Injury Report: Shohei Ohtani torn UCL, won't pitch again this season

[Taro Tsujimoto]

Talk about ill-timed, what with his upcoming free agency.

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[Halladay]

Well then, this certainly can change things.

 

[VanillaCoke]

holy heck

 

[Say Hey Kid]

This will affect his free agency.

 

[Terry Yake]

he's still going to get a massive contract. probably not as much as before, but his bat alone will land him quite a bit of $$$

whatever team is willing to spend that much on him will no doubt be willing to wait on his arm to heal and take the chance that he remains a CY caliber pitcher

 

[GKJ]

Knew it was coming as soon as he missed that first start. Seems to work that way quite often.


Nice job not trading him!

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

This feels like TJS but a guy like Tanaka had a partial tear in his UCL for years and kept pitching.

 

[John Price]

Knew it was coming as soon as he missed that first start. Seems to work that way quite often.


Nice job not trading him!

Angels have an awful farm system. They could have Soto'd it for prospects to build a winner.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Angels have an awful farm system. They could have Soto'd it for prospects to build a winner.

Angels are 100% hopeless until Moreno sells or kicks the bucket.

 

[SoupNazi]

Angels screwed themselves by going for it.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I feel like this will honestly have an extremely marginal effect on the contract he ends up signing.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Obviously, being a two-way player and being able to do it at an All-Star level helps you become one of the elite players in the sport. But how would you rank him if he wasn’t the two-way? As a hitter and as a pitcher. IMO he’s a better hitter than he is a pitcher but he hasn’t really had a full year to showcase himself as a pitcher (not a single season in which he had 30 or more starts)?

But is he up there with Trout, prime Cabrera, Judge as a hitter alone? Or prime Kershaw, Verlander, and deGrom as a pitcher?

 

[kingsholygrail]

I think he's done being a two-way player. It's probably going to be TJS again.

 

[Cas]

Obviously, being a two-way player and being able to do it at an All-Star level helps you become one of the elite players in the sport. But how would you rank him if he wasn’t the two-way? As a hitter and as a pitcher. IMO he’s a better hitter than he is a pitcher but he hasn’t really had a full year to showcase himself as a pitcher (not a single season in which he had 30 or more starts)?

But is he up there with Trout, prime Cabrera, Judge as a hitter alone? Or prime Kershaw, Verlander, and deGrom as a pitcher?

I had this whole, big long thing written, and then I accidentally closed the tab.

In a very, very brief summary, which I can go into in more detail at some later point, Ohtani does not compare to guys like Trout or Cabrera purely as a hitter. He's not even close. For players at roughly his age, Ohtani is a lot closer to guys like Juan Gonzalez or Magglio Ordonez as a hitter, in terms of value (not necessarily in terms of hitting style). He's not dissimilar to some future Hall of Famers at roughly age 28, like Dave Winfield, Tony Gwynn, Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, or Heinie Manush (spot the one that doesn't belong), but they played for a very long time (or were inexplicably elected for some unfathomable reason). Basically, Ohtani has been an excellent hitter, but lots of guys have been as good as he was at the same age, and not all of them became legends.

As a pitcher, we have three reasonably full seasons and a little bit extra. Over these three seasons, Ohtani has put up an excellent 152 ERA+ in 428.1 innings. That's pretty similar to Kershaw over the past four (157 ERA+, 411.2 IP), but that's Kershaw's decline phase - Kershaw's prime blows Ohtani way out of the water (2013-14, Kershaw put up a 196 ERA+ in 434.1 innings). That's just one pitcher, and virtually every great pitcher has two seasons as good or better than Ohtani's three, plus many, many more. Ohtani is like Herb Score before he got hurt (153 ERA+, 476.2 IP), or Jose Fernandez before he died (150 ERA+, 471.1 IP) - basically, he's a "what could have been" case.

As an aside, I do not believe we should be making any accommodations for modern pitcher usage patterns. Teams are choosing to move innings, and thus value, to the bullpen - that doesn't create any more value, it simply reallocates it, and starting pitchers are just going to lose out. That's too bad for them, but I can't see adjusting anything on that basis - all you're doing is adding runs that do not exist.

...

Taken together, Ohtani has put up three really, truly outstanding seasons - 28.2 WAR, an average of 9.4 per season. That's not exactly unheard of, though it is extremely remarkable, even among a number of no-doubt greats, though it's easy to overstate how good it is - we are not talking about the greatest peak of all time or anywhere near it, or even in recent history (Trout's peak was even better, and he has put up a lot more value around it).

 

[Reality Check]

Angels were never going to get equal value by trading Ohtani. But I would have done it.

 

[GKJ]

Surprise, surprise, the Angels screwed everything up again

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Angels have an awful farm system. They could have Soto'd it for prospects to build a winner.

Juan Soto was still under team control for 2.5 more years, 3 potential postseason runs when he was traded

As good as Ohtani is (was), they weren’t getting anything close to that kind of a return for him.

More I think about it, it was probably right to hold onto him, push for the playoffs and hope he re-signs with you after making a run.

 

[John Price]

Juan Soto was still under team control for 2.5 more years, 3 potential postseason runs when he was traded

As good as Ohtani is (was), they weren’t getting anything close to that kind of a return for him.

More I think about it, it was probably right to hold onto him, push for the playoffs and hope he re-signs with you after making a run.

You're letting him walk for nothing.

Not smart.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

You're letting him walk for nothing.

Not smart.

Very easy to say right now but they were what 1 game out of the last WC spot at the deadline and they were red hot, 11-4 in their last 15 games before deadline.

I'd imagine Angel fans would have been pissed if they traded him and punted on yet another season

 

[Dr Pepper]

Very easy to say right now but they were what 1 game out of the last WC spot at the deadline and they were red hot, 11-4 in their last 15 games before deadline.

I'd imagine Angel fans would have been pissed if they traded him and punted on yet another season

Full credit to Ohtani for at least not telegraphing what his plans are, once the season ends.

Which, for the Angels, will probably be after Game 162.

But you've gotta wonder what Moreno has planned, besides backing up an 18-wheeler full of money to Ohtani's front door.

If he ends up walking anyway, it's gonna be a really bad look.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

If he ends up walking anyway, it's gonna be a really bad look.

The worse look is that the Angels couldn't even get a postseason birth with several years of him and Mike Trout.

I'm not sure trading him while only a game back in the WC race with the historic season he was having and competing night in, night out, and punting the season, also wouldn't have been a bad look, or was realistic at all.

It's just bad anyway you look at it. That's the Los Angeles Angels for you.

 

[Dr Pepper]

The worse look is that the Angels couldn't even get a postseason birth with several years of him and Mike Trout.

I'm not sure trading him while only a game back in the WC race with the historic season he was having and competing night in, night out, and punting the season, also wouldn't have been a bad look.

It's just bad anyway you look at it. That's the Los Angeles Angels for you.

Trout's been even quieter, for even longer, so kudos to him.

One playoff appearance during his entire stretch with the Angels, and not a peep about wanting out.

It really is something.

I mean he's already established generational wealth and is a sure-fire lock for first-ballot HOF entry, so maybe Trout just loves the city/team/fans enough that the complete ineptitude of team ownership is a non-factor to him.

It should be, but I can see why it might not be.

I bet he's in Ohtani's ear on the regular though, especially as this season winds down. Either asking him to stick around, or telling him to run.

 

[red devil]

 

[Terry Yake]

and now he's dealing with an apparent oblique injury. probably his agent trying to get him shut down for the season

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Injury and agent commentary at beginning