Player Discussion Shea Weber

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Tighthead

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Nashville is not going to be penalized by recapture. The NHL let New Jersey off the hook for the blatant circumvention in the Kovalchuk contract, they aren't going to punish the Predators for matching an offer sheet 11 years in the past.

And I also don't think Weber's going to retire for those $1 million/year years. How many employment opportunities is he going to have to earn as much as $1 million/year after his hockey career is over? I can see him heading over to Robidas Island, but an outright retirement seems unlikely.

Don’t forget what they let Lombardi do with Richards.
 
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Price is Wright

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Feb 5, 2010
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Actually he's currently 32 and there are 8 years left on the contract, the last three only paying $1mln per season. I'm not defending the trade, but there is no need to exaggerate the facts to argue against it.

Sounds less like exaggeration and more like the math was just incorrect. Weber is also *turning* 33 this year so the poster is just off by a few months.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Nashville is not going to be penalized by recapture. The NHL let New Jersey off the hook for the blatant circumvention in the Kovalchuk contract, they aren't going to punish the Predators for matching an offer sheet 11 years in the past.

And I also don't think Weber's going to retire for those $1 million/year years. How many employment opportunities is he going to have to earn as much as $1 million/year after his hockey career is over? I can see him heading over to Robidas Island, but an outright retirement seems unlikely.

They didn't let the Devils off the hook, They lost a 1st round pick because of the attempted cap circumvention and they've been carrying a 250k cap recapture penalty since Kovalchuk retired.

New Jersey Devils - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Also, Weber can earn that much a year going into a front office or the NHL easily on retirement.
 

Roke

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Jul 21, 2003
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They didn't let the Devils off the hook, They lost a 1st round pick because of the attempted cap circumvention and they've been carrying a 250k cap recapture penalty since Kovalchuk retired.

New Jersey Devils - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Also, Weber can earn that much a year going into a front office or the NHL easily on retirement.

They were originally supposed to forfeit a 1st round pick but the NHL modified it to just moving it to the end of the first round.
 

Chili

En boca cerrada no entran moscas
Jun 10, 2004
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I'm really starting to question how this team deals with injuries.

It took forever for Price to heal his knee. In 15-16, he played his last game on nov 25.. and he missed like last 20-22 weeks of the season.

Now Weber gets injured on the very first game of the season.. forces himself to play another 25 games.. and now he's been out for 2 months and potentially for the rest of the season.. How the hell did they let this happen. I'm no expert in foot injuries.. but I've never seen one that takes this long to recover. Especially if its not even broken. He obviously shouldn't have played those extra 25 games after his injury. Thank god we are not in position to make the playoffs.

It's not my money but it's a really bad way to invest in a player that Molson pay 12 millions this year.
I remember Markov coming back and reinjuring his knee not long afterwards. Season before last, Petry played injured which was questionable, especially how much he struggled and Gilbert was cleared to play on a bad knee and tore it up.

I seem to remember Stephane Richer having alot of foot problems later in his career. Any chronic injury is probably going to effect how a player plays, would think it would be a good idea to try to avoid them.
 
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the

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I like having a Man Mountain in our team, I don’t know what it’s suppose to do but I like it.
 
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groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Which is still a punishment. And they're still paying a cap recapture penalty. Its also not like Nashville is the only team that benefited from those kind of contracts.

You can't forget that Nashville is not the author of that contract. It was the Flyers who drew that up while trying to poach Weber through offer sheet.

I think it's very likely the recapture penalty will be significantly reduced if it comes into play.
 

PerdFan

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Oct 10, 2010
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Nashville is not going to be penalized by recapture. The NHL let New Jersey off the hook for the blatant circumvention in the Kovalchuk contract, they aren't going to punish the Predators for matching an offer sheet 11 years in the past.

And I also don't think Weber's going to retire for those $1 million/year years. How many employment opportunities is he going to have to earn as much as $1 million/year after his hockey career is over? I can see him heading over to Robidas Island, but an outright retirement seems unlikely.
Agreed. I don't see Nashville being penalized because if you look back at the post offer sheet Weber years, the Preds never actually gained any kind of advantage because of circumvention. Poile kept the team's internal cap below the circumvention amount (except one year when they went over by about $1,000). The league won't penalize a team that matched a predatory offer sheet and then never gained any actual advantage from that contract.
At most, I can see Nashville having to trade a piece or two for Weber's rights in the last few years and placing him on LTIR and paying out the remainder of his contract.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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You can't forget that Nashville is not the author of that contract. It was the Flyers who drew that up while trying to poach Weber through offer sheet.

I think it's very likely the recapture penalty will be significantly reduced if it comes into play.

I can't guess the likelihood, since there isn't a comparable. I suspect the NHL wouldn't force Nashville to dismantle there team though.

But offer sheets are allowed as part of the CBA. RFAs are still Free Agents, just restricted. Just because most GMs seem to have collectively decided not to utilize them, doesn't mean they aren't allowed.

Nashville chose to match the offer sheet. They gave him that contract. They weren't forced to. They could have taken the picks. They could have traded him or signed him prior to July 1st. They could have locked him up the previous year instead of taking him to arbitration.

I don't accept the premise that they should be absolved because they put themselves into a position where Weber could be offer-sheeted. That's their fault. And I really don't see the NHL completely letting them off the hook.
 

groovejuice

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I can't guess the likelihood, since there isn't a comparable. I suspect the NHL wouldn't force Nashville to dismantle there team though.

But offer sheets are allowed as part of the CBA. RFAs are still Free Agents, just restricted. Just because most GMs seem to have collectively decided not to utilize them, doesn't mean they aren't allowed.

Nashville chose to match the offer sheet. They gave him that contract. They weren't forced to. They could have taken the picks. They could have traded him or signed him prior to July 1st. They could have locked him up the previous year instead of taking him to arbitration.

I don't accept the premise that they should be absolved because they put themselves into a position where Weber could be offer-sheeted. That's their fault. And I really don't see the NHL completely letting them off the hook.

I'm pretty sure the NHL examines all contracts to ensure they are within acceptable limits. Seems to me that contracts they've stamped shouldn't be open to sanctions retroactively.

Loopholes are a reality. Teams will use them until they're amended. Bettman also has a history of threatening huge sanctions, then backing off at the last minute.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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I'm pretty sure the NHL examines all contracts to ensure they are within acceptable limits. Seems to me that contracts they've stamped shouldn't be open to sanctions retroactively.

Loopholes are a reality. Teams will use them until they're amended. Bettman also has a history of threatening huge sanctions, then backing off at the last minute.

Please provide me with an instance where cap-recapture has not been applied where it was called for. Because as I recall, its either been applied, or the player has been LTIR'd (or traded).

And they've been punished retroactively. Or in the spirit of what was negotiated.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Please provide me with an instance where cap-recapture has not been applied where it was called for. Because as I recall, its either been applied, or the player has been LTIR'd (or traded).

And they've been punished retroactively. Or in the spirit of what was negotiated.

An example of Bettman softening on a cap related sanction was with Lamoriello. He originally took away a 1st round pick and later reinstated it, but at a lower position.

In a strictly legal sense, the regulations the NHL imposes are subject to scrutiny and interpretation. If a clever GM finds a way to circumvent them, it's up to the league to modify them by amending the rule in question using language that isn't open to interpretation.

Particularly in the case of the Weber contract, the NHL allowed both the offer sheet and the final contract to go through. This doesn't absolve the team, but it mitigates the sanctions. Bettman recognizes that and I believe he will act accordingly, since he's already set precedent.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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An example of Bettman softening on a cap related sanction was with Lamoriello. He originally took away a 1st round pick and later reinstated it, but at a lower position.

In a strictly legal sense, the regulations the NHL imposes are subject to scrutiny and interpretation. If a clever GM finds a way to circumvent them, it's up to the league to modify them by amending the rule in question using language that isn't open to interpretation.

Particularly in the case of the Weber contract, the NHL allowed both the offer sheet and the final contract to go through. This doesn't absolve the team, but it mitigates the sanctions. Bettman recognizes that and I believe he will act accordingly, since he's already set precedent.

There is a difference between the lessening of a sanction applied by the Commisioners office and the application of the CBA. New Jersey did not get relief from Kovalchuk's cap recapture. Even LA has to carry a cap recapture for the Richard's settlement, and the only reason LA didn't get hit with more is because he was actually arrested and charged.
 
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