Sharks' Playoff Corsi

[hohosaregood]

At least he doesn't tap his stick anymore

 

[Maladroit]

Doug Wilson saying "we don't get past St. Louis without Tierney" is one of his most baffling quotes ever. Tierney had three points in that series - one of them was an empty net goal and another came at the end of a 6-3 blowout loss. Tierney has been completely useless his entire playoff career.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Doug Wilson saying "we don't get past St. Louis without Tierney" is one of his most baffling quotes ever. Tierney had three points in that series - one of them was an empty net goal and another came at the end of a 6-3 blowout loss. Tierney has been completely useless his entire playoff career.

I mostly agree, but to be fair that empty-net goal was probably the most memorable play of the whole series. It was one of the best ENG I’ve ever seen.

 

[Hinterland]

You never specified anything about what LaBanc’s position had to do with the chart.

I wouldn’t truly call him hot garbage either. Yeah, he was mostly ineffective at ES, but he had a few big points on plays that were big goals. That pass to Couture in 2OT was Thornton esque.

Corsi usually only includes ES so that chart probably doesn't include PP's. And Labanc wasn't just ineffective...he was bad. That 3rd line was terribly bad and it surely wasn't Timo Meiers fault. He did what he could and was much better when with Pavelski (who was a different player with Meier, too). Tierney was invisible and Labanc was a turnover machine. He also got destroyed on a regular basis. Was always standing around waiting to get hit written "TARGET" all over him. Seriously. I don't know whether it was effort or conditioning but he played at AHL level at best. Easily the worst Sharks forward. He probably has the best hands of the whole team so he's always gonna make a few good plays...particularly on the PP. But with Labanc there's really not between. If he's not sharp then he's terrible. A very frustrating player to watch. So much talent but making very little with it. Big offseason ahead of him. He has to hit the gym hard and learn how to escape hits and play against the puck. He's 22 and his talent status won't last forever. He can still improve later but if he wants to establish himself as a top6 forward it's not gonna be easy after next season.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Corsi usually only includes ES so that chart probably doesn't include PP's. And Labanc wasn't just ineffective...he was bad. That 3rd line was terribly bad and it surely wasn't Timo Meiers fault. He did what he could and was much better when with Pavelski (who was a different player with Meier, too). Tierney was invisible and Labanc was a turnover machine. He also got destroyed on a regular basis. Was always standing around waiting to get hit written "TARGET" all over him. Seriously. I don't know whether it was effort or conditioning but he played at AHL level at best. Easily the worst Sharks forward. He probably has the best hands of the whole team so he's always gonna make a few good plays...particularly on the PP. But with Labanc there's really not between. If he's not sharp then he's terrible. A very frustrating player to watch. So much talent but making very little with it. Big offseason ahead of him. He has to hit the gym hard and learn how to escape hits and play against the puck. He's 22 and his talent status won't last forever. He can still improve later but if he wants to establish himself as a top6 forward it's not gonna be easy after next season.

Nobody is here saying that LaBanc went god mode in the playoffs but you’re being too hard on him. AHL level is not accurate by any means and he took a few big hits to make a play and always bounced right back up. You can’t call him terrible and say “he’s always gonna make a few plays” when pretty much everybody on this team has had a playoff run where they looked terrible and didn’t score at all. Pavelski, Couture, Thornton, and Burns have all been completely invisible in various playoff series and not putting up points in that time frame. It’s a credit to LaBanc that he found a way to produce in big moments while clearly struggling and playing with the worst center on the team.

And yes, nobody thinks it was Timo Meier’s fault. Meier definitely should have been on the first line.

 

[Hinterland]

Nobody is here saying that LaBanc went god mode in the playoffs but you’re being too hard on him. AHL level is not accurate by any means and he took a few big hits to make a play and always bounced right back up. You can’t call him terrible and say “he’s always gonna make a few plays” when pretty much everybody on this team has had a playoff run where they looked terrible and didn’t score at all. Pavelski, Couture, Thornton, and Burns have all been completely invisible in various playoff series and not putting up points in that time frame. It’s a credit to LaBanc that he found a way to produce in big moments while clearly struggling and playing with the worst center on the team.

And yes, nobody thinks it was Timo Meier’s fault. Meier definitely should have been on the first line.

I don't think I am. There are not many hockey players worldwide as skilled as he is. Yet still he failed to even play some solid hockey during the playoffs. That is very disappointing and frustrating to watch. He's 22 and should have figured out things by now. Timo Meier is one year younger and a completely different player despite getting mono at the worst possible moment. If he didn't have those tools then I would be happy with Labancs development and say that he's probably gonna turn into a solid depth forward. But that surely shouldn't be his ambition. Guys with a similar game have played themselves out of the league because they weren't willing/able to adjust their game. So again. Big offseason ahead of him. If he plays another playoffs like that then surely he's gonna get scratched. Next season is gonna be important for Labanc and I hope he's gonna play the way he could.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't think I am. There are not many hockey players worldwide as skilled as he is. Yet still he failed to even play some solid hockey during the playoffs. That is very disappointing and frustrating to watch. He's 22 and should have figured out things by now. Timo Meier is one year younger and a completely different player despite getting mono at the worst possible moment. If he didn't have those tools then I would be happy with Labancs development and say that he's probably gonna turn into a solid depth forward. But that surely shouldn't be his ambition. Guys with a similar game have played themselves out of the league because they weren't willing/able to adjust their game. So again. Big offseason ahead of him. If he plays another playoffs like that then surely he's gonna get scratched. Next season is gonna be important for Labanc and I hope he's gonna play the way he could.

And yet he still managed to score 5 points in 10 games. That is more points and a higher PPG than:

Joe Thornton in 2014
Joe Pavelski in 2007, 2009 and 2012
Patrick Marleau in 2012
Logan Couture in 2014
Brent Burns in 2014

It is also more points and a higher PPG than every single one of those players had in their first career postseason.

It’s impressive when a guy can produce a good amount of relevant points at big moments even when his line is struggling at ES and he isn’t playing all that well. A lot of 22 year olds don’t have everythingthing figured out at this age.

 

[Maladroit]

I mostly agree, but to be fair that empty-net goal was probably the most memorable play of the whole series. It was one of the best ENG I’ve ever seen.

Yeah it was a cool wraparound empty netter, similar to the one Marchessault scored the other night against Winnipeg. Honestly that was just not a very memorable series in general lol

 

[Hinterland]

And yet he still managed to score 5 points in 10 games. That is more points and a higher PPG than:

Joe Thornton in 2014
Joe Pavelski in 2007, 2009 and 2012
Patrick Marleau in 2012
Logan Couture in 2014
Brent Burns in 2014

It is also more points and a higher PPG than every single one of those players had in their first career postseason.

Points don't matter if you're playing like a complete anchor. Kucherov has 16 points in 14 games but in how many games was he actually any good? Or even only "not terrible"? 2? 3? No surprise he's -3. His game against the puck has fallen off a cliff about mid season. Now he even started to turn over pucks almost non stop. If it wasn't the playoffs, Cooper probably would have scratched him long ago. Seriously. He has some good moments (mostly on the PP) purely because of his talent but he's surely not helping his team the way he's playing now. If you don't match the opponents intensity then they'll make you pay. If you make mistakes, they'll also make you pay.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Points don't matter if you're playing like a complete anchor. Kucherov has 16 points in 14 games but in how many games was he actually any good? Or even only "not terrible"? 2? 3? No surprise he's -3. His game against the puck has fallen off a cliff about mid season. Now he even started to turn over pucks almost non stop. If it wasn't the playoffs, Cooper probably would have scratched him long ago. Seriously. He has some good moments (mostly on the PP) purely because of his talent but he's surely not helping his team the way he's playing now. If you don't match the opponents intensity then they'll make you pay. If you make mistakes, they'll also make you pay.

No coach is ever going to scratch a PPG player no matter how poor they are away from the puck. I hope you were clamoring for us to scratch Burns when he was paired with Dillon this season because he was the absolute worst defensive player in the NHL and he wasn’t even scoring as much as Kucherov have been.

Kucherov’s 16 points in 14 games is a better PPG than Thornton has ever had in the playoffs and at a certain point, you need production. With Evgeni Nabokov as goaltender, the Sharks never lost a playoff series where they scored more than 2 goals per game. Pittsburgh only scored 15 goals in 6 games in the Stanley Cup Final, but the Sharks only scored 12 goals in 6 games. The Sharks were shut out twice in 2 of the last 3 series they played in and it might have been 3 in the Vegas series if not for LaBanc’s goal in game 5 against Vegas. Scoring has always dried up in the playoffs for the Sharks for both top players and depth players and it has always been our downfall. I’ll gladly take some “anchors” on my team if they’re paid and produce like Kucherov and LaBanc respectively do.

 

[Hinterland]

No coach is ever going to scratch a PPG player no matter how poor they are away from the puck. I hope you were clamoring for us to scratch Burns when he was paired with Dillon this season because he was the absolute worst defensive player in the NHL and he wasn’t even scoring as much as Kucherov have been.

Kucherov’s 16 points in 14 games is a better PPG than Thornton has ever had in the playoffs and at a certain point, you need production. With Evgeni Nabokov as goaltender, the Sharks never lost a playoff series where they scored more than 2 goals per game. Pittsburgh only scored 15 goals in 6 games in the Stanley Cup Final, but the Sharks only scored 12 goals in 6 games. The Sharks were shut out twice in 2 of the last 3 series they played in and it might have been 3 in the Vegas series if not for LaBanc’s goal in game 5 against Vegas. Scoring has always dried up in the playoffs for the Sharks for both top players and depth players and it has always been our downfall. I’ll gladly take some “anchors” on my team if they’re paid and produce like Kucherov and LaBanc respectively do.

Not during the playoffs, no. During the regular season? I'm not sure. Unless he's playing injured that is inexcusable. Seriously. He's playing like he doesn't give a damn and he's hurting his team. Kucherov is a real problem for Tampa the way he's playing now.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

He's 22 and should have figured out things by now..

Joe Pavelski had 1 career playoff point at age 22. Thornton averaged .5 PPG at age 22. Couture had 4 pts in 15 games in his first playoff chance.

Should they have dumped all of them?

 

[Hinterland]

Joe Pavelski had 1 career playoff point at age 22. Thornton averaged .5 PPG at age 22. Couture had 4 pts in 15 games in his first playoff chance.

Should they have dumped all of them?

I'm not sure why you're writing this. I never said that I'm unhappy with Labanc's point production...I also never said that he should get dumped.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Fair enough.

 

[Hinterland]

Fair enough.

It's really just his overall game I'm not happy with. It's okayish when he's sharp but the level drops significantly when he's not. I get that he will never be too much of a two way forward or physical force and he probably doesn't have to but at the same time I think he's kinda wasting his talent playing like that. He can do a lot more. Big offseason ahead of him. Lots of video and time in the gym could do wonders for him.