Sharks' Playoff Corsi

[TrappedInFullerton]

Twitter image of the players' Corsi during the playoffs.

If I'm reading it correctly:
Top right is players that when they were on the ice, gave up few shots and generated a lot of shots.
Top left, they gave up few shots and generated few shots.
Bottom right, they gave up a lot of shots and generated a lot of shots.
Bottom left, gave up a lot of shots, generated little shots.

Click to read more...

 

[Sleepy]

Would love to see the splits of Burns w/Martin vs Burns w/Ryan. Looks like the switch to Ryan dramatically increased the shots for, without really affecting shots against.

Which is surprising, since Martin had the entire Anaheim series.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Playoff Corsi doesn’t mean much; Pittsburgh won the Cup last year with something like a 47.5%.

 

[Used As A Shield]

I wonder how long burn's neck and back have been bothering him, his common backwards skating from the right point to center and releasing a quick wrister through traffic was seldom used this season compared to how well it was working prior season, was this injury related, or just getting away from what was working?

 

[Alwalys]

Interesting, this is kind of the NHL today, track meet hockey and all-transition is working because of what goalies had become due to the possession game.

 

[Bizz]

doesn't take rocket science to figure out that Justin Braun was a goddamn pylon the entire playoffs.

 

[Hinterland]

Twitter image of the players' Corsi during the playoffs.

If I'm reading it correctly:
Top right is players that when they were on the ice, gave up few shots and generated a lot of shots.
Top left, they gave up few shots and generated few shots.
Bottom right, they gave up a lot of shots and generated a lot of shots.
Bottom left, gave up a lot of shots, generated little shots.

Looking at where Labanc is on that chart tells you all you need to know. I mean I like the guy and he did some good stuff on the PP but man. He was brutal otherwise. Like beyond bad. Excellent hands but he really needs to toughen and smarten up. Labanc is great when he's sharp but he's absolutely rubbish when he's not. Easily the worst forward during playoffs.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Looking at where Labanc is on that chart tells you all you need to know. I mean I like the guy and he did some good stuff on the PP but man. He was brutal otherwise. Like beyond bad. Excellent hands but he really needs to toughen and smarten up. Labanc is great when he's sharp but he's absolutely rubbish when he's not. Easily the worst forward during playoffs.

LaBanc’s numbers aren’t bad at all here. His CF/60 is ~71.5 and his CA/60 is ~74.5. The team’s average CF/60 is ~60.25 and average CA/60 is ~65.75. So his CF/60 was about +11.25 relative to his team as a whole and his CA/60 is about -8.75 relative to his team as a whole. Which is about in line with his rel CF% of 1.6%.

Basically, when LaBanc was on the ice, the Sharks were slightly more likely to get the next shot attempt, but shot attempts occurred more often in both directions while he played. I agree that he had a poor playoff as a whole and as very disappointing, but these numbers don’t really deflect that.

 

[Hinterland]

LaBanc’s numbers aren’t bad at all here. His CF/60 is ~71.5 and his CA/60 is ~74.5. The team’s average CF/60 is ~60.25 and average CA/60 is ~65.75. So his CF/60 was about +11.25 relative to his team as a whole and his CA/60 is about -8.75 relative to his team as a whole. Which is about in line with his rel CF% of 1.6%.

Basically, when LaBanc was on the ice, the Sharks were slightly more likely to get the next shot attempt, but shot attempts occurred more often in both directions while he played. I agree that he had a poor playoff as a whole and as very disappointing, but these numbers don’t really deflect that.

Exactly what I wrote...no?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Exactly what I wrote...no?

Saying that these numbers tell you LaBanc was easily the worst forward during the playoffs is definitely not something I would agree with.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Labanc is 22. You have to expect some growing pains. The upside is clearly there.

I cannot imagine this fanbase handling a rebuild...

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Labanc is 22. You have to expect some growing pains. The upside is clearly there.

I cannot imagine this fanbase handling a rebuild...

Personally, after taking some time to digest things I’m not all that angry with LaBanc.

Despite the fact that he certainly underperformed in the playoffs, he had a few big assists that were fantastic, high skilled plays. There is something to be said for a player who can manage to produce in big moments of big games even when they are clearly not at their best.

I really think Tierney was the biggest problem with that line. And unlike LaBanc, he doesn’t really have the high end talent to score a decent amount of points while being a non-factor. I would be willing to move on from Tierney because while his effectiveness is in the top-90 for NHL centers, he lacks a lot of the traits that would make somebody an ideal #3C. For me, an ideal 3C is somebody that can step in at #2C if one of your top-two is injured, and can handle a matchup against a top tier center without getting creamed. If that #3C is only able to keep the events low and doesn’t create many scoring chances, but doesn’t really give up all that many either, I’m fine with that.

Tierney’s work on the PK is very good and his production is not bad but his ability to drive play at even strength leaves much to be desired. Going into our series against Vegas, I was optimistic that our 3rd line would be able to crush Vegas’ 3rd line, which had an anchor like Cody Eakin on it and an unstable set of wingers in one of Tuch/Perron and Tatar/Carpenter. Unfortunately, Vegas’ 3rd line was actually better than ours at even strength. I want a #3C who can take advantage of those matchups and can find a way not to get crushed when they have to face a Draisaitl type for half of a game. Tierney is clearly not that guy.

 

[tiburon12]

I appreciate this dude's use of retro logos

I would disagree that Labanc was the most disappointing player, though maybe it depends how high your expectations were. I thought boedker was the worst, especially in the Dzone (though again if your expectations were low, did he really disappoint?). In the Vegas series he was clearly trying to use his speed on wrap arounds (worked once or twice in generating a goal), but defensively he was just bad. Game 5 he was directly responsible for the Neal goal with 2 seconds left in the first. he gets the puck out, totally different game

 

[Juxtaposer]

The thing is, Tierney looked like he was about to become that guy for the first few months of the season. His skating had improved, he wasn’t getting pushed around, he was playing solid defense, he was more than a one-and-done in the offensive zone. But he really trailed off the last couple months of the season. I don’t know if it was that he couldn’t keep up his play physically for a full season, or if he had a nagging injury, or if that half season was just a tease and we’ll never see him play that well again. We can only trust that the Sharks will do their due diligence on this matter when making a decision about how to proceed with Tierney for the future.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The thing is, Tierney looked like he was about to become that guy for the first few months of the season. His skating had improved, he wasn’t getting pushed around, he was playing solid defense, he was more than a one-and-done in the offensive zone. But he really trailed off the last couple months of the season. I don’t know if it was that he couldn’t keep up his play physically for a full season, or if he had a nagging injury, or if that half season was just a tease and we’ll never see him play that well again. We can only trust that the Sharks will do their due diligence on this matter when making a decision about how to proceed with Tierney for the future.

I can agree with the majority of this but Tierney’s career has mostly been small flashes of brilliance surrounded by this weak, ineffective player that manages not to be a factor at even strength.

Doug Wilson made it pretty obvious in his exit interview that Tierney would be back and he even said that we wouldn’t make it past St. Louis in 2016 without him.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I can agree with the majority of this but Tierney’s career has mostly been small flashes of brilliance surrounded by this weak, ineffective player that manages not to be a factor at even strength.

Doug Wilson made it pretty obvious in his exit interview that Tierney would be back and he even said that we wouldn’t make it past St. Louis in 2016 without him.

What exactly did Wilson say? I didn’t watch any exit interviews.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I really think Tierney was the biggest problem with that line. And unlike LaBanc, he doesn’t really have the high end talent to score a decent amount of points while being a non-factor. I would be willing to move on from Tierney because while his effectiveness is in the top-90 for NHL centers, he lacks a lot of the traits that would make somebody an ideal #3C. For me, an ideal 3C is somebody that can step in at #2C if one of your top-two is injured, and can handle a matchup against a top tier center without getting creamed. If that #3C is only able to keep the events low and doesn’t create many scoring chances, but doesn’t really give up all that many either, I’m fine with that.

Tierney is a fairly well-rounded player. He's solid defensively, can make plays and score goals, has decent speed, and decent hands. He has great poise and calmness around the net, something that is missing from the Sharks. This year, he's even improved at faceoffs by the eye test. As always, he was a very good PKer. Given his deployment, his possession numbers are solid.

Before the season, I thought the Sharks would be in trouble if Tierney was off the fourth line. But he definitely outgrew that position. If you want a dominant #3C, you probably have to trade Tierney.

Tierney’s work on the PK is very good and his production is not bad but his ability to drive play at even strength leaves much to be desired. Going into our series against Vegas, I was optimistic that our 3rd line would be able to crush Vegas’ 3rd line, which had an anchor like Cody Eakin on it and an unstable set of wingers in one of Tuch/Perron and Tatar/Carpenter. Unfortunately, Vegas’ 3rd line was actually better than ours at even strength. I want a #3C who can take advantage of those matchups and can find a way not to get crushed when they have to face a Draisaitl type for half of a game. Tierney is clearly not that guy.

Tierney had a weak finish to the season, and was probably the #1 blight spot on the third line...but as you mentioned, he had to play with a struggling Labanc and a defense that just couldn't seem to move the puck. Depth players look so much better when your top players drive play, and the Sharks's top players largely failed to do that against Vegas (and frankly, for much of the last half of the season that seemed to be the case until Kane was acquired and the Sharks feasted on weaker teams).

Now, he's had a string of poor-to-average playoff series, but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt considering how much lenience the Sharks have had with other players. After all, he's making peanuts this season and that must factor into your expectations. I suspect that DW's comments praising Tierney and heralding his return are connected with the "prove it" contract DW gave to Tierney last year. Basically, he's validating Tierney's play.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

What exactly did Wilson say? I didn’t watch any exit interviews.

Basically that he had a good year and took big steps, and that he was a part of the youth movement. But he specifically went out of his way to say that “we don’t get past St. Louis in 2016 without Tierney’s play.” I know that GMs always hype up their players and exaggerate things, but the fact that the GM hit the media with that hot of a take tells me that Tierney is in San Jose’s long term plans.

Tierney is a fairly well-rounded player. He's solid defensively, can make plays and score goals, has decent speed, and decent hands. He has great poise and calmness around the net, something that is missing from the Sharks. This year, he's even improved at faceoffs by the eye test. As always, he was a very good PKer. Given his deployment, his possession numbers are solid.

Before the season, I thought the Sharks would be in trouble if Tierney was off the fourth line. But he definitely outgrew that position. If you want a dominant #3C, you probably have to trade Tierney.



Tierney had a weak finish to the season, and was probably the #1 blight spot on the third line...but as you mentioned, he had to play with a struggling Labanc and a defense that just couldn't seem to move the puck. Depth players look so much better when your top players drive play, and the Sharks's top players largely failed to do that against Vegas (and frankly, for much of the last half of the season that seemed to be the case until Kane was acquired and the Sharks feasted on weaker teams).

Now, he's had a string of poor-to-average playoff series, but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt considering how much lenience the Sharks have had with other players. After all, he's making peanuts this season and that must factor into your expectations. I suspect that DW's comments praising Tierney and heralding his return are connected with the "prove it" contract DW gave to Tierney last year. Basically, he's validating Tierney's play.

I agree that our top players need to be better; I can’t put enough blame on Pavelski and Vlasic for their performance against Vegas, while Burns and Jones were also not stellar.

I think the Sharks top players struggled for pretty much the entire season. Nobody carried he team at all at any point. Jones’ numbers at the end of the season are pretty close to being dead on league average, but he let us down in a lot of big games. Pavelski was pretty poor against playoff teams but I would probably still call him the season MVP because of how he stepped into that #1C and performed when Thornton went down. Burns was a tire fire defensively for pretty much all season and his goal scoring fell off a cliff. Vlasic’s offensive play was actually a bright spot but his defense also fell off a cliff. There are far more big games I can think back and say “wow, our top guys: Burns and Jones, they really let us down when we needed them most. We had a chance in that game, and if they just played at a league average level on these 2 goals against, we might have won.” than big games I can say “wow, Burns and Jones took that game over.” I don’t really think the performance of our top players has anything to do with Tierney’s poor late stretch because quite honestly, I think our top players were pretty bad all season.

I don’t really agree that Tierney is great defensively. At even strength, he gets caved in fairly often. His playoff possession metrics weren’t bad but his regular season metrics were actually pretty bad this year.

Personally, I would look to give whatever it takes to acquire a semi-dominant #1C and bump Thornton down to be that “dominant #3C” for the rest of his career. I would trade Tierney for help on the blue-line and hope that when Thornton retires, Norris, Gambrell, or another one of our prospects can claim that #3C spot. Tierney’s 40 points and PK work could get him traded for an asset out of his league. In general, when a mid-level star is traded, the ask tends to be “roster player, 1st round pick, and prospect that is 1st round level”. Perhaps Tierney fits the bill of a “roster player” in one of those scenarios.

 

[Hinterland]

Saying that these numbers tell you LaBanc was easily the worst forward during the playoffs is definitely not something I would agree with.

I didn't say that. I said that looking at Labanc's position there tells you all you need to know about this chart. It's total nonsense. Labanc was hot garbage during playoffs and everybody saw it.

 

[Barrie22]

So tierneys 3 points in 6 games were the most crucial 3 points of the series against the blues?

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Labanc was hot garbage during playoffs and everybody saw it.

disagree

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I didn't say that. I said that looking at Labanc's position there tells you all you need to know about this chart. It's total nonsense. Labanc was hot garbage during playoffs and everybody saw it.

You never specified anything about what LaBanc’s position had to do with the chart.

I wouldn’t truly call him hot garbage either. Yeah, he was mostly ineffective at ES, but he had a few big points on plays that were big goals. That pass to Couture in 2OT was Thornton esque.

 

[Barrie22]

You never specified anything about what LaBanc’s position had to do with the chart.

I wouldn’t truly call him hot garbage either. Yeah, he was mostly ineffective at ES, but he had a few big points on plays that were big goals. That pass to Couture in 2OT was Thornton esque.

That pass is done by every single player that is not a goon. And i would even say some goons can make that pass. It was a straight forward cross ice pass with no defenders in the way. Nor was it even a saucer pass.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

That pass is done by every single player that is not a goon. And i would even say some goons can make that pass. It was a straight forward cross ice pass with no defenders in the way. Nor was it even a saucer pass.

The head fake is what makes it brilliant. Goons don’t make passes that have goalies biting heavy and defenders literally falling over.

 

[Barrie22]

I would qoute but this site on the phone for the past 3 days has been wonky and won't let me all the time lol.

Agreed on the head fake its what he needs to do more often on the power play. Most of the critiques of lebanc on the power play is that he is way way to predictable (he is no where near thornton in passing he can't be predictable and then try to go cross ice through 2 or 3 defenders bodies and sticks) and some times rushes the play to much especially his no look bank passes back to the defense (this is what bothers me more then anything about him)