Player Discussion Shea Weber

[badbrains]

Can we get a D prospect, a C prospect and a first for him?

He provides very little value to this team if he stays. We're brutal with him and we're brutal without him. We won't sniff a cup before he's one foot into retirement anyway.

He can provide tremendous value in a trade while his rep is still mountainous, however.

Should be an easy sell since EVERYONE in the NHL loves him SO much, right?

 

[Brainiac]

We won't sniff a cup before he's one foot into retirement anyway.

Pun intended? :p

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Rather have a puck moving 1D than a stay at home chip it off the boards 1D

Weber isn't a chip it off the boards defensive defenseman. He's a short pass defensive defenseman. He's great on a system oriented team because he doesn't freestyle.

He's not a playmaker, but he's absolutely solid at making an outlet pass. It's what makes him so good defensively. He gets the puck to the open man in our zone who then sends it up ice.

Weber isn't going to hit the streaking winger in the neutral zone with an up the middle of the ice pass that has everyone ooooohing & awwwwing, but he is going to make the simple outlet pass to whatever guy is open.

None of our D really chip the puck anyway, since that isn't how CJ likes it; unfortunately for a guy like Benn who should be a chip it D. He worked better under Therrien's system where D were expected to chip it to center ice where our small speedy forwards were to track it down. Benn can't pass, so he's failing in CJ's system that requires short passes to exit the zone. CJ wants control from D to O & back.

Therrien just wanted it out. He was all puck pursuit. Possession wasn't a huge concern with him.

I mean even Subban was chipping pucks out to center under Therrien. He didn't like it but he did it.

In the final minute behind by one, you put Weber out for his shot not his playmaking, but you still put him out. He's pretty accurate with that shot. It either goes in or causes a rebound that creates chaos in front.

We do need a playmaking D though. Dahlin would solve a lot of problems for this team even more so than an offensive forward.

 

[Wats]

Who was talking about scoring? I certainly wasent. Overall effect on the game on every shift is what I'm looking for. Ask pacioretty and our wingers if they prefer the puck on their stick or off the boards

Or off their hand (Gallagher)

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Well so far he’s given absolutely no indication of slowing down at alliance joining the Habs and has done all as advertised making the hate on for him even more uncomprehendable. Given his style of play, it doesn’t look like he’s going to slow down anytime soon.

I wish the bum would've traded Captain Floateretty for Weber. I would've praised him for that. Subban can play left.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I wish the bum would've traded Captain Floateretty for Weber. I would've praised him for that. Subban can play left.

Which is fine. But some posters constantly bashing Weber, not seeing how great a player he is because he was traded for PK is beyond childish and asinine. They have to bash Weber because it’s goes to the narrative that Bergevin is the worst GM in the history of hockey and so Weber must by default be a complete disaster of a trade and have zero redeeming qualities to him. All made up warts and axes to grind instead of just appreciating the fact he’s a pretty good D.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Which is fine. But some posters constantly bashing Weber, not seeing how great a player he is because he was traded for PK is beyond childish and asinine. They have to bash Weber because it’s goes to the narrative that Bergevin is the worst GM in the history of hockey and so Weber must by default be a complete disaster of a trade and have zero redeeming qualities to him. All made up warts and axes to grind instead of just appreciating the fact he’s a pretty good D.

he slaps pucks and make 5 ft passes, that's pretty much the description given a few posts back...


and huh, who here said he has ZERO redeeming qualities to him ??
(I'll take a guess : nobody / you're arguing against stuff nobody said)

 

[PaulD]

Before the trade I was saying Nashville needs to trade Weber to a sucker and get a plethora of picks and prospects to carry Nashville for the next few years because his contract was ridiculous and he wasn't as good as he used to be, with the game changing around him.

Instead they got Subban. It's scary how similar it all is to the Chelios/Savard. And funny enough that trade was well defended back then in that Savard provided a need, Chelios was a problem, Chelios was hurt and wouldn't come back the same player, Savard still had a lot of good years in him, etc. and today everyone forgets that Savard was a very good player who was a Top 10 centre in Chicago but by the time he got to Montreal he was still good but not the same. Sound familiar?

Actually sounds very familiar.

 

[PaulD]

Can we get a D prospect, a C prospect and a first for him?

He provides very little value to this team if he stays. We're brutal with him and we're brutal without him. We won't sniff a cup before he's one foot into retirement anyway.

He can provide tremendous value in a trade while his rep is still mountainous, however.

Should be an easy sell since EVERYONE in the NHL loves him SO much, right?

To rectify the problem you describe there is one man that needs to go and it aint Weber. At least not yet. Nothing happens with this team until MB is history NOTHING......and even then it will take a ton of work and patience.

 

[Price is Wright]

Which is fine. But some posters constantly bashing Weber, not seeing how great a player he is because he was traded for PK is beyond childish and asinine. They have to bash Weber because it’s goes to the narrative that Bergevin is the worst GM in the history of hockey and so Weber must by default be a complete disaster of a trade and have zero redeeming qualities to him. All made up warts and axes to grind instead of just appreciating the fact he’s a pretty good D.

Right. He's a pretty good D.

Which is less than what he was traded for and less than what the team needs.

Do you understand? The club did not get better adding Weber. The worst part is that the ONE THING we could guarantee he would bring according to everyone from the GM to the owner to the media to people here was leadership. He is a former Captain. Mark Messier award. Total leader. Respected around the league. So what did Geoff Molson say was this club was missing?

Leadership.

How many more captains does this team need to acquire until they have enough leadership?

And again, this is not me blaming Shea. It's not like he walks around with a C he added onto his sweater in marker. This honestly has nothing to do with him. Seems like a good guy. Whatever.

This is being sold a false bill of goods. This is 100% on the GM.

 

[Schwang]

I wish the bum would've traded Captain Floateretty for Weber. I would've praised him for that. Subban can play left.

I don’t think he’s been as physical as he was advertised though.

 

[WinterLion]

Did anybody read the article in the Athletic? Wow, people seems to have a huge amount of respect for Weber as a person and a hockey player.

 

[WinterLion]

Right. He's a pretty good D.

Which is less than what he was traded for and less than what the team needs.

Do you understand? The club did not get better adding Weber. The worst part is that the ONE THING we could guarantee he would bring according to everyone from the GM to the owner to the media to people here was leadership. He is a former Captain. Mark Messier award. Total leader. Respected around the league. So what did Geoff Molson say was this club was missing?

Leadership.

How many more captains does this team need to acquire until they have enough leadership?

And again, this is not me blaming Shea. It's not like he walks around with a C he added onto his sweater in marker. This honestly has nothing to do with him. Seems like a good guy. Whatever.

This is being sold a false bill of goods. This is 100% on the GM.

Personally I think you are undervaluing Weber's impact as a hockey player and overvaluing Subban's. Of course we can never solve who's right, especially because Nashville has a much better team than we do in many many ways.

 

[Price is Wright]

Personally I think you are undervaluing Weber's impact as a hockey player and overvaluing Subban's. Of course we can never solve who's right, especially because Nashville has a much better team than we do in many many ways.

I will take Subban's worst nights over Weber's. When Subban is at his worst he usually makes a big mistake that cost the team a goal and he's winding up big shots that go nowhere and tried to carry the puck all by himself up the ice and went nowhere.

Meanwhile Weber on his worst nights is a pylon players are skating around and he's focused more on looking angry than getting the puck anywhere. He can be awful at screening his own goalie or covering the wrong player only to watch the puck go in, and has often made passes to a player that has no room to move so he coughed the puck up but the other guy gets the blame.

So on their worst night I'll go with Subban. On their best night I'll go with Subban. And on an average night I'll go with Subban. Call me a Homer, oh well.

But it's not about Subban anymore. It's not. It's about Weber in 2018 as a Hab and what he brings versus what the club needs. And the truth is, this team is going nowhere. They can draft Dahlin and sign Tavares and they still are not winning anything. You can trade Weber to any team without worrying about a NTC and his actual salary drops next season. If he's so well respected and all the top hockey people think the world of him, the return should be just what the club needs to have a future down the road. Because there's no future right now.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Personally I think you are undervaluing Weber's impact as a hockey player and overvaluing Subban's. Of course we can never solve who's right, especially because Nashville has a much better team than we do in many many ways.

sure maybe, so what impact does Weber has on the Habs ? ? ?

 

[Habs]

Weber is a great dman on any team, especially a cup contender.. he will never be appreciated on a team full of waiver wire pickups and grinders.

 

[417]

I will take Subban's worst nights over Weber's. When Subban is at his worst he usually makes a big mistake that cost the team a goal and he's winding up big shots that go nowhere and tried to carry the puck all by himself up the ice and went nowhere.

Meanwhile Weber on his worst nights is a pylon players are skating around and he's focused more on looking angry than getting the puck anywhere. He can be awful at screening his own goalie or covering the wrong player only to watch the puck go in, and has often made passes to a player that has no room to move so he coughed the puck up but the other guy gets the blame.

So on their worst night I'll go with Subban. On their best night I'll go with Subban. And on an average night I'll go with Subban. Call me a Homer, oh well.

But it's not about Subban anymore. It's not. It's about Weber in 2018 as a Hab and what he brings versus what the club needs. And the truth is, this team is going nowhere. They can draft Dahlin and sign Tavares and they still are not winning anything. You can trade Weber to any team without worrying about a NTC and his actual salary drops next season. If he's so well respected and all the top hockey people think the world of him, the return should be just what the club needs to have a future down the road. Because there's no future right now.

Dahlin & Tavares would significantly change the fortunes of this team.

Don't agree there at all.

Disclaimer: No, I do not think John Tavares is going to sign in Montreal or that the Habs are going to win the lottery.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

sure maybe, so what impact does Weber has on the Habs ? ? ?

He plays 25 minutes a game, kills penalties and can put up 40-50 points a year? Weber gets undervalued because this team sucks and Subban gets overvalued because he's on a good team. Weber hasn't even played the last 46 games yet has the 2nd most D points on the team and they've put up a pathetic 71% on the PK since then.

Saying Weber doesn't have an impact on this team would be like saying Subban didn't have an impact on the 2011-2012 and 2015-2016 Habs' teams. Both are excellent D and have done their jobs while they played here, the issue has been neither of them.. it has been management failing to fix the team around them.

 

[Price is Wright]

Dahlin & Tavares would significantly change the fortunes of this team.

Don't agree there at all.

Disclaimer: No, I do not think John Tavares is going to sign in Montreal or that the Habs are going to win the lottery.

Change their fortunes? Sure. Absolutely.

But it's still a team coached by Julien with JJ and Lacroix and Muller with Bergevin in charge, Alzner and Shaw signed for four more years, no 2C, their best winger has one more year then will look to nearly double his salary, and no guarantee on Price's health. Eric Crawford will still be pro scouting, and if Aaron Ekblad is any indication, it's doubtful Dahlin will be ready for 1LD duties next year. He might still take some time to handle top NHL competition, so he'd moreso be a 2LD/3LD so there would still be a need for a 1LD for the team. Maybe in 3 years he'll be a LD, in which case Weber will be 35 by then.

I don't know how anyone can look at this team and say hey, there's the foundation for a Stanley Cup team right here.

 

[417]

Change their fortunes? Sure. Absolutely.

But it's still a team coached by Julien with JJ and Lacroix and Muller with Bergevin in charge, Alzner and Shaw signed for four more years, no 2C, their best winger has one more year then will look to nearly double his salary, and no guarantee on Price's health. Eric Crawford will still be pro scouting, and if Aaron Ekblad is any indication, it's doubtful Dahlin will be ready for 1LD duties next year. He might still take some time to handle top NHL competition, so he'd moreso be a 2LD/3LD so there would still be a need for a 1LD for the team. Maybe in 3 years he'll be a LD, in which case Weber will be 35 by then.

I don't know how anyone can look at this team and say hey, there's the foundation for a Stanley Cup team right here.

Man...what the hell is going on with this place??

How did you get "Stanley Cup foundation" from me when I wrote that "Dahlin and Tavares would significantly change this teams fortunes".

There's a big difference between both...you somehow found the need to bridge that gap for me, and then pass it off as my own thought.

I mean, I did on PURPOSE to put a disclaimer in that post for God's sake lol

 

[Price is Wright]

Man...what the hell is going on with this place??

How did you get "Stanley Cup foundation" from me when I wrote that "Dahlin and Tavares would significantly change this teams fortunes".

There's a big difference between both...you somehow found the need to bridge that gap for me, and then pass it off as my own thought.

I mean, I did on PURPOSE to put a disclaimer in that post for God's sake lol

I thought you'd understand me saying, "They are not winning anything" meant, "They are not winning the Stanley Cup". If you thought I meant they were going to add Tavares and Dahlin and win 0 games the next season because they won't win anything as an organization ever again, not even a scratch ticket, then I mean... okay. The goal is the Cup. Not a 50 win season. Not a first round sweep. The Cup. Adding Tavares and Dahlin is not going to win this team anything we want, which is the Stanley Cup. Better?

 

[417]

I thought you'd understand me saying, "They are not winning anything" meant, "They are not winning the Stanley Cup". If you thought I meant they were going to add Tavares and Dahlin and win 0 games the next season because they won't win anything as an organization ever again, not even a scratch ticket, then I mean... okay. The goal is the Cup. Not a 50 win season. Not a first round sweep. The Cup. Adding Tavares and Dahlin is not going to win this team anything we want, which is the Stanley Cup. Better?

Well it's kinda silly to expect this team to go from bottom 5 to Cup champions in one offseason - I mean, were both not idiots, that didn't need to be said.

I said it would significantly change the teams fortunes...add a Dahlin and Tavares you knock off your 2 biggest needs and you haven't even touched your roster.

We had a good draft last year by all accounts, we've got another 8 or 9 picks in the top 100 this year...now you're starting to build/strengthen a foundation.

Of course, there would still be work left but adding Dahlin and Tavares would accelerate the process significantly, not sure you could argue otherwise.

 

[Price is Wright]

Well it's kinda silly to expect this team to go from bottom 5 to Cup champions in one offseason - I mean, were both not idiots, that didn't need to be said.

I said it would significantly change the teams fortunes...add a Dahlin and Tavares you knock off your 2 biggest needs and you haven't even touched your roster.

We had a good draft last year by all accounts, we've got another 8 or 9 picks in the top 100 this year...now you're starting to build/strengthen a foundation.

Of course, there would still be work left but adding Dahlin and Tavares would accelerate the process significantly, not sure you could argue otherwise.

Like I said, I agree it would change their fortunes from where they are now to somewhere better in the standings. But we saw in Edmonton what happens when you let an idiot control the destiny of a franchise. They got Connor McDavid and still can't figure it out. What gives you any confidence in Marc Bergevin and the organization he's built that he could be dealt that great of a hand and still not lose the pot?

But yeah, back to Weber.

 

[417]

Like I said, I agree it would change their fortunes from where they are now to somewhere better in the standings. But we saw in Edmonton what happens when you let an idiot control the destiny of a franchise. They got Connor McDavid and still can't figure it out. What gives you any confidence in Marc Bergevin and the organization he's built that he could be dealt that great of a hand and still not lose the pot?

But yeah, back to Weber.

Better to keep this thread about Weber...

95% of the active threads on this page are in some way, either directly or indirectly related to reminding everyone how bad of a GM he is lol.

Nothing I could say that I haven't already.

Cheers

 

[ECWHSWI]

He plays 25 minutes a game, kills penalties and can put up 40-50 points a year? Weber gets undervalued because this team sucks and Subban gets overvalued because he's on a good team. Weber hasn't even played the last 46 games yet has the 2nd most D points on the team and they've put up a pathetic 71% on the PK since then.

Saying Weber doesn't have an impact on this team would be like saying Subban didn't have an impact on the 2011-2012 and 2015-2016 Habs' teams. Both are excellent D and have done their jobs while they played here, the issue has been neither of them.. it has been management failing to fix the team around them.

the question was rather simple : what IMPACT (not stats, i m p a c t) does Weber has on the Habs ??

who said he does not ? ?