Sharks playoff grades

[Nighthock]

Everyone but Hertl and Couture:

 

[Sysreq]

These boards are way too hard on Labanc. You guys might not see it yet, but if Hertl is the new Jumbo Joe, then Labanc is our future Pavelski. The fact that he put up 40 points and a full season at 22 is insane. I promise you, he is gonna work with the same trainer Tierney did, and have a monster season next year. Watching him on the PP, you see just how good a player he can be. 1v1, in the corners, he doesn’t have the size yet. He will lose those battles until he adds some mass. I have no doubt that the organization makes that their top priority for him over the summer.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

These boards are way too hard on Labanc. You guys might not see it yet, but if Hertl is the new Jumbo Joe, then Labanc is our future Pavelski. The fact that he put up 40 points and a full season at 22 is insane. I promise you, he is gonna work with the same trainer Tierney did, and have a monster season next year. Watching him on the PP, you see just how good a player he can be. 1v1, in the corners, he doesn’t have the size yet. He will lose those battles until he adds some mass. I have no doubt that the organization makes that their top priority for him over the summer.

He had a bad playoff, right now that means he's worthless according to HF.

Also, Kane sucks and shouldn't be re-signed under any circumstance, and Deboer needs to be fired immediately.

 

[Kcoyote3]

These boards are way too hard on Labanc. You guys might not see it yet, but if Hertl is the new Jumbo Joe, then Labanc is our future Pavelski. The fact that he put up 40 points and a full season at 22 is insane. I promise you, he is gonna work with the same trainer Tierney did, and have a monster season next year. Watching him on the PP, you see just how good a player he can be. 1v1, in the corners, he doesn’t have the size yet. He will lose those battles until he adds some mass. I have no doubt that the organization makes that their top priority for him over the summer.

I really don't know what people were expecting from Labanc. The PP worked at near 20% during the VGK series, and 30% during the Anaheim series. He made two cross ice assists to Couture that were things of beauty. He scored a goal, and took 1 penalty the entire playoffs. He had 5 points, and was on the ice for exactly 3 goals against the whole of the playoffs, one of those on the PK.

He fumbled the puck and made poor decisions at even strength, but nothing that was catastrophic.

Doesn't matter though. If he gets top 6/top 9 minutes next year he'll score north of 40 points and people will still complain about him not doing enough. Or he'll get bottom 6 minutes and score 20-30 points and people will say he's shit and needs to be traded.

 

[NorthernShark]

This series just made me realize this is the team of the future all star, sharks legend, Tomas Hertl. Dude was a monster and played his god damn heart out.

 

[Coily]

Tierney gets put on academic probation for not even showing up to games. That's two years in a row where he's done nothing. Time to move on from him.

Hertl probably just earned himself a huge pay increase from those play-offs.

 

[Nighthock]

The issue with Tierney is after being put on the top line a few times all of a sudden he thinks he's Joe Thornton Jr. If he sticks to his bottom 6 role and PKing, he's fine. Needs to bulk up though... he's pushed off the puck and loses battles waaayyy too often.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I really don't know what people were expecting from Labanc. The PP worked at near 20% during the VGK series, and 30% during the Anaheim series. He made two cross ice assists to Couture that were things of beauty. He scored a goal, and took 1 penalty the entire playoffs. He had 5 points, and was on the ice for exactly 3 goals against the whole of the playoffs, one of those on the PK.

He fumbled the puck and made poor decisions at even strength, but nothing that was catastrophic.

Doesn't matter though. If he gets top 6/top 9 minutes next year he'll score north of 40 points and people will still complain about him not doing enough. Or he'll get bottom 6 minutes and score 20-30 points and people will say he's **** and needs to be traded.

He wasn’t that bad honestly but given our expectations for the 3rd line going into the playoffs, he was a bit disappointing.

LaBanc was specifically the weak link on the PP and he was on the ice for more goals against than goals for at 5V5.

Tierney gets put on academic probation for not even showing up to games. That's two years in a row where he's done nothing. Time to move on from him.

Hertl probably just earned himself a huge pay increase from those play-offs.

Tierney is the one that I am really disappointed with on that 3rd line. Imagine if we had Thornton in his place? Likely a different series all together.

 

[Alaskanice]

Since this is a team, I’m giving them a B+.
They did what many thought they wouldn’t after losing Marleau, they found goals from many players. They also got goal contributions from the young guys, which everyone clamors about. They integrated a couple of defenseman and made good trades and ended up in the playoffs.
We beat the snot out of the Ducks, in a sweep no less and gave Las Vegas a far superior series than the Kings did.
There is a really good team here. Young players are getting better, these games will be invaluable to their growth.
Go Sharks!!

 

[OrrNumber4]

Their first line might be no fluke, but neither is Crosby, neither is McDavid, etc.; Vlasic gets paid far more than any other defenseman of his scoring ability and he gets paid that because of his ability to shut down top players. Had Vlasic been able to shut down William Karlsson’s line the way that he has historically been able to shut down the NHL’s true elites, we probably win games 2-4, giving us a 3-1 lead going into game 5.



If he really dies after 6 games of being leaned on then he sure as hell isnt worth his contract.

The Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault line had 9 goals. Just those 3 players. If you consider goals where a different player scored but two players from that line had an assist, they had 13. That accounts for more than half of Vegas’ scoring. Without those guys scoring goals, Vegas would have had 13 goals in this entire series. Without goals that were directly assisted by two thirds of that line, Vegas would have had 9 goals in this entire series.

That is unacceptable for one line to completely torch us like that when we spend >$7M on Vlasic and almost $7M on Jones. Vlasic and Jones cost us this series. You pay those guys that much money and you expect to be able to deploy them in a certain manner that doesn’t allow this to happen.

Vlasic was on the ice for 2 goals for and 9 goals against. Burns was on the ice for 8 goals for and 12 goals against. Jones got pulled as many times as he had a save percentage that was equal to 90% or higher. The Sharks scored over 2 goals per game in this series. The Sharks never lost a series in the Nabokov era where they averaged over 2 goals per game. The defense and goaltending is a problem. Neither of these guys deserve a B or better.

Very well said. I am a little surprised at the high grades Vlasic is receiving. He made his share of mistakes, and as he frequently is, was negligible offensively. All this to a defenseman getting paid 7 million with term.

Jones at least had the stellar Anaheim series, and Burns had a handful of dominant games (though overall, I am happy with neither's performance).

Yeah, I agree with the majority of this. The defense completely fell apart late in the season.

Realistically, this team peaked as a fringe Cup Contender around game 30. Joe Thornton had just begun to find his game on a line with Meier and Pavelski and with some improvements from those players, we could have been looking at another elite first line; all of them were scoring close to that rate. We were at the very bottom of the NHL in goals against, despite Jones, Burns, and Vlasic not playing up to their standards or their contracts. Dillon, Heed, and Ryan were all fantastic for those 25 games and were a big part of why we did so well defensively.

We traded for Kane, went on a tear against a bunch of non-playoff teams, and suddenly everybody thought that we looked the best we had all season. We really didn’t. I felt more confident in this team around game 25 of the regular season than I did in the playoffs. We all got caught up in the excitement of the Sharks dominating all of those non-playoff teams and then the excitement of the Sharks dominating a Ducks team that didn’t deserve to make the playoffs.

Dumbass DeBoer got caught up in the same excitement too when Burns looked marginally better with Paul Martin on his left flank in a game against Vancouver and decided that Burns needed Paul Martin. Yes, we all said that maybe Burns is best with Martin, but we are also HFBoards posters; if an NHL coach made the same dumb, inexcusable mistake as we did, it’s a lot more of a problem.

However, with all of that said...Burns, Vlasic, and Jones all get paid a lot. They make over $20M combined and when you spend over 1/4 of the cap on 2 defenseman and a goalie, they need to be better than they were in this series; regardless of deployment. None of those players deserve better than a C for their performance in the playoffs.

The first part I think is you being a little reactionarily pessimistic. You are being too uncharitable and harsh with your evaluations.

The bolded part I mostly agree with, and it has been my complaint regarding the Sharks's star players for a long time.

One thing I was thinking about was how we've all criticized Nabokov, yet Nabokov never lost a series where the Sharks averaged more than 2 goals/game. The same can't be said about Niemi or now Jones.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Very well said. I am a little surprised at the high grades Vlasic is receiving. He made his share of mistakes, and as he frequently is, was negligible offensively. All this to a defenseman getting paid 7 million with term.

Jones at least had the stellar Anaheim series, and Burns had a handful of dominant games (though overall, I am happy with neither's performance).



The first part I think is you being a little reactionarily pessimistic. You are being too uncharitable and harsh with your evaluations.

The bolded part I mostly agree with, and it has been my complaint regarding the Sharks's star players for a long time.

One thing I was thinking about was how we've all criticized Nabokov, yet Nabokov never lost a series where the Sharks averaged more than 2 goals/game. The same can't be said about Niemi or now Jones.

I was saying the same thing about Nabokov, maybe it was in a different thread. Technically, we scored 14 goals in 6 games against Edmonton last year, but half of those came in one game, so I'd hardly blame Jones for that series. The Oilers actually only averaged 2 goals per game and won that series.

I recall you and I talking, around game 30, about how this team might be a fringe contender. You agreed and cited the fact that it felt like they had been playing better every game. Do you not feel like the team was likely at its best around the 30 game mark when they had Tim Heed and Joakim Ryan in the lineup? I'm not saying that last night's team sucked. I'm saying that the team around the 30 game mark with Tim Heed and Joakim Ryan in the lineup was a little bit better. The advanced stats would agree with that.

 

[Dicdonya]

A) Hertl, Cooch- Hertl looked more dominant, but Cooch lead the team in scoring, and proved once again he is a playoff performer. Neither are A+ for me, because Cooch was not dominant, just very good, and Hertl left too many points off the board despite his awesome play, there is still room for improvement. To me an A+ indicates essentially perfection.
A-) Sorensen- Great playoffs from him, hope it wasnt a complete fluke, and we can expect a very useful bottom 6 player next year.

B+) Fehr
B) Pavs- We needed him to be an A, but he wasnt, and dragging two injured linemates around probably didnt help.
B-) Dillon, Demelo- They were +9 and I dont remember a single game deciding goal they eff'ed up to allow. For a third pairing, Im ok with that.

C) Boedker, Meier, Donskoi, Kane, Jones, Ryan, Goodrow, Vlassic, Braun. Deboer. Needed some of these guys to be better, but none of them were aweful, therefore average grade.

D) Karlsson, Labanc. Neither were good, but Karlsson actually wound up with 3 points, and didnt do anything noticeably bad, just his usual useless self. Labanc played like an F, but managed a couple important plays, and 5 points so just barely gets above an F for me.

F) Tierney, Burns, Martin- Martin was terrible, expected ,but true. Teirney was utterly useless, and our third line leading up to the playoffs was a massive strength. Part of the blame is on Labanc, but teirney wet the bed these playoffs, and we needed his line to be a difference maker with our top 6 injured heavily. Burns played like dog crap. Provided beer league defense, and minor league offense these playoffs.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I was saying the same thing about Nabokov, maybe it was in a different thread. Technically, we scored 14 goals in 6 games against Edmonton last year, but half of those came in one game, so I'd hardly blame Jones for that series. The Oilers actually only averaged 2 goals per game and won that series.

I recall you and I talking, around game 30, about how this team might be a fringe contender. You agreed and cited the fact that it felt like they had been playing better every game. Do you not feel like the team was likely at its best around the 30 game mark when they had Tim Heed and Joakim Ryan in the lineup? I'm not saying that last night's team sucked. I'm saying that the team around the 30 game mark with Tim Heed and Joakim Ryan in the lineup was a little bit better. The advanced stats would agree with that.

I remember saying that the team was of a sort where maybe an acquisition like Kane could take them over the top; similar to the 2012 Kings and Carter.

The whole team, including Thornton, was looking rested and healthy.

But players didn't play to expectations. Too many passengers. I don't think that spurt of good play around the 30-game mark had so much to do with Heed and Ryan in the lineup as it did having a healthyish Joe Thornton and a team that was more or less locked in.

 

[Juxtaposer]

It’s wild how many excuses Vlasic gets for poor play. I don’t think he was any better than Burns, but Burns is evicerated and Vlasic gets a B across the board.

I’d much, much rather trade Vlasic than Burns.

 

[Sharksfan83]

Vlasic and Jones cost us this series

We got shut out in 2 out of 6 games. So we had to win 4 of the remaining 5 game series. It's not entirely on the defense.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

We got shut out in 2 out of 6 games. So we had to win 4 of the remaining 5 game series. It's not entirely on the defense.

And we had at least 3 goals in every other game. The team could have won games 2-5 easily if those guys played at their 2016 standard and they are paid to play at that standard.

 

[Sharksfan83]

And we had at least 3 goals in every other game. The team could have won games 2-5 easily if those guys played at their 2016 standard and they are paid to play at that standard.

I did not say they were good, I'm just saying that the offense was stale and that it wasn't just two guys that cost us the series. Our captain had 1 goal and was -5 in the series. Put up a goal or two in game 6 and the series is still going today.

Game 5 we score in the 10th minute of the 3rd period.
Game 3 we score in the 7th minute of the 3rd period after an early PP goal. Our offense only warmed up late in the games.

 

[Bizz]

It’s wild how many excuses Vlasic gets for poor play. I don’t think he was any better than Burns, but Burns is evicerated and Vlasic gets a B across the board.

I’d much, much rather trade Vlasic than Burns.

Vlasic was fine given that he had to babysit Braun, who went full pylon and kept losing his man on many occasions which led to a handful of goals against.

 

[Sharksfan83]

In the 4 games that we scored goals, Jones was 0.913. Not great, but not desperately bad either. (mind my maths)

 

[Sharks96]

These grades take into account the entire playoffs, but the Vegas series is weighed more heavily because my god Anaheim was awful.

Hertl A+ He was great

Couture A- Played pretty well, benefited from playing with Hertl though.

Boedker B Like Couture, he benefited from playing with Hertl, but he was moving his feet, and did a pretty good job.

Vlasic C (because JTR says so) Mostly for surviving insane deployment and being overextended

Sorensen B Did a lot of good things, but disappeared for games

Ryan B (inc) Was the Sharks best defenseman in game 6 and played the least.

Meier B- Did some good things, but also is prone to some awful turnovers. Lots of potential, just needs to keep developing.

Donskoi B- Injured, but still has so much ability

Fehr - C Really a non factor in the Vegas series

Pavelski - C Too slow, didn't bring much to the games. He's not even deflecting pucks anymore. It's all attempted high tips

Braun - C Overmatched and worn to shreds

Dillon - C Dragged down by his partner, but was still decent

Kane - C Injured, was rendered ineffective by his body

Jones - C So bad against Vegas

Labanc - C- Total non factor, looked scared on the power play, takes too long to shoot. All correctable, he's just gotta get quicker.

Karlsson C- He played, I think.

Burns - D Sloppy in ever aspect, and too worn out from overuse to have any energy on the PP or defensively

Demelo - F Not good enough for the NHL, may not be good enough for the AHL. His passes and shots are weak, he can't break the puck out, he gets pushed around defensively, has minimal offensive abilities. He needs to go.

Martin - F Should have never received a grade, the NHL game has passed him by, and it was sad to watch him be exposed time and time again.

Tierney - F He managed two assists, both on the powerplay, one of which was on the last goal of the game, in garbage time, of an 8-1 victory. I do not think he's the answer at 3C, and I think he should be traded.

Did DeMelo chirp you on Twitter or something?

 

[Lebanezer]

Did DeMelo chirp you on Twitter or something?

Hah, no. He’s just not very good.

 

[Sharks96]

Hah, no. He’s just not very good.

Is 20 points in 62 games and playing the least amount out of any of the d not very good? Is leading the team in plus minus for the playoffs not very good?

 

[CaptainShark]

Is 20 points in 62 games and playing the least amount out of any of the d not very good? Is leading the team in plus minus for the playoffs not very good?

Basic stats won’t take you very far analyzing a player...

 

[Juxtaposer]

Vlasic was fine given that he had to babysit Braun, who went full pylon and kept losing his man on many occasions which led to a handful of goals against.

There’s another one: blaming Braun whenever that pairing does poorly.

 

[Dicdonya]

Vlasic was on the ice for 2 goals for and 9 goals against. Burns was on the ice for 8 goals for and 12 goals against. Jones got pulled as many times as he had a save percentage that was equal to 90% or higher. The Sharks scored over 2 goals per game in this series. The Sharks never lost a series in the Nabokov era where they averaged over 2 goals per game. The defense and goaltending is a problem. Neither of these guys deserve a B or better.

Where are you getting those stats for Burns and Vlassic?? Or like what is "on the ice for" you are basing this on.

Naturalstattrick shows:

5v5- GF GA ES/ GF GA All Situations/ GF GA
Vlassic- 5 - 4 / 6 - 6 / 8-11
Burns- 6 - 8/ 7 - 11/ 14-14

So wildly different for Vlassic, but similar for Burns at ES.

It’s wild how many excuses Vlasic gets for poor play. I don’t think he was any better than Burns, but Burns is evicerated and Vlasic gets a B across the board.

I’d much, much rather trade Vlasic than Burns.

I agree Vlassic doesn't deserve an A or B, but for what was expected of them both, Vlassic did his job better than Burns did.

Burns barely outproduced Vlassic at ES/60, while playing infinitely worse defense.

I might even agree with you to trade Vlassic over Burns, but that isn't an argument for them having played equally good/bad these playoffs.

ps.- You posted again while I was writing this. Vlassic has significantly better stats away from Braun then with him. So I dont know that mocking, or being facetious towards a poster for saying Braun might be hurting that pairing is really warranted. Might be quite an oversimplification, but not some far out theory worthy of derision.