Speculation: Sheldon Keefe

[ShaneFalco]

Coaches can be great with one team and a disaster with another. The style, the systems implemented may work well on one team, and are terrible on another.
Let's see what Babcock accomplishes here before calling him "elite"

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Coaches can be great with one team and a disaster with another. The style, the systems implemented may work well on one team, and are terrible on another.
Let's see what Babcock accomplishes here before calling him "elite"

But he is elite his record speaks for itself

 

[ShaneFalco]

Mike Babcock NHL coaching statistics[35]

Team	Year	Regular season	Postseason
Games	Won	Lost	Tied	OTL	Points	Finish	Games	Won	Lost	Win %	Result
ANA	2002–03	82	40	27	9	6	95	2nd in Pacific	21	15	6	.714	Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
ANA	2003–04	82	29	35	10	8	76	4th in Pacific	—	—	—	—	Did not qualify
ANA total	164	69	62	19	14	—	21	15	6	.714
DET	2005–06	82	58	16	—	8	124	1st in Central	6	2	4	.333	Lost in First Round
DET	2006–07	82	50	19	—	13	113	1st in Central	18	10	8	.556	Lost in Conference Finals
DET	2007–08	82	54	21	—	7	115	1st in Central	22	16	6	.727	Won Stanley Cup
DET	2008–09	82	51	21	—	10	112	1st in Central	23	15	8	.652	Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
DET	2009–10	82	44	24	—	14	102	2nd in Central	12	5	7	.417	Lost in Second Round
DET	2010–11	82	47	25	—	10	104	1st in Central	11	7	4	.636	Lost in Second Round
DET	2011–12	82	48	28	—	6	102	3rd in Central	5	1	4	.200	Lost in First Round
DET	2012–13	48	24	16	—	8	56	3rd in Central	14	7	7	.500	Lost in Second Round
DET	2013–14	82	39	28	—	15	93	4th in Atlantic	5	1	4	.200	Lost in First Round
DET	2014–15	82	43	25	—	14	100	3rd in Atlantic	7	3	4	.429	Lost in First Round
DET total	786	458	223	—	105	—	123	67	56	.545
TOR	2015–16	82	29	42	—	11	69	8th in Atlantic	—	—	—	—	Did not qualify
TOR	2016–17	82	40	27	—	15	95	4th in Atlantic	6	2	4	.333	Lost in First Round
TOR	2017–18	82	49	26	—	7	105	3rd in Atlantic	7	3	4	.429	Lost in First Round
TOR total	246	118	95	—	33	—	13	5	8	.385
Total	1,196	645	380	19	152	1,461	157	87	70	.554	1 Stanley Cup 13 playoff appearances

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[PromisedLand]

Twenty-six consecutive seasons as a head coach at all levels -- junior, college and pro -- is impressive. He has one Stanley Cup championship, two other Stanley Cup Finals, and missed the playoffs only twice in a 16-year NHL head-coaching career.

You didn't mention his 1997 WJC gold medal, his back-to-back 2010-14 Olympic gold medals (if thats so easy, why is he the only Canadian coach to do it?), and his 2016 World Cup gold medal.

He is the only coach ever to win a Stanley Cup, an Olympic gold medal and an IIHF World Championship.

You don't see anything in his resume that suggests he is an elite coach?

Who exactly would you have in mind as a comparitor?

Below is the link that is filtered on W% in playoffs
NHL Coach Register | Hockey-Reference.com


Would any other coach have won the Olympics and Worlds with the Canadian roster at the time?
If Yes; then why is Babcock elite?
If No; what are your reasons that other coaches would have failed with those rosters where Babcock succeeded?

If your definition of elite coach includes having a high W% in the post season then - Babcock - is ranked 32nd overall; if that is elite with .55 and 1 cup; THEN so are:

• Bylsma .55 and 1 cup
• Carlyle .55 and 1 cup
• Julien .55 and 1 cup
• Quneville .55 and 3 cups
• Laviolette .53 and 1 cup
• Sullivan .60 and 2 cups
• etc....

If your counter is that Bylsma and Sullivant or Q are only good because they had superstars; then would you consider

• Lindstrom
• Zetterberg
• Datsyuk

superstars when they were in detroit?

Or is your definition of elite coach is who won most cups?

Similarly, you can filter it by which coach has won the most cups:

NHL Coach Register | Hockey-Reference.com

Babcock is ranked 34th overall with 1cups; but ranking is really shared with a lot of other coaches who have at least won 1 cup

How are you quantifying what is an "elite" coach?

 

[stickty111]

Twenty-six consecutive seasons as a head coach at all levels -- junior, college and pro -- is impressive. He has one Stanley Cup championship, two other Stanley Cup Finals, and missed the playoffs only twice in a 16-year NHL head-coaching career.

You didn't mention his 1997 WJC gold medal, his back-to-back 2010-14 Olympic gold medals (if thats so easy, why is he the only Canadian coach to do it?), and his 2016 World Cup gold medal.

He is the only coach ever to win a Stanley Cup, an Olympic gold medal and an IIHF World Championship.

You don't see anything in his resume that suggests he is an elite coach?

Who exactly would you have in mind as a comparitor?

Incoming comments "he had a stacked roster," plus "we finished last with him as coach and its the only thing that counts".

 

[stickty111]

Babcock made it work with that canadian roster, and deserves credit for that.
There is no guarantee other coaches would have won with that roster, so there is no point in discussing a "maybe".

Go ask a neutral fan and ask "would you rather have Babcock or Bylsma?" Same thing with Julien and Carlyle. There can be an argument that Q, Laviolelle(one of my favorite coaches), and Sullivan are better then Babcock, and I consider them elite just like Babcock.
Here is how I quantify an elite coach.
Motivation(Babcock ranks highly no matter what some people say)
Systems(Babcock was always tought of as someone with a great system, aside from the long breakout pass this season)
Tactics(Babcock is a masterful tactician)

 

[IBeL34f]

Incoming comments "he had a stacked roster," plus "we finished last with him as coach and its the only thing that counts".

The 'stacked roster' is such a wasted argument when you look at what he was making the Playoffs with by the end of his run there. People bitching about him being unable to get out of the 1st Round for so long obviously don't remember that he made the Playoffs one year without having a single 50-point scorer on his lineup. Or perhaps some people don't realize that the impressive up-and-comers he leaned on in those years (Tatar, Sheahan, Nyquist) all put up career seasons under his tutelage that they have failed to replicate since.
During those last couple years there, Detroit basically had no business even making the Playoffs. When they actually had a stacked, healthy roster, they were winning the Cup, or going out in Rounds 2, 3, or 4. The only years I can see being really legitimate 1st-round upsets are 2005/06 (coming out of the lockout) and 2011/12 (though neither Datsyuk nor Zetterberg were 70-point scorers that year, and Lidstrom was 41 and on his last legs).

 

[Ciao]

Below is the link that is filtered on W% in playoffs
NHL Coach Register | Hockey-Reference.com


Would any other coach have won the Olympics and Worlds with the Canadian roster at the time?
If Yes; then why is Babcock elite?
If No; what are your reasons that other coaches would have failed with those rosters where Babcock succeeded?

If your definition of elite coach includes having a high W% in the post season then - Babcock - is ranked 32nd overall; if that is elite with .55 and 1 cup; THEN so are:

• Bylsma .55 and 1 cup
• Carlyle .55 and 1 cup
• Julien .55 and 1 cup
• Quneville .55 and 3 cups
• Laviolette .53 and 1 cup
• Sullivan .60 and 2 cups
• etc....

If your counter is that Bylsma and Sullivant or Q are only good because they had superstars; then would you consider

• Lindstrom
• Zetterberg
• Datsyuk

superstars when they were in detroit?

Or is your definition of elite coach is who won most cups?

Similarly, you can filter it by which coach has won the most cups:

NHL Coach Register | Hockey-Reference.com

Babcock is ranked 34th overall with 1cups; but ranking is really shared with a lot of other coaches who have at least won 1 cup

How are you quantifying what is an "elite" coach?

The only coach who ever won a Stanley Cup, an IIHF World Championship and Olympic gold is an elite coach.

That's my definition.

You can't match that, because aside from Babcock it's never been done.

You can imagine who would have done what all you like. Let your imagination run wild and enjoy your fantasies!

 

[PromisedLand]

The only coach who ever won a Stanley Cup, an IIHF World Championship and Olympic gold is an elite coach.

That's my definition.

You can't match that, because aside from Babcock it's never been done.

You can imagine who would have done what all you like. Let your imagination run wild and enjoy your fantasies!

So basically you are implying that other coaches would have failed with IIHF and Olympics and only Babcock is responsible for it?

It’s like saying because Sidney Crosby is as the captain of the triple crown and the only player to hav won all three events as Captain is the only reason those teams won.

 

[Ciao]

So basically you are implying that other coaches would have failed with IIHF and Olympics and only Babcock is responsible for it?

It’s like saying because Sidney Crosby is as the captain of the triple crown and the only player to hav won all three events as Captain is the only reason those teams won.

Those are your words, not mine.

I said what I said.

And Babcock has accomplished what no-one else has done.

Make of that what you will.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Suggest to any hockey fan to watch the final two or three games of the AHL final. Very entertaining, good hockey. Believe it's on TSN 2.

 

[Leaf Fans]

It is impossible to tell whether Canada would or wouldn't have won Olympic gold without Babcock. It is not impossible to believe that Hockey Canada would seek the best coach available to them. That was Babcock twice. It is an empty claim to say that anyone would have won with the teams he had had.