaltender and still our front office believes him and fans in here trust him.

Funny that those Allen lovers are hidden now when **** is the table.

f9085f84d1bb7edcc72e4e2e0b1cd24a03624d92aa0ac5a69eeffb2ab151e84d.jpg


This post is why I love Ranksu :nod:

11/10 would read again
 

carter333167

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This post is why I love Ranksu :nod:

11/10 would read again

Ok...now that's funny. Thanks for a smile during this uber-depressing moment when we see 16 other teams playing and we realize that our boys are .......hitting the effing links. :)
 
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carter333167

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I, myself, would like to see how Husso fares. I'm trying to approach this from a realistic standpoint, though, and separate wishes from what I think the reality will be. DA's comments at the presser don't sound like Husso is currently the plan as a backup this season. I doubt we see a situation where Hutton (or whoever the back up is) is rotated in and out with Husso on back to backs over the course of the season. It sounds like DA wants to give him another year of the minors before possibly putting him in as back up.

You have defended Jake with the ferocity of a wolverine so I just wanted to say that, if he played goal with even the half the consistency and tenacity you display in his defense, he would be top 10 in the NHL. :laugh:

This is meant in the best of spirits...I know we are all hoping for the same end-result...the SC. :)
 
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TruBlu

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You have defended Jake with the ferocity of a wolverine so I just wanted to say that, if he played goal with even the half the consistency and tenacity you display in his defense, he would be top 10 in the NHL. :laugh:

This is meant in the best of spirits...I know we are all hoping for the same end-result...the SC. :)
I appreciate your kind words. I enjoy this board and realize my opinion won't always be popular. I always try to think long game because I usually end up eating my words if I play my hand too soon. Haha. I just hope this time next year we can all chuckle at how miffed we all were getting put out the previous year.
 
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carter333167

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I appreciate your kind words. I enjoy this board and realize my opinion won't always be popular. I always try to think long game because I usually end up eating my words if I play my hand too soon. Haha. I just hope this time next year we can all chuckle at how miffed we all were getting put out the previous year.

You bet! Your words are just as valid and valuable as anyone else's on the board. :) And I agree, we better make the damn PO's next year....this is brutal. :laugh:
 
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Itsnotatrap

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I just don’t see there being any market for him where things were left this season, and I assume we will have to add some more significant pieces to make a deal happen right now. So I guess maybe I should vote no based off all those assumptions I am sitting on, because the problem with him is that he is ridiculously volatile vs being destined for doom at all times with him.

However, I’d certainly put some lines out there. If we don’t have to add significant sweetener, I am a resounding yes and happily let someone else accept the roller coaster ride at the price and term we gave him.
 
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