Player Discussion Shea Weber

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groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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There is a difference between the lessening of a sanction applied by the Commisioners office and the application of the CBA. New Jersey did not get relief from Kovalchuk's cap recapture. Even LA has to carry a cap recapture for the Richard's settlement, and the only reason LA didn't get hit with more is because he was actually arrested and charged.

Like any contact, even the CBA, it is up for interpretation and possible arbitration. The Kovalchuk contract was worse than the Weber one, and it was the contract itself that was rejected by the League prior to signing. By comparison, the League allowed the contracts of Weber and Suter, which were not quite as objectionable, apparently.

As I understand it, the financial penalty to New Jersey was minimal and they forfeited a 3rd rd. pick, while their 1st was reinstated but at a lower placement.

There is a precedent for leniency, and doubly so in this case since the NHL approved both the Offer Sheet and the contract offered by Nashville.

Of course, it all becomes moot if Weber plays through his full contract.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Like any contact, even the CBA, it is up for interpretation and possible arbitration. The Kovalchuk contract was worse than the Weber one, and it was the contract itself that was rejected by the League prior to signing. By comparison, the League allowed the contracts of Weber and Suter, which were not quite as objectionable, apparently.

As I understand it, the financial penalty to New Jersey was minimal and they forfeited a 3rd rd. pick, while their 1st was reinstated but at a lower placement.

There is a precedent for leniency, and doubly so in this case since the NHL approved both the Offer Sheet and the contract offered by Nashville.

Of course, it all becomes moot if Weber plays through his full contract.

I'm not sure you understand. There were two Kovalchuk contracts. The first was disallowed and punished by Bettman. The 2nd was allowed, but fell under the cap recapture provisions that were collectively bargained. And it was very clear why one was rejected and punished while the other was allowed (hint, it had to do with the degree of the back dive and the rate with which it was reduced year over year).

They also had what would have been a top-10 pick turn into 30th overall, which is not insignificant.

Also, the punishment was issued by the Commissioners officer and the Commissioner's office could adjusted as they saw fit. Not applying provisions of the CBA (which is what you'd need to do in not applying cap recapture) requires both NHLPA and the BoG signing off on it.

There is no evidence to allow for the assumption that Nashville will be completely off the hook.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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I'm not sure you understand. There were two Kovalchuk contracts. The first was disallowed and punished by Bettman. The 2nd was allowed, but fell under the cap recapture provisions that were collectively bargained. And it was very clear why one was rejected and punished while the other was allowed (hint, it had to do with the degree of the back dive and the rate with which it was reduced year over year).

They also had what would have been a top-10 pick turn into 30th overall, which is not insignificant.

Also, the punishment was issued by the Commissioners officer and the Commissioner's office could adjusted as they saw fit. Not applying provisions of the CBA (which is what you'd need to do in not applying cap recapture) requires both NHLPA and the BoG signing off on it.

There is no evidence to allow for the assumption that Nashville will be completely off the hook.

I understand completely. I actually wrote that the initial contract was rejected by the NHL. It's also pertinent to other things I wrote.

I never suggested Nashville would be completely off the hook, just that the severity of the punishment has a good chance of being diminished, as was New Jersey's.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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I understand completely. I actually wrote that the initial contract was rejected by the NHL. It's also pertinent to other things I wrote.

I never suggested Nashville would be completely off the hook, just that the severity of the punishment has a good chance of being diminished, as was New Jersey's.

And I'm saying that while suspect that Nashville wont be forced to tear down their roster as part of a cap recapture, the situations are different since cap recapture is not a punishment. Its a part of the CBA and is governed differently.
 

optimus2861

Registered User
Aug 29, 2005
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I can't guess the likelihood, since there isn't a comparable. I suspect the NHL wouldn't force Nashville to dismantle there team though.

But offer sheets are allowed as part of the CBA. RFAs are still Free Agents, just restricted. Just because most GMs seem to have collectively decided not to utilize them, doesn't mean they aren't allowed.

Nashville chose to match the offer sheet. They gave him that contract. They weren't forced to. They could have taken the picks. They could have traded him or signed him prior to July 1st. They could have locked him up the previous year instead of taking him to arbitration.

I don't accept the premise that they should be absolved because they put themselves into a position where Weber could be offer-sheeted. That's their fault. And I really don't see the NHL completely letting them off the hook.
Nashville at the time had no good choices open to them. They had already lost Suter (if I remember the timeframe right). The offer sheet was both circumventing and heavily front-loaded in a ruthless attempt by the Flyers to make it literally unaffordable for Predators ownership, who were known/believed to be relatively low on cash. Indeed, they didn't match the offer sheet right way; it sat for a couple of days, and speculation was rampant that the Predators might not have had the cash to do so. The Predators weren't yet on solid ground as a franchise (I forget if this was before or after the attempted 'hostile takeover' bid by whatsisname who wanted to move them to Hamilton), and losing both of their top-paring D in such a short timeframe may have been fatal to the franchise. Ultimately they matched.

I think it would be incredibly unfair of the league to hit the Predators with significant recapture penalties on that contract, after they already absorbed a huge chunk of the cashflow hit at a time where they were in some distress.
 

Canari94

Registered User
Oct 10, 2016
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We already know what Bergevin will use as excuse to justify that his defence was not better than last year and obviously for this horrible season...
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
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We already know what Bergevin will use as excuse to justify that his defence was not better than last year and obviously for this horrible season...
Okay.....will be standing by for the if Weber was healthy we would’ve won the whole thing
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Nashville at the time had no good choices open to them. They had already lost Suter (if I remember the timeframe right). The offer sheet was both circumventing and heavily front-loaded in a ruthless attempt by the Flyers to make it literally unaffordable for Predators ownership, who were known/believed to be relatively low on cash. Indeed, they didn't match the offer sheet right way; it sat for a couple of days, and speculation was rampant that the Predators might not have had the cash to do so. The Predators weren't yet on solid ground as a franchise (I forget if this was before or after the attempted 'hostile takeover' bid by whatsisname who wanted to move them to Hamilton), and losing both of their top-paring D in such a short timeframe may have been fatal to the franchise. Ultimately they matched.

I think it would be incredibly unfair of the league to hit the Predators with significant recapture penalties on that contract, after they already absorbed a huge chunk of the cashflow hit at a time where they were in some distress.

Lets not be dramatic or absolve Nashville of all blame. They put themselves into that situation. And considering how the league aggressively revenue-shares, lets not pretend that they were hung out to dry.

Having Nashville pay comply under the CBA, even if it means they have to acquire Weber and LTIR him, is not a punitive punishment. Its the rules, as collectively bargained.
 

DXStriker

Registered User
Nov 15, 2016
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MB just got his wall of excuses .

The two biggest injuries in MB tenure has been so mishandled lol
 

nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
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Lets not be dramatic or absolve Nashville of all blame. They put themselves into that situation. And considering how the league aggressively revenue-shares, lets not pretend that they were hung out to dry.

Having Nashville pay comply under the CBA, even if it means they have to acquire Weber and LTIR him, is not a punitive punishment. Its the rules, as collectively bargained.

Honestly, it was Philly’s fault for that contract. It put Nashville in a horrible predicament.
 
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