Shocking report: Another star player unhappy with the league

[ehc73]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=102591

Brodeur is none too happy with the NHL and Bettman. Big surprise right? Nothing really new, but I found this quote interesting:

"Having those restrictions in football and basketball, the coaches there mean more than the players do, and I don't think the fans go to watch coaches," Brodeur said.

In there he's referring to the salary caps. First time I've heard this argument. Thing is, basketball and football are so much more systems oriented than hockey. With so many stops in play, you can set up so many more plays. But isn't that just one part of the coach's job is more prominent than, say, developing a player?

Click to read more...

 

[sunb]

Its a question of dollars or cents for Brodeur. He has not much to gain or lose from any version of CBA as he is locked up in a long term deal for 7 million and even if a salary cap comes into play, he will be the last one who is cut from the team. He is much less in jeopardy as opposed to guys like Chris Pronger who faces making much less than his 10 million dollar salaries of yester-years and may be one of the obvious choices for his team to dump. Brodeur is making comments from a position of security.

However, Brodeur loses indefinitely with this lockout as he isn't collecting from his guarenteed paycheck and losing opportunities to break many of Roy's records.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I usually like what Marty has to say but his "it's not fair" comment was one of the most ridiculous and dumb I have heard from a player on the CBA issue.

 

[Form and Substance]

Well whatever Marty says is casually worth dismissing and should be filed under "brat's complaints record"

 

[Hasbro]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=102591

Brodeur is none too happy with the NHL and Bettman. Big surprise right? Nothing really new, but I found this quote interesting:



In there he's referring to the salary caps. First time I've heard this argument. Thing is, basketball and football are so much more systems oriented than hockey. With so many stops in play, you can set up so many more plays. But isn't that just one part of the coach's job is more prominent than, say, developing a player?

I've heard this argument regarding college sports with the rapid turnover, this is also regarding who gets marketed. However it's a bit alien to me oin the pro system

 

[thinkwild]

I've also heard it said about the NFL, that agents have even more of an effect on determining winning teams than coaches.

But I share Brodeurs frustration with nothing coming from the other side. Reflect on this Gary.

 

[SuperUnknown]

How is this shocking?

 

[Chelios]

But I share Brodeurs frustration with nothing coming from the other side. Reflect on this Gary.

And Bob?

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

And Bob?

The NHLPA has, from the beginning, maintained a concilliatory, pro-active approach to negotiations, only to be met with NHL intransigence and covert intimidation.

Expect the NHLPA to now launch a comprehensive counter-offensive as the dispute continues.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

The NHLPA has, from the beginning, maintained a concilliatory, pro-active approach to negotiations, only to be met with NHL intransigence and covert intimidation.

Expect the NHLPA to now launch a comprehensive counter-offensive as the dispute continues.

What kind of "counter-offensive"?

There's no counter-offensive to launch. Both parties are just trying to squeeze as much juice from the other as possible, and for the sake of hockey I hope the owners win although this remains a slim possibility.

 

[degroat*]

The NHLPA has, from the beginning, maintained a concilliatory, pro-active approach to negotiations

The PA offered a contract last fall and then offered a crappier version of the same thing last month. Yea... REAL pro-active.

Meanwhile, the owners offered 6 different ways to tie player salaries to revenues. Sure sounds like covert intimidation to me.

 

[Chelios]

The NHLPA has, from the beginning, maintained a concilliatory, pro-active approach to negotiations, only to be met with NHL intransigence and covert intimidation.

Expect the NHLPA to now launch a comprehensive counter-offensive as the dispute continues.

Is this guy for real?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Is this guy for real?

No, he isn't.

 

[struckmatch]

No, he isn't.

I hope for his own sake its a joke. If not, then Bob Goodenow has a stalker on his hands.

Back on topic, the comment regarding the coaches in the NBA and the NFL are moronic because he says "no one goes to a game to watch the coaches", well then Marty, I guess that explains why the NFL has the highest television ratings of any North American sporting league, and the highest revenue earning sport in North America.

Also, the NBA has much better television deals, and ratings, and ticket sales than the NHL, yup Marty, you're right, NO ONE IS WATCHING THE NBA, OR THE NFL. What stupid comments.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Is this guy for real?

Oh, I'm quite serious.

The daily barrage of ill-informed and semi-coherent player-bashing from the Pitchfork and Torch Brigade does become tiresome, though.

The NHLPA and Bob Goodenow shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

What kind of "counter-offensive"?

I would imagine something along the lines of player spokesmen getting their message out more effectively, for one. Reinforcement of charitable good works, that sort of thing.

 

[struckmatch]

I would imagine something along the lines of player spokesmen getting their message out more effectively, for one. Reinforcement of charitable good works, that sort of thing.

Any specifics? Or are you just working with your typical and nauseating generalizations which you seem to enjoy posting daily?

So, if we shouldn't underestimate the NHLPA, and your hero Bob Goodenow, then why don't you tell me why we shouldn't underestimate them, and what you think they have up their sleeve? and what, if any leverage do they have in these negotiations?

The NHLPA proposals have been solely for PR, opposed to instigating negotiations, they are laughable. the NHLPA doesn't want to tie their wages, to league revenues, NO business, not one business in the world can pay their employees without considering their revenues. The NHLPA has shown that anything that makes an ounce of economic sense for the NHL is totally incomprehensible, and unnacceptable.

The PA should understand that their gravy train is over, and stop ignoring the glaring financial shortcomings in this league. Arthur Levitt has offered to meet personally, and go over his numbers, the PA declined, the owners have offered their books for the PA to audit with an auditor of their choice, they DECLINED.

They have declined every attempt to acknowledge the leagues financial woes, and that doesn't only hurt this league, it hurts the game as a whole, since they fail to realize that if the league continues in this current system, it won't exist for much longer. As a fan of the game ever since I've been born, I can't bring myself to support a union of players that doesn't give a crap about the state of the game, nor can I have an ounce of respect for their moronic leader who continues to ignore the issues in this negotiation.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

First I'm certain there is a deal to be reached that doesn't include a hard cap and second there's also got to be a deal to be reached that does include a hard cap. But both sides are like little children with their hands covering their ears every time they hear "cap" and "no cap".

When I hear Damphousse say they're doing it for the next generation, that players made sacrifices 10 years ago and now it's their turn I think it's profondly stupid.

The worst thing in all of this is that if the Stanley Cup isn't awarded this year both parties will be worse off financialy. If this goes on, a couple of teams will fold, and a lot of the remaining american markets will be damaged for a long time. Both the players and the owners can't be better off if they go a whole year without hockey no matter who win the negociations.

I think the players are conscious there's no big battle to win here. They've started making compromises (altough ridiculous ones) so they know something is wrong with the league and that this can't go on. The question is : are they ready to give up on a whole season ? Are they willing to present their case in court when the league tries to declare an impasse ? Do they think they can win such a case ? Because the owners sure are ready to give up on the season IMO. And declaring an impasse seems to have been their plan along.

Anyway it's ridiculous, both sides have their heads up their ass.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

The NHLPA proposals have been solely for PR, opposed to instigating negotiations, they are laughable. the NHLPA doesn't want to tie their wages, to league revenues, NO business, not one business in the world can pay their employees without considering their revenues. The NHLPA has shown that anything that makes an ounce of economic sense for the NHL is totally incomprehensible, and unnacceptable.

The PA should understand that their gravy train is over, and stop ignoring the glaring financial shortcomings in this league. Arthur Levitt has offered to meet personally, and go over his numbers, the PA declined, the owners have offered their books for the PA to audit with an auditor of their choice, they DECLINED.

They have declined every attempt to acknowledge the leagues financial woes, and that doesn't only hurt this league, it hurts the game as a whole, since they fail to realize that if the league continues in this current system, it won't exist for much longer. As a fan of the game ever since I've been born, I can't bring myself to support a union of players that doesn't give a crap about the state of the game, nor can I have an ounce of respect for their moronic leader who continues to ignore the issues in this negotiation.

Nonsense.

Are you aware that the NHL only offers to show its financial data to the NHLPA on the condition it signs a confidentiality agreement not to comment publicly (even in generalities)? Meanwhile, the League can galavant about making all sorts of claims and we're all supposed to take it at face value?

Two-way street, bud.

 

[struckmatch]

Nonsense.

Are you aware that the NHL only offers to show its financial data to the NHLPA on the condition it signs a confidentiality agreement not to comment publicly (even in generalities)? Meanwhile, the League can galavant about making all sorts of claims and we're all supposed to take it at face value?

Two-way street, bud.

Its not out of line for a business to ensure the privacy of its finances by requiring the PA to sign a confidentiality agreement. In confidence or not, if the PA investigated the NHL's financial data maybe it would understand their financial situation, but either way they dismissed the economic problems of this league, and the future of this game. It's that simple.

What claims are you talking about? You mean the one about how the NHL has lost over 200 million dollars recently, and how that was ASSURED by the most professional and respected auditor today. That claim?

Is the league in financial trouble?

Can the league keep operating under this current system?

Can all 30 teams be competetive under this current system?

Those are all questions that the answers are obvious to. When the NHLPA makes a real concession and attempt at solving these financial problems, thats when you should support them. Its clear that the NHLPA is only looking out for the Sakic's, Brodeur's, and Lidstrom's of the league, the majority of the players(the lower and average paid players) don't have any say at all in a UNION in which they are supposed to be a part of.

The union is a joke, they don't want to take a severe paycut, but don't worry boys, GO PLAY IN EUROPE FOR A QUARTER OF THE MONEY. Nice work at being consistent.

What a disgrace.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Ah yes. Art "The Abacus" Levitt. Crackerjack Beancounter, that man is...

The guy now saying both sides ought to chuck the hard cap out the window and find some other way to get a deal done? That guy?

 

[struckmatch]

Ah yes. Art "The Abacus" Levitt. Crackerjack Beancounter, that man is...

The guy now saying both sides ought to chuck the hard cap out the window and find some other way to get a deal done? That guy?

Whatever his position on the CBA, whether their should be a hard cap, or a luxury tax, his credentials regarding his auditing history are impeccable. I'm not a full supporter of the NHL and its owners, I don't believe in their hard cap or the highway ideas, I just can't stand the NHLPA and its attempts to dodge the problems that are hurting this game.

I think a luxury tax could work, but not the kind the players have proposed. It has to be a strict luxury tax, or we might as well not have one. The NHLPA proposed a luxury tax for the sake of proposing one, and PR, not to actually contribute to the solving of the leagues financial woes.

I, as a fan of this game, just feel insulted by the NHLPA, they seem to think that the average hockey fan isn't aware of how drastic these problems have become for the NHL, and how they expect us to believe that a business can be run without tying employee wages to league revenues, that in itself is pathetic. Some of those players have their own private businesses, I'm sure they pay their employees based on what their company earns.

I can bet that I'm not the only one who feels insulted by the NHLPA, they try and play the fans of this league like mindless drones.

 

[shveik]

I, as a fan of this game, just feel insulted by the NHLPA, they seem to think that the average hockey fan isn't aware of how drastic these problems have become for the NHL, and how they expect us to believe that a business can be run without tying employee wages to league revenues, that in itself is pathetic. Some of those players have their own private businesses, I'm sure they pay their employees based on what their company earns.

I can bet that I'm not the only one who feels insulted by the NHLPA, they try and play the fans of this league like mindless drones.

Actually I think from the basic business standpoint, the NHLPA position makes a lot more sense. As you said yourself, those who have businesses know that you pay the employees based on the earnings of your company. But do have to have a piece of paper telling you to do so, when it is just plain common sense?

The answer is that the league does not have to have the cap/luxury tax or any other salary limiting legislation to be financially healthy. The only consequence of that would be the league disparity. And I do not think it will be much worse than it is right now. When both the richer and the poorer teams move into the black ink, the on-ice product disparity will stay about same, i.e. as it is right now. Whether it is acceptabe or not, or what solutions to that can be offered, is up for a debate. But this kind of slight of hand by the NHL, presenting one problem as another, is annoying to me.

Anyhow, as you see, the NHL's real problem is not its financial health, but the market disparity. Now, the solution they offered solves this parity problem by capping off the earnings of the players at the level affordable by the poorest teams. Therefore in a way the players are expected to sponsor the NHL presence in the poor markets. I think it is quite natural that they do not want to. The equivalent of the NHL proposal would be if NHLPA offered 100% revenue sharing, when all hockey revenues are divided equally among the teams. Can you imagine owners reaction to a proposal like that? :lol

 

[GKJ]

I just can't stand the NHLPA and its attempts to dodge the problems that are hurting this game.

Yes, owners who don't know how to manage NHL teams, throwing money out the window for role players, piss-poor arena deals, sub-par PR, and attendance problems. That's all the players fault. It's the players that are dodging the problems facing some owners, some of which wouldn't qualify for expansion teams (NJ, NYR, NYI, STL, PIT among others) because of how poorly their franchise infrastrucure is built.



Make the players bail the owners out. I think the owners are dodging their own problems.

 

[Buffaloed]

Ah yes. Art "The Abacus" Levitt. Crackerjack Beancounter, that man is...

The guy now saying both sides ought to chuck the hard cap out the window and find some other way to get a deal done? That guy?

If accounting were a religion, Arthur Levitt would be well on his way to canonization. No one has done more to try to bring integrity and honesty to that industry than Levitt. It's more than a little disingenuous to side with the NHLPA and then mock one of the few honest, independent thinkers associated with the owners who is, to use your words, advocating a conciliatory, proactive approach. The NHLPA can only hope that the NHL follows Levitt's advice.